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If it was me--I would get Isiah Thomas arse down to the USC campus tomorrow
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BRIGGS
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3/22/2009  8:17 PM
and offer Demar Derozan our draft pick at 9 or 10 IF he DOES NOT work out for anyone else and goes into hiding like they did with Frye. Nike would be on board with this--he is a big draw name and he's going to be a star player in the NBA within 3 years and a very good exciting rotational player right away
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nyballer
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3/22/2009  8:20 PM
what if we get a lottery pick? i don't think we can make any promises until we know where we are picking, and i doubt he would be willing to agree, given there is a chance (albeit small) that we make the playoffs or get a lottery pick and take someone else.

that being said, i would love it if we could get him (would obviously take griffin and still probably harden ahead of him)
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TMS
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3/22/2009  8:24 PM
why would he agree to that when he'll more than likely be taken in the top 5?
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BRIGGS
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3/22/2009  9:12 PM
Posted by nyballer:

what if we get a lottery pick? i don't think we can make any promises until we know where we are picking, and i doubt he would be willing to agree, given there is a chance (albeit small) that we make the playoffs or get a lottery pick and take someone else.

that being said, i would love it if we could get him (would obviously take griffin and still probably harden ahead of him)

Not counting on getting the lottery top pick--if that happens we can try like heck to trade Lee and maybe future 1 in some kind of deal that would net us a pick high enough to get him.
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JohnWallace44
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3/22/2009  9:27 PM
Posted by TMS:

why would he agree to that when he'll more than likely be taken in the top 5?

Ahead of who?
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
Uptown
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3/22/2009  9:39 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:
Posted by TMS:

why would he agree to that when he'll more than likely be taken in the top 5?

Ahead of who?

When these pre-draft workouts begin, his workouts will be off the charts and these usually catapult players up in the draft.

As far as shooting guards are concerned, I'm definitely taking him over Harden.


TMS
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3/22/2009  9:47 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:
Posted by TMS:

why would he agree to that when he'll more than likely be taken in the top 5?

Ahead of who?

ahead of a lotta guys... he's a great looking prospect... what 5 other prospects in this draft do you think are gonna be taken before Derozan? IMO, the only ones i can see that are a lock to be taken before him are Griffin & perhaps Rubio, & i'm not even sure about Rubio... after those 2, i would say there's a fair chance that Thabeet & Jennings will be taken before Derozan, & that's not even a lock IMO... then u have maybe Harden as the other choice at the #5 slot, but if u ask me i would take Derozan... depending on how he works out for teams in the offseason, Derozan can easily slide up into the top 2 just after Griffin IMO.
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JohnWallace44
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3/22/2009  11:31 PM
There's a good article on ESPN about how the tourney can inflate or deflate player values artificially.

OKC's GM goes to Europe every March to avoid getting jaded by the March Madness.

Griffin - Rubio - Thabeet - Hill - Jennings are probably locks right?

Derozan looks good, don't get me wrong, but he's only been looking this good for a couple of games now.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
nyk4ever
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3/22/2009  11:33 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:

There's a good article on ESPN about how the tourney can inflate or deflate player values artificially.

OKC's GM goes to Europe every March to avoid getting jaded by the March Madness.

Griffin - Rubio - Thabeet - Hill - Jennings are probably locks right?

Derozan looks good, don't get me wrong, but he's only been looking this good for a couple of games now.

To me playing well in the tournament should not be a red flag but a true sign of what kind of player you are. I don't wanna draft some dude that crawls into his shell when the going gets tough *cough James Hardan cough* against top competition.

Guys like Derrick Rose and Russell Westbrook showed up in the tourney last year and they showed what kind of player they are when all the chips are down.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
TMS
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3/22/2009  11:34 PM
i dunno if Hill's an absolute lock for top 5, but definitely top 7... if he has a good showing in the Sweet 16 game & helps the team to get to the Elite 8 & beyond, then that can obviously change.

anyways, regardless if Derozan's taken top 5 or top 7, why would he agree to any guarantee from us that we'd take him at 9 & refuse workouts? that serves him no good at all.
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JohnWallace44
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3/23/2009  12:01 AM
Its a bit of a leap of faith to take Derozan or Holiday, but I'd be down with taking a player like that.

Where our franchise is now, I think taking a leap on a high upside guy is the right thing to do.

We should get a shot at a really good player at the 9 slot. I just don't want to hear Buddinger's name called. Other than that, I'm pretty much good with all of the players projected in our range.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
VDesai
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3/23/2009  12:14 AM
I think Harden is quite a bit ahead of DeRozan right now- but I like both players talent. I think DeRozan is just a bit further away from making a big impact on the NBA level. He has a chance of leveling off like a JR Smith.

As far as Harden- I am questioning him after he didn't come through in the last 3 games. But he did have very big games against tough tems earlier in the year and for much of the year he put up great all around numbers. I think he's top notch NBA 2nd banana- though not the superstar you build around.
TMS
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3/23/2009  12:33 AM
Posted by JohnWallace44:

Its a bit of a leap of faith to take Derozan or Holiday, but I'd be down with taking a player like that.

