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BRIGGS
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4/8/2009  8:11 AM
Why does Toronto--in a tight game play ALL of it's players including it's project player and back ups --- 11 man rotation--the day they are eliminated and we don't.

Toronto was eliminated so they cut down on the starters minutes and used the full bench to see what guys have. How come the Knicks seem to be the only club in the nBA who doesnt do this?
This is the same shtty team that has not anything right in 9 years. Can they try to do one thing right? Wouldnt it be a little easier to explain a loss if we have D league guys and Eddy Curry getting burn--and low and behold maybe one of these guys is good?? I mean we do have the D league MVP on the roster--why the F is he not in the game?

Lets try as hard as we can to win every F game so we can draft worse. There is NO benefit of winning--if we win with the D leaguers in the game fine--if they show a game of 14-7 great--we want to see something. but the same 8-9 man tight rotation at this point--come on let it go play 11 guys and stop acting narcissistic and foolish. One more win only means we scked just a tad less.
RIP Crushalot😞
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Pharzeone
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4/8/2009  9:08 AM
Because Jared and Q are important to the future of this team. Don't ya get it. Jeffries brings his all around ****ty play and Q Rich brings garbage to the table. I guess Sims' BB IQ is not as high as Jeffries to warrant minutes.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
franco12
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4/8/2009  9:22 AM
I have kinda soured on MDA. We'll see if Courtney gets time tonight.
LivingLegend
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4/8/2009  9:53 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

Why does Toronto--in a tight game play ALL of it's players including it's project player and back ups --- 11 man rotation--the day they are eliminated and we don't.

Toronto was eliminated so they cut down on the starters minutes and used the full bench to see what guys have. How come the Knicks seem to be the only club in the nBA who doesnt do this?
This is the same shtty team that has not anything right in 9 years. Can they try to do one thing right? Wouldnt it be a little easier to explain a loss if we have D league guys and Eddy Curry getting burn--and low and behold maybe one of these guys is good?? I mean we do have the D league MVP on the roster--why the F is he not in the game?

Lets try as hard as we can to win every F game so we can draft worse. There is NO benefit of winning--if we win with the D leaguers in the game fine--if they show a game of 14-7 great--we want to see something. but the same 8-9 man tight rotation at this point--come on let it go play 11 guys and stop acting narcissistic and foolish. One more win only means we scked just a tad less.


I really believe it comes down to a mindset of never wanting the players to think you're giving up on a game.

This is similar to NBA coaches calling timeouts with 6 seconds left down 8 points.

You send the message that every basket, every minute, every second of the season is important.

Not sure I agree with it but it does seem to be the basis for what they do.

Once you allow a team to quit on a game or say a game doesn't count --- the fear is they will start deciding on there own what games are important or not.
mikesknicks
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4/8/2009  10:04 AM
That what happens when you bring in a winning coach to rebuilding team. Mike is not going to loss game on purpose like say a Mark Jackson would.
In the Knick of time. Knickal for Your thoughts.
BRIGGS
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4/8/2009  10:47 AM
Posted by mikesknicks:

That what happens when you bring in a winning coach to rebuilding team. Mike is not going to loss game on purpose like say a Mark Jackson would.

What will help the Knicks more?

Losing these last 4 games and very likely getting atleast a tie for the 7th draft position[which honestly gives us a very solid chance at a top 3 pick from 7] or possibly winning 4 and dropping back to 11th with no shot at a top 3 pick and a lower position in a shaky draft. Does the GM's have common sense here to say to mike--play these guys--let them play lets see what they have dont concentrate on score. If we win we win with them--fine. but to me its a no-brainer lose the last 4 and play the dleaguers good minutes to see what they have!
RIP Crushalot😞
Pharzeone
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4/8/2009  11:07 AM
MDA tried to justify what they are doing last night. Saying that these guys need to finish on a winning note for next season. Blah Blah. I now expect Walsh to try and back him up. My question how is this different than Isiah trying to win meaningless games last season? How is this different than Herb trying to the same in 2005?

The worst part is that Isiah actually tried to tank by giving younger players minutes. MDA is outright trying to win these meaningless games. Not giving time to Sims and Crawford is numbing. They aren't showing what they have in practice? What? You mean they will cause the Knicks to lose by more than 10 points? How revolting.

Trying to win as many as games when you don't have your own lotto pick makes sense. Not losing enough to ensure you have a better shot at a good lotto pick that you own is foolish. I agree Briggs, put this all on Walsh's shoulders because this is the point where the GM steps in and says shut it down. He should have done so the moment that the playoffs were realistic. This organization still shows signs of being dysfunctional and their still seems to be a void of leadership in management.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Finestrg
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4/8/2009  11:21 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

Why does Toronto--in a tight game play ALL of it's players including it's project player and back ups --- 11 man rotation--the day they are eliminated and we don't.

