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Martice
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2/23/2009  11:18 PM
this is the second game in which Nate played a lot of the 1 and he happened to put in another great performance?

I said this at half time, when Nate is at the point he is a problem because most PG's can't stay with him at the top of the key.

Secondly, he can break down the defense with ease and create easy shots for his teammates.

When he is on, his shots are deadly accurate.

If Droopy Dawg (Duhon) wasn't so busy licking his hands instead of pushing the ball up, maybe we would be in better shape and not have to rely on the bench to get us back into and ultimately win us games. No I don't like Duhon as our PG. Can you tell?

Ummmm What did I forget?

Oh I know. Did anyone else see Duhon's body language tonight? It sucked. Also, it is plain to see that Duhon is a system PG. Thrives well within the system but flounders outside of it. When the system is working, he is fine but let it not be working and he becomes flustered and useless. Create his own shot? Not gonna happen often. Able to improvise? Not a lot. He is a product of his college coach. He is a Dukie and we all know they don't put out a lot of great pros because of the system they teach at Duke.

Now the Tar Heels are a different story...

Is it obvious
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KnicksSince88
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2/23/2009  11:19 PM
Nate is a better PG than Duhon even if hes not an ideal PG

And hes playing far more under control of late, look at the lack of turnovers over the last few weeks
VDesai
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2/23/2009  11:20 PM
Duhon has obvious limitations. Speed is one of them. He has played well this year, but we're seeing him wear down now and we're seeing how Nate makes a difference on the pace of the game. I thought for stretches last year Nate was playing a really capable point, and lately he's been terrific. With the exception of the 2nd Toronto game, lately he's making great decisions with the ball and has been making a lot of plays.
TMS
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2/23/2009  11:21 PM
Duhon's still the same guy that has the Knicks' record for most assists in a game right? just checking... carry on.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
VDesai
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2/23/2009  11:22 PM
That being said, I think Duhon is exactly the kind of PG you want to be splitting time with Nate, who I'm not sure you really want at point full time b/c of his size limitations and b/c you want him playing off guard to score the ball at times.
Martice
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2/23/2009  11:29 PM
Posted by VDesai:

That being said, I think Duhon is exactly the kind of PG you want to be splitting time with Nate, who I'm not sure you really want at point full time b/c of his size limitations and b/c you want him playing off guard to score the ball at times.

I can see where Duhon is useful. I understand that he facilitates the system the team wants to run. However, he is a HUGE liability on defense and even more so than Nate is. Nate may be short but he makes guys work aweful hard out there. Then these same guys have to go down and defend him. That alone will take some bite out of an offensive players game. Especially in the 4th quarter.

I doubt that you find anyone who would say that they would take Duhon over Nate for defensive reasons. So if you and I are choosing sides for a defensive team and Nate and Duhon are left, who do you think me and most of the planet is going to pick? Point blank, Duhon's D sucks monkey private parts!
KnicksSince88
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2/23/2009  11:29 PM
Posted by TMS:

Duhon's still the same guy that has the Knicks' record for most assists in a game right? just checking... carry on.

Duhon is also the same guy who is posting an efficiency rating of about 12 this year. Virtually every team in the NBA has a PG superior to Duhon or a kid with upside and a bigger ceiling than Duhon, with very very few exceptions

In addition to that, despite this awesome record setting superstud, our offense operates better when he is OFF the floor, and has all season

[Edited by - knickssince88 on 02-23-2009 11:33 PM]
BRIGGS
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2/23/2009  11:32 PM
Nate's game changed when he decided to move the ball to the basket more frequently. He scores nearly at will on the drive and also sets himself up for rebounding which he is greta at. He's a willing passer---he's a 5-9 Dwayne Wade
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Pharzeone
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2/23/2009  11:37 PM
Posted by TMS:

Duhon's still the same guy that has the Knicks' record for most assists in a game right? just checking... carry on.

And I sure Lee appreciates Duhon's assist but sometimes their teammates would like to get the ball too.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
EnySpree
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2/23/2009  11:39 PM
I been saying Duhon is a bum....he's supposed to be soo good defensively....he gets destroyed nightly.

He's not even good at initiating the offense. Like someone said, he is too busy worrying about licking his hands than pushing the rock. He is slow off the dribble and takes too many ill advised shots...sometimes bombs way out behing the 3pt line....he's a complete bum.
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BlueSeats
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2/23/2009  11:43 PM
People were pissed we weren't playing Marbury. Last few weeks Nate's been playing as good as Marbury in his prime, let alone the broken pile of crap he's been the last few years.