Where our franchise is now, I think taking a leap on a high upside guy is the right thing to do.

We should get a shot at a really good player at the 9 slot. I just don't want to hear Buddinger's name called. Other than that, I'm pretty much good with all of the players projected in our range.

definitely a leap of faith but i absolutely agree, i much rather go w/the player w/the higher upside potential than go w/a safe pick... i still think Budinger will be a good player in the NBA but i agree i wouldn't take him w/a #9 pick either... i think we'll have a pretty good shot at someone like Warren or Teague if we get the #9 pick.

[Edited by - TMS on 03-22-2009 9:35 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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3/23/2009  12:40 AM
Posted by VDesai:

I think Harden is quite a bit ahead of DeRozan right now- but I like both players talent. I think DeRozan is just a bit further away from making a big impact on the NBA level. He has a chance of leveling off like a JR Smith.

As far as Harden- I am questioning him after he didn't come through in the last 3 games. But he did have very big games against tough tems earlier in the year and for much of the year he put up great all around numbers. I think he's top notch NBA 2nd banana- though not the superstar you build around.

IMHO Derozan's got more upside potential than OJ Mayo... he's got the size & the athleticism at his position to really dominate at the NBA level someday... i don't think i can say the same for Harden... i agree, he's got more 2nd banana type upside, not franchise level.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Ira
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3/23/2009  6:53 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by VDesai:

I think Harden is quite a bit ahead of DeRozan right now- but I like both players talent. I think DeRozan is just a bit further away from making a big impact on the NBA level. He has a chance of leveling off like a JR Smith.

As far as Harden- I am questioning him after he didn't come through in the last 3 games. But he did have very big games against tough tems earlier in the year and for much of the year he put up great all around numbers. I think he's top notch NBA 2nd banana- though not the superstar you build around.

IMHO Derozan's got more upside potential than OJ Mayo... he's got the size & the athleticism at his position to really dominate at the NBA level someday... i don't think i can say the same for Harden... i agree, he's got more 2nd banana type upside, not franchise level.

My only concern with DeRozan is his outside shot - but that's an important concern. He's made six three pointers all season. While he has come along very nicely in most aspects of his game, he doesn't have anything approaching a good three point shot. This is a big weakness in a guard - particularly in the system we run.

In contrast, O J Mayo had a very good shot in college and does Harden. Harden is shooting twice what DeRozan has from behind the arc and has made almost ten times the number of three's this season than DeRozan has.

I have a great deal of respect for DeRozan's athleticism and general talent and I'm not against drafting him. I just bring this point about his outside shooting up because it is an important consideration.
BRIGGS
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3/23/2009  8:18 AM
where we are picking 10 or so--the players that you think you might want will all be gone--maybe including derozan. FORGET any big man that is developed--i.e Jordan Hill Aldrich Thabeet If Monroe comes out although I wouldnt pick him anyway. I wouldnt mind Tyreke Evans who looks like Stephon Jackson but we NEVER have a player like Derozan and I think the buck stops here. He's just a puppy and look what he did towards the end of the season. He is 6-7 220 with great athletic ability--showed a willingness to mix it up in terms of rebounding ---made an impact as a freshmen in big games--everyone he played in showed an improved jumpshot---he has the form now its a matter of practice there. He's an exciting player with great upside---no BOOS on this on in MSG for the first time in 10 years--not ONE person will disagree with the pick --it's a no brainer from every standpoint--if we get lucky enough to land pick 1 of course all bets are off but lets not bet on that one--were likely to be sitting at 10 which gives you just a scant chance to move up. Like to keep a plan in place--want to sell Derozan to NY---we will NOT regret it
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3/23/2009  8:30 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by JohnWallace44:

There's a good article on ESPN about how the tourney can inflate or deflate player values artificially.

OKC's GM goes to Europe every March to avoid getting jaded by the March Madness.

Griffin - Rubio - Thabeet - Hill - Jennings are probably locks right?

Derozan looks good, don't get me wrong, but he's only been looking this good for a couple of games now.

To me playing well in the tournament should not be a red flag but a true sign of what kind of player you are. I don't wanna draft some dude that crawls into his shell when the going gets tough *cough James Hardan cough* against top competition.

Guys like Derrick Rose and Russell Westbrook showed up in the tourney last year and they showed what kind of player they are when all the chips are down.
Wally

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Finestrg
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3/23/2009  8:49 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by JohnWallace44:

Its a bit of a leap of faith to take Derozan or Holiday, but I'd be down with taking a player like that.

Where our franchise is now, I think taking a leap on a high upside guy is the right thing to do.

We should get a shot at a really good player at the 9 slot. I just don't want to hear Buddinger's name called. Other than that, I'm pretty much good with all of the players projected in our range.

definitely a leap of faith but i absolutely agree, i much rather go w/the player w/the higher upside potential than go w/a safe pick... i still think Budinger will be a good player in the NBA but i agree i wouldn't take him w/a #9 pick either... i think we'll have a pretty good shot at someone like Warren or Teague if we get the #9 pick.