Toronto was eliminated so they cut down on the starters minutes and used the full bench to see what guys have. How come the Knicks seem to be the only club in the nBA who doesnt do this?
This is the same shtty team that has not anything right in 9 years. Can they try to do one thing right? Wouldnt it be a little easier to explain a loss if we have D league guys and Eddy Curry getting burn--and low and behold maybe one of these guys is good?? I mean we do have the D league MVP on the roster--why the F is he not in the game?

Lets try as hard as we can to win every F game so we can draft worse. There is NO benefit of winning--if we win with the D leaguers in the game fine--if they show a game of 14-7 great--we want to see something. but the same 8-9 man tight rotation at this point--come on let it go play 11 guys and stop acting narcissistic and foolish. One more win only means we scked just a tad less.

You're 100% right and it boggles my mind beyond belief. Right now the goal should be two-fold:

(1) Like you said, give Sims & Crawford some mins. & let's see if they can play in the NBA (we might have two of the better players to play in the D-League this season - let's find out what they can do for Christ's Sake) &

(2) Come up with a worse record than Golden State in order to get more ping pong balls -- GS just won 3 in a row and is only about 2 games worse than we are right now - If Nellie and co. want to rattle off some meaningless wins out there at this stage, hey that's their business... The Knicks on the other hand, should be TOTALLY FOCUSED on getting the best position right now.

That's it. Anything else is a complete mismanagement of the situation as far as I'm concerned.
martin
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4/8/2009  11:30 AM
have you guys even been watching Knicks games?

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/schedule.asp

It's a sea of red since February and 2-11 since the 3 game road trip extravaganza.
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BRIGGS
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4/8/2009  11:35 AM
Posted by martin:

have you guys even been watching Knicks games?

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/schedule.asp

It's a sea of red since February and 2-11 since the 3 game road trip extravaganza.

The bad part is they are legitimately trying to win

If the Knicks covet Ricky Rubio so much--they need to lose these last 4 games to even have a realistic shot.
RIP Crushalot😞
EwingsGlass
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4/8/2009  12:04 PM
So, you think that playing Sims over say, Jared Jeffries, would make us more or less likely to win the game? This is the same coach that gave Curry minutes. Finally, rather than put Sims and Crawford on display (when they are not under contract for next season), why not hold them back a bit in the hope that other teams will not get look at them vs NBA competition (while the Knicks can run them against their team in practice).

There are a lot of ways to look at this. I get the impression that knows what he is doing, both for himself and the organization. Same goes for Walsh.
You know I gonna spin wit it
nixluva
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4/8/2009  12:20 PM
MDA gets no respect here and it's really funny cuz along with MDA there the only ones who know about winning in recent history. Look I know his methods seem odd, but remember he's been doing this for a long time now and this is what he believes will be best for the team.
BRIGGS
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4/8/2009  12:38 PM
Posted by EwingsGlass:

So, you think that playing Sims over say, Jared Jeffries, would make us more or less likely to win the game? This is the same coach that gave Curry minutes. Finally, rather than put Sims and Crawford on display (when they are not under contract for next season), why not hold them back a bit in the hope that other teams will not get look at them vs NBA competition (while the Knicks can run them against their team in practice).

There are a lot of ways to look at this. I get the impression that knows what he is doing, both for himself and the organization. Same goes for Walsh.

Any team can pick up those players in three months. Practice is not the game. See what they have in the game. My bet is no one offers Sims a maximum contract playing 20 minutes in the last 4 games He knows what he is doing like burning 2mm on Roberson

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 04-08-2009 12:40 PM]
RIP Crushalot😞
franco12
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4/8/2009  1:11 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by EwingsGlass:

So, you think that playing Sims over say, Jared Jeffries, would make us more or less likely to win the game? This is the same coach that gave Curry minutes. Finally, rather than put Sims and Crawford on display (when they are not under contract for next season), why not hold them back a bit in the hope that other teams will not get look at them vs NBA competition (while the Knicks can run them against their team in practice).

There are a lot of ways to look at this. I get the impression that knows what he is doing, both for himself and the organization. Same goes for Walsh.

Any team can pick up those players in three months. Practice is not the game. See what they have in the game. My bet is no one offers Sims a maximum contract playing 20 minutes in the last 4 games He knows what he is doing like burning 2mm on Roberson

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 04-08-2009 12:40 PM]

Sims and Crawford could put up 30 each over the last four games, and most other execs would discount it because they did so on a losing team like ours. C'mon- get real.

The only reason might be they don't know the system- but throw them out and see what they look like against NBA players.
EwingsGlass
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4/8/2009  1:14 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by EwingsGlass:

So, you think that playing Sims over say, Jared Jeffries, would make us more or less likely to win the game? This is the same coach that gave Curry minutes. Finally, rather than put Sims and Crawford on display (when they are not under contract for next season), why not hold them back a bit in the hope that other teams will not get look at them vs NBA competition (while the Knicks can run them against their team in practice).

There are a lot of ways to look at this. I get the impression that knows what he is doing, both for himself and the organization. Same goes for Walsh.

