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See how good Nate responds from his natural position?
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BRIGGS
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3/21/2009  10:02 PM
Unless something happens --like winning the draft lottery where we might want to acquire a second high pick--what is the basis for wanting to lose Nate as sixth man? I wish the coach had some kind of plan for end of game situations--he simply doesnt coach the last 2 minutes well. No discipline when you want and have the opportunity to get a good shot. We take very bad shots late in games and that also leads to other teams getting easy shots or being fouled. Dantoni has to improve in this area. You cannot be loosy goosy with 2 minutes to go.

As far as Nate--people want to give him away for nothing--well that would be a shame and a mistake. As a sixth ma--the coach has to realize when to pull back with him as well--I couldnt believe that he let Nate take the last 3 shots--they shouldve set up plays.
RIP Crushalot😞
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islesfan
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3/21/2009  10:12 PM
Do you want a 6th man or do you want to sign another starter, possibly an all star caliber starter?

That's the basis.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
JohnWallace44
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3/21/2009  10:12 PM
There were people open on those plays. Nate just didn't make the pass.

Who's saying we should give him away for nothing? If we turned Nate into a late first/early 2nd round pick that ended up being Christmas, and we'd drafted a serious PG early, wouldn't that lead to more efficient offense down the stretch of games?
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
sebstar
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3/21/2009  10:16 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:

There were people open on those plays. Nate just didn't make the pass.

Who's saying we should give him away for nothing? If we turned Nate into a late first/early 2nd round pick that ended up being Christmas, and we'd drafted a serious PG early, wouldn't that lead to more efficient offense down the stretch of games?

exactly his point, trading away a marketable, young player that is averaging 18pts per game, for a late first round pick or a second round pick (!!!!!) is giving him away for nothing.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
JohnWallace44
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3/21/2009  10:24 PM
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by JohnWallace44:

There were people open on those plays. Nate just didn't make the pass.

Who's saying we should give him away for nothing? If we turned Nate into a late first/early 2nd round pick that ended up being Christmas, and we'd drafted a serious PG early, wouldn't that lead to more efficient offense down the stretch of games?

exactly his point, trading away a marketable, young player that is averaging 18pts per game, for a late first round pick or a second round pick (!!!!!) is giving him away for nothing.

Lewis was traded for a 2nd round pick and they were given a trade exception. If we get trade exceptions for Lee and Nate, we might be able to clear Curry. That's a scenario I hadn't thought of before now.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
sebstar
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3/21/2009  10:28 PM
Oklahoma, then Seattle, was in full tear down mode. Lewis was definitely leaving. That said, just because they got ripped off, doesnt mean its cool for the Knicks to do it.

Knicks are not in a position to give away a rising talent like Nate. I dont subscribe to the theory that says we should. How are we going to attract big free agents if we are dumping talent for nothing?
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
JohnWallace44
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3/21/2009  10:39 PM
Seb, how good is Nate going to be? We're stuck here weather you like it or not. We can sign one Max player in 2010 and another at close to Max $ if we let Lee and Nate go.

If we can trade them for marginal picks and get exceptions, then you're talking about adding late picks like Lawson, Christmas, Flynn, Sanders, Vasquez, Johnson, players like that, and having a shot at getting rid of Jeffries or Curry, which is otherwise impossible, and then being able to turn that space into a 2nd Max player.

Plus, Curry and Jeffires are gone in 2011, so you could go out again and add players if you don't have Nate and Lee signed to long deals.

Nate is going to have a hard time going back to being a role player when we add big time players here. He's limited.

Lee's starting to show injury problems over the last couple of years. This seems like the perfect time to unload him.

If we were going to move forward with Lee and Nate, we had to use Marbs and Rose's contracts in trades at the deadline to do it to add serious players. That time has passed, so here we are. There's no going back.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
KNICKSdom
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3/21/2009  10:40 PM
Nate was doing fine. It is the refs that blew the calls on Nate. I mean he drove to the basket and they call offensive foul when he was the one getting fouled? wtf
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JohnWallace44
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3/21/2009  10:43 PM
Posted by KNICKSdom:

Nate was doing fine. It is the refs that blew the calls on Nate. I mean he drove to the basket and they call offensive foul when he was the one getting fouled? wtf

they just called out of bounds on that play, not offensive foul

What are we calling Nate's natural position now? He holds the ball so tight, its like he learned it from Tiki Barber, not Steve Nash.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
fishmike
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3/21/2009  11:11 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:

Seb, how good is Nate going to be? We're stuck here weather you like it or not. We can sign one Max player in 2010 and another at close to Max $ if we let Lee and Nate go.