[Edited by - TMS on 03-22-2009 9:35 PM]

That's how I'm leaning right now. When thinking 'sure thing' in this draft, you gotta start with the surplus of above average PG talent (and to me we're gonna need to come up with a good PG for the future here sometime soon - Nate can do it part time but he's a scorer and better off looking for his own & Chris Duhon reuped at $6-7 mil. a pop just doesn't do it for me - he's a backup, we need to do better...). But hey, if DeRozan's still there at 9-10, like you guys I probably take him - you gotta love his athleticism and also the fact that he raised his game to another level down the stretch here when it counted most. I'm just a little leary about what we'll be getting eventually... He's a hard guy to quantify right now, there's really no way to be 100% sure on him at the moment, and with the Gallo pick officially a bust until further notice, however you want to slice it, we NEED a good player here - at least a contributor right off the bat with hopefully a chance for even more. That's why I was really rooting for USC to go a little further in the tournament - for the Knicks, the bigger the sample size of DeRozan in these pressure games the better but the Trojans are gone now so that's that. The tools and the potential's there for this kid, that's obvious. Will he wind up being a star like Vince Carter/Tracy McGrady, a slightly above average player with a decent career like Gerald Wilkins or an underachiever like Gerald Green or Qyntel Woods?? That's the major question with him right now...

Say Derozan's gone by the time we pick or they just decide they don't want to take on the risks that would come with drafting him (which I could understand, esp. after the Gallo pick), instead of packaging every last asset available to move up a few spots, I might be OK with them standing pat and taking the BA PG (Warren or Maynor would be huge upgrades over Chris Duhon at less than half the eventual cost, Jeff Teague as well though I'm concerned that he and his team played poorly the 2nd half of the season into the tournament) and then acquiring two additional late picks to amass more assets. You get the feeling James Dolan's previous GMs have scarred him and he's a little weary about spending money on this team if it's not a sure thing but Donnie should try to convince him that he needs about $5 mil. to acquire an additional pick or two and that it would be money well spent. Tough sell, again, after Donnie flopped with the Gallo pick, but nevertheless, he needs to be in there pitching this idea to Dolan. The more draft picks we can get our hands on the better in terms of reshaping this roster and making the team more attractive as a whole...

I gave you my guys that I think would help and have an immediate impact and help turn this franchise around and make the roster much for attractive to one of the 2010 FAs - Eric Maynor, Sam Young and either DuJuan Blair or Taj Gibson. I'd be ecstatic with that as our draft and I think it's doable w/o depleting our most important assets, provided they can get Dolan on board for the additional funds...

Some of these other names being talked about for the Knicks -- Stephen Curry, BJ Mullens, Cole Aldrich -- I just don't know about those guys man. There's a lot of uncertainty with some of these guys:
-- Will Curry really turn out to be the next Steve Nash as some have speculated or will he wind up being an undersized shooter with substandard PG skills, strength, speed and athleticism?
-- Will guys like BJ Mullens and Cole Aldrich pan out and be contributors at the next level or will they wind up turning into the next Sam Bowie? Aldrich destroyed Dayton yesterday but I also remember seeing him come up empty against good competition a few times this season...

[Edited by - finestrg on 03-23-2009 09:11 AM]
JohnWallace44
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3/23/2009  9:52 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

where we are picking 10 or so--the players that you think you might want will all be gone--maybe including derozan. FORGET any big man that is developed--i.e Jordan Hill Aldrich Thabeet If Monroe comes out although I wouldnt pick him anyway. I wouldnt mind Tyreke Evans who looks like Stephon Jackson but we NEVER have a player like Derozan and I think the buck stops here. He's just a puppy and look what he did towards the end of the season. He is 6-7 220 with great athletic ability--showed a willingness to mix it up in terms of rebounding ---made an impact as a freshmen in big games--everyone he played in showed an improved jumpshot---he has the form now its a matter of practice there. He's an exciting player with great upside---no BOOS on this on in MSG for the first time in 10 years--not ONE person will disagree with the pick --it's a no brainer from every standpoint--if we get lucky enough to land pick 1 of course all bets are off but lets not bet on that one--were likely to be sitting at 10 which gives you just a scant chance to move up. Like to keep a plan in place--want to sell Derozan to NY---we will NOT regret it

Nobody would question the pick, you're right.

Derozan, Holiday, Evans and T Williams will at the very least be good defenders.

Fine - I can see the Gerald Green comparisons for Derozan. That's probably the floor of what he can do though.

Another slick move would be to get Brackins with 10ish pick and buy a pick late to get Sanders. That would be a sweet pairing of an extremely talented offensive 4 and a 5 with gumby arms to block anything that comes down the lane.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
purple012870
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3/23/2009  9:59 AM
This is weird but he actually reminded me of Qyntel Woods in terms of his (on the court) style.
If it was me--I would get Isiah Thomas arse down to the USC campus tomorrow

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