Any team can pick up those players in three months. Practice is not the game. See what they have in the game. My bet is no one offers Sims a maximum contract playing 20 minutes in the last 4 games He knows what he is doing like burning 2mm on Roberson

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 04-08-2009 12:40 PM]

"Any team can pick up those players in three months." True, thats my point. Right now we have better information than any other team because we have seen him practice against NBA caliber players.


"Practice is not the game. See what they have in the game." No, practice is not the game. But what difference is there really between playing during garbage minutes and playing during practice? Are you suggesting you send a rookie who has been with the team less than 10 days, may not be in the shape that D'antoni requests and may be unfamiliar with the team sets out in a game so that you can see how he performs in that game?


"My bet is no one offers Sims a maximum contract playing 20 minutes in the last 4 games". Great prediction. But if he plays well, many other teams may offer him "a" contract. This point is just senseless.

"He knows what he is doing like burning 2mm on Roberson " Yeah, Roberson didn't work out. But Roberson's first year was at $790K and the second season was a team option. Your numbers are wrong.
Furthermore, in the grand scheme, Walsh has stated his plan and has stuck to his guns that he is planning for 2010. You could recite the $790k (less, if you prorate it for the amount of the season with the Knicks) as an error, but how many millions of salary cap has he cleared?

He overpaid for Duhon, now that he is breaking down, but how many people on this site were ready to anoint Duhon the 2010 starting pg?

You were offended when we traded Randolph and Crawford because our chances of making the playoffs diminished. We arguably took back less talent in both deals, but our team record is better than both the Warriors and Clippers (not by much though-- the West is a tougher conference, though).

I stand by my statement-- I think Walsh and D'antoni know what they are doing. We might see Sims tonight. If he does, I hope he has a great night. If he doesn't, I'd bet there was a reason.




You know I gonna spin wit it
TMS
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4/8/2009  1:40 PM
"u play to win the game"

ah memories.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
sebstar
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4/8/2009  4:49 PM
Posted by LivingLegend:



[quote]

I really believe it comes down to a mindset of never wanting the players to think you're giving up on a game.

This is similar to NBA coaches calling timeouts with 6 seconds left down 8 points.

You send the message that every basket, every minute, every second of the season is important.

Not sure I agree with it but it does seem to be the basis for what they do.

Once you allow a team to quit on a game or say a game doesn't count --- the fear is they will start deciding on there own what games are important or not.

People will ignore this post, but Legend really shut it down with this. Its easy to talk tank when you're behind a keyboard, but if D'Antoni were to make it obvious that he was tanking games, in such a fishbowl of a market, its going to open himself up to even more criticism. Not to mention that that sort of mindset is in violation of a proud, winning franchise.

Guys aren't paying hefty prices for tickets to see Lee and Nate play 10-15 minutes. Lottery positioning for responsible franchises is a delicate balance and it sucks that the Knicks are good enough to not get a high lottery pick, but bad enough to not seriously content for a playoff spot. Thats just our personnel right now. Donnie has enough assets to significantly improve our team. Lets concentrate on that, instead of whining about the Knicks not tanking enough.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
TMS
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4/8/2009  5:01 PM
the only people who would criticize this team for tanking games are u guys who think winning meaningless games when they're obviously not making the playoffs are more important for this team's future than targetting a better lottery slot... it's easy to hide behind a keyboard & say it's stupid to tank games when the outcome of the season is obvious but far harder to justify why winning a few games in the last week of the season will mean a damn bit of difference to this team's longterm improvement.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
sebstar
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4/8/2009  5:28 PM
nobody is saying that winning meaningless games makes us happy. You're just creating a strawman's argument. What I am saying is that you guys are ignoring the responsibilities of an NBA franchise in a corporate and professional environment. In addition, if beat writers, the media, executives, NBA officials, ext...catch wind of such a high profile organization obviously tanking games, there will be hell to pay and you know it.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
TMS
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4/8/2009  6:10 PM
the Boston Celtics lost a ton of games the year before they won a championship & the last time i checked they played in a major market... they got there by amassing top young talent & then trading them away for a top tier star player to put next to their own... yes, their star player Pierce was injured for much of the season but they still had some good young talent on their team, much like some of the young talent on this team, & they were given a full run rather than trading for veterans in a vain effort to try & make the playoffs when they damn well knew they didn't have the guns to get there... no one suspected them of purposely throwing games but there are ways to go about tanking w/o expecting guys to purposely miss shots & not play to win... don't tell me the Celtics felt a responsibility to their fanbase that year to field a playoff calibre team otherwise they would have made significant trades that season to try & turn their season around when Pierce went down... they decided to bite the bullet that season & then go after it hard the following season & they ended up winning a championship... i'm tired of the half ass approach to building a franchise the Knicks have taken since God knows when... if you're not gonna be a competitive team, then stop trying to pretend like you are one & BUILD for the future... play the youth, stop trading for veterans to try & fill gaps just to win a few meaningless games when u know u still suck... play the damn scrubs if u have to, i don't give a rat's behind... i'd rather suck like there's no tomorrow & collect top draft picks every year than just be good enough to end up w/a crappy lottery pick & miss out on the playoffs.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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