If we can trade them for marginal picks and get exceptions, then you're talking about adding late picks like Lawson, Christmas, Flynn, Sanders, Vasquez, Johnson, players like that, and having a shot at getting rid of Jeffries or Curry, which is otherwise impossible, and then being able to turn that space into a 2nd Max player.

Plus, Curry and Jeffires are gone in 2011, so you could go out again and add players if you don't have Nate and Lee signed to long deals.

Nate is going to have a hard time going back to being a role player when we add big time players here. He's limited.

Lee's starting to show injury problems over the last couple of years. This seems like the perfect time to unload him.

If we were going to move forward with Lee and Nate, we had to use Marbs and Rose's contracts in trades at the deadline to do it to add serious players. That time has passed, so here we are. There's no going back.
can and will are two different stories. There is a such a thing as risk management here. You look at history the chance of signing one bigtime star FA is doubtfull. Two? Thats happened once in NBA history and it ended in disaster.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
islesfan
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3/22/2009  12:01 AM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by JohnWallace44:

Seb, how good is Nate going to be? We're stuck here weather you like it or not. We can sign one Max player in 2010 and another at close to Max $ if we let Lee and Nate go.

If we can trade them for marginal picks and get exceptions, then you're talking about adding late picks like Lawson, Christmas, Flynn, Sanders, Vasquez, Johnson, players like that, and having a shot at getting rid of Jeffries or Curry, which is otherwise impossible, and then being able to turn that space into a 2nd Max player.

Plus, Curry and Jeffires are gone in 2011, so you could go out again and add players if you don't have Nate and Lee signed to long deals.

Nate is going to have a hard time going back to being a role player when we add big time players here. He's limited.

Lee's starting to show injury problems over the last couple of years. This seems like the perfect time to unload him.

If we were going to move forward with Lee and Nate, we had to use Marbs and Rose's contracts in trades at the deadline to do it to add serious players. That time has passed, so here we are. There's no going back.
can and will are two different stories. There is a such a thing as risk management here. You look at history the chance of signing one bigtime star FA is doubtfull. Two? Thats happened once in NBA history and it ended in disaster.

How many times in NBA history has a championship team been built around a 6th man and a one dimensional rebounder?

That's like building a team around Starks and Oakley, who I think were enormously better than Nate and Lee, without giving yourself a chance to get a Ewing.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
BRIGGS
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3/22/2009  1:54 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by JohnWallace44:

Seb, how good is Nate going to be? We're stuck here weather you like it or not. We can sign one Max player in 2010 and another at close to Max $ if we let Lee and Nate go.

If we can trade them for marginal picks and get exceptions, then you're talking about adding late picks like Lawson, Christmas, Flynn, Sanders, Vasquez, Johnson, players like that, and having a shot at getting rid of Jeffries or Curry, which is otherwise impossible, and then being able to turn that space into a 2nd Max player.

Plus, Curry and Jeffires are gone in 2011, so you could go out again and add players if you don't have Nate and Lee signed to long deals.

Nate is going to have a hard time going back to being a role player when we add big time players here. He's limited.

Lee's starting to show injury problems over the last couple of years. This seems like the perfect time to unload him.

If we were going to move forward with Lee and Nate, we had to use Marbs and Rose's contracts in trades at the deadline to do it to add serious players. That time has passed, so here we are. There's no going back.
can and will are two different stories. There is a such a thing as risk management here. You look at history the chance of signing one bigtime star FA is doubtfull. Two? Thats happened once in NBA history and it ended in disaster.

How many times in NBA history has a championship team been built around a 6th man and a one dimensional rebounder?

That's like building a team around Starks and Oakley, who I think were enormously better than Nate and Lee, without giving yourself a chance to get a Ewing.

Who is building around a 6th man? It's a nice piece that its in place. If the absolute right deal came along I would consider any scenario. You simply want to relieve the team of Nate Robinson and I don't think we can be in the business of giving away good players. What free agent will want to come here with no supporting cast? Believe it or not a lot of NBA stars really like Nate--they have all mentioned him as a great player Kobe Lebron Wade. He's the best 6th man in the game--an impact player off the bench who can get his shot anytime and provides a tremendous spark of the bench that few teams have. Im not letting that walk or taking back the 27th pick in the draft. We dont have to pay him a max contract--he has earned a fair market value of slightly above an MLE or something like 5 years 37.5mm$--that isnt going to make or break free anything.
RIP Crushalot😞
Paladin55
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3/22/2009  5:07 AM
I just don't see why Nate can't be a part of the Knicks future.

It all comes down to how much $$ Nate wants and whether MDA thinks he can mold Nate into the kind of player who consistently makes the right decisions with the ball.


BTW- I think the comparison with Starks is interesting to look at but I don't think a conclusion can be made about who is the better player at this time. Starks also made some bonehead decisions and was inconsistent with his shot at times (some terrible FG % years), but he was a much better defensive player and had some decent assist totals during his career.

I wonder how Riley would have put up with Nate?
No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
nychamp
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3/22/2009  8:42 AM
Personally I favor keeping Nate at a reasonable price, but letting Lee walk. Only keep Lee at a very, very reasonable price. Between the two Nate is more of a unique talent, who I believe can still get smarter as he has each year. Lee is much more replaceable at lower money. If either somehow gets a bigger than reasonable offer, then we work out a sign and trade and let them go. But we should be slightly more willing to work to keep Nate around. Again, neither is the foundation, but at the right price they could fit in with our future plans.

Also, just mentioning Lee in the same sentence as Oakley makes me sick. Bite your tongue.
holfresh
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3/22/2009  9:24 AM

Nate isn't going anywhere....He is now poster(ed)on one of the biggest billboards in Times Square by Nike replacing LeBron....U think the Garden bosses are giving all that free ad now that Nate is playing well...I'm not sure about that...
Papabear
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3/22/2009  10:57 AM
Posted by JohnWallace44:

There were people open on those plays. Nate just didn't make the pass.

Who's saying we should give him away for nothing? If we turned Nate into a late first/early 2nd round pick that ended up being Christmas, and we'd drafted a serious PG early, wouldn't that lead to more efficient offense down the stretch of games?
Papabear Says
Until we get a big man who can defend and block shots, and also a defensive minded starting lineup, we ain't going nowhere. We must get it through our heads that no superstars are coming here. Now some of you are saying that we just give Nate away for a late first round or second round. Mentality like this is the reason why we always have a loosing record. Nate has value and even though some of you don't care and you just want him gone tells me one thing!!! We haven't learned a damn thing since the Patrick Ewing trade. We still have that sucker mentality to give talent away for nothing just as long as he is gone to satisfy you anger and don't give a damn about the damage it will cause down the road.
Then if the new person don't work out the way you want it to, we do the same thing all over again.

Papabear
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3/22/2009  12:17 PM
Posted by Papabear:
Posted by JohnWallace44:

There were people open on those plays. Nate just didn't make the pass.

Who's saying we should give him away for nothing? If we turned Nate into a late first/early 2nd round pick that ended up being Christmas, and we'd drafted a serious PG early, wouldn't that lead to more efficient offense down the stretch of games?
Papabear Says
Until we get a big man who can defend and block shots, and also a defensive minded starting lineup, we ain't going nowhere. We must get it through our heads that no superstars are coming here. Now some of you are saying that we just give Nate away for a late first round or second round. Mentality like this is the reason why we always have a loosing record. Nate has value and even though some of you don't care and you just want him gone tells me one thing!!! We haven't learned a damn thing since the Patrick Ewing trade. We still have that sucker mentality to give talent away for nothing just as long as he is gone to satisfy you anger and don't give a damn about the damage it will cause down the road.
Then if the new person don't work out the way you want it to, we do the same thing all over again.

This team needs defense and that is the reason they can not keep both Nate and Lee, they are liabilities on defense. This team as constructed isn't made for D'Antoni probably only Nate fits the system and Chandler fit the system. Curry I think can fit into the system because a center that is capable of producing and alegit one when he is producing, problem is Nate isn't a pg and is a sg and that creates problems on the defensive end. I would look at the Nets when they were winning the ECF as the model the team should follow. The Knicks need high flyers with skills. And concentrate on the defensive end of the floor. I think D'Antoni does emphasize defense but the players just aren't capable of executing on that end of the floor. Which leads me to say that the Knicks could really benefit by move Lee and Nate and try and get balance and speed players for them to implement an up tempo team with defensive capabilities.

There are certain type of player the Knicks really need to focus on and those type of players can excel in any type of tempo. Long athletic type of players that can run and get up and down the floor.
nyk4ever
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3/22/2009  12:58 PM
I'm just not interested in locking up role players before I lock up the franchise player.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
BRIGGS
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3/22/2009  1:45 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

I'm just not interested in locking up role players before I lock up the franchise player.

Right now Nate is a 20-4-4 guard. That is not a role player in the NBA
RIP Crushalot😞
nyk4ever
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3/22/2009  4:08 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by nyk4ever:

I'm just not interested in locking up role players before I lock up the franchise player.

Right now Nate is a 20-4-4 guard. That is not a role player in the NBA

In '04 Barbosa was 18/4/3.. he is the definition of a role player.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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