Anybody still not over the fact we're not playing Crybury?
KnicksSince88
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2/23/2009  11:44 PM
The Knicks are better with Nate on the floor and in the game period. He should be starting, although i don't mind him coming off the bench as long as he continues to get his 30+ minutes and is in there in crunch time

There is no one on the team who impacts us as much as Nate, including Lee. All you need to do is check the floor time stats to see how huge a value he is to us

Nate has played 1427 minutes this year. During those minutes the Knicks are +40 over the opposition, or +1.3 pts per 48 minutes over their opposition with Nate in the game

In the 1227 minutes the Knicks have played without Nate on the floor this year, they are -154, or -6.1 pts per 48 minutes with Nate off the floor

When Nate is on the floor, we are a GOOD team. Over the course of this season, we've been better than our opposition with him in the game. With him off the floor, we have been pretty brutal

Again its evidenced tonight. The Knicks were +7 in the 36 minutes he played and -3 in the 12 minutes he sat, against a garbage team

Theres no reason for him to be playing any less than 36-38 minutes a night

[Edited by - knickssince88 on 02-23-2009 11:45 PM]
knicks1248
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2/23/2009  11:45 PM
Wow.. duhon has been playing pretty damn good this year and has suprise many if not all of us. Giving the minutes he has logged, i can see why he's tailed off a little. Nate is maturing and playing great, but Im not ruling out both him and lee know this is a contract year which has to mean something.

ES
KnicksSince88
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2/23/2009  11:49 PM
Id like to continue to ask all the Duhon supporters why it is that if Duhon is having such a good year the Knicks offense operates far better with him out of the game than in it, and has all season long

The guy is a below average starting NBA PG in every sense. His efficiency rating of 12 is pathetic. Hes not any better than hes ever been before, he is the same guy who only one team would offer a starting job to this offseason (and that team would only offer 2 years). Hes just simply playing more minutes

Start naming me teams who don't have either a better PG than Duhon right now or at least a kid with upside who figures to be better than Duhon in short order if not already. You won't be able to name too many. You certainly won't fill 2 hands

[Edited by - knickssince88 on 02-23-2009 11:51 PM]
knicks1248
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2/24/2009  12:02 AM
Posted by KnicksSince88:

Id like to continue to ask all the Duhon supporters why it is that if Duhon is having such a good year the Knicks offense operates far better with him out of the game than in it, and has all season long

The guy is a below average starting NBA PG in every sense. His efficiency rating of 12 is pathetic. Hes not any better than hes ever been before, he is the same guy who only one team would offer a starting job to this offseason (and that team would only offer 2 years). Hes just simply playing more minutes

Start naming me teams who don't have either a better PG than Duhon right now or at least a kid with upside who figures to be better than Duhon in short order if not already. You won't be able to name too many. You certainly won't fill 2 hands

[Edited by - knickssince88 on 02-23-2009 11:51 PM]


He's playing well in this system without a doubt, and if you continue to only see negative in him by the numbers, then your close mined. His upside may have a ceiling outside this offense but i could care less about him at that point. The pick and role, 3ball and some decent defense is what I expect from him. From time to time he drives and creates plays( 4th in ast )and thats what you can ask for.

Nate's an entire different pg, it's dumb to compare them. It's like comparing Spree to allan.
ES
Pharzeone
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2/24/2009  12:05 AM
Posted by KnicksSince88:

Id like to continue to ask all the Duhon supporters why it is that if Duhon is having such a good year the Knicks offense operates far better with him out of the game than in it, and has all season long

The guy is a below average starting NBA PG in every sense. His efficiency rating of 12 is pathetic. Hes not any better than hes ever been before, he is the same guy who only one team would offer a starting job to this offseason (and that team would only offer 2 years). Hes just simply playing more minutes

Start naming me teams who don't have either a better PG than Duhon right now or at least a kid with upside who figures to be better than Duhon in short order if not already. You won't be able to name too many. You certainly won't fill 2 hands

[Edited by - knickssince88 on 02-23-2009 11:51 PM]

Duhon's inability to penetrate effectively kills him in this offense. His ball handling is horrible for a point guard. He is not very effective in the paint and looks to be out of control. He is slow for a point guard as well. As Envy touched on his defense has been bad all year long, that is one reason why Jeffries get to see so much playing time. D'Antoni has did his best to hide him by playing him off the 2 guard but he gets hurt there as well. I mean there are plays where he has to guard the opposing 4. Teams are forced to double team or rotate to help on Nate. I don't recall any team having to do the same with Duhon.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
KnicksSince88
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2/24/2009  12:09 AM
Posted by knicks1248:
Posted by KnicksSince88:

Id like to continue to ask all the Duhon supporters why it is that if Duhon is having such a good year the Knicks offense operates far better with him out of the game than in it, and has all season long

The guy is a below average starting NBA PG in every sense. His efficiency rating of 12 is pathetic. Hes not any better than hes ever been before, he is the same guy who only one team would offer a starting job to this offseason (and that team would only offer 2 years). Hes just simply playing more minutes

Start naming me teams who don't have either a better PG than Duhon right now or at least a kid with upside who figures to be better than Duhon in short order if not already. You won't be able to name too many. You certainly won't fill 2 hands

[Edited by - knickssince88 on 02-23-2009 11:51 PM]


He's playing well in this system without a doubt, and if you continue to only see negative in him by the numbers, then your close mined. His upside may have a ceiling outside this offense but i could care less about him at that point. The pick and role, 3ball and some decent defense is what I expect from him. From time to time he drives and creates plays( 4th in ast )and thats what you can ask for.

Nate's an entire different pg, it's dumb to compare them. It's like comparing Spree to allan.

I don't have an issue with Duhon whatsoever if he were playing 20-25 minutes a night. Id actually be a fan of his. But he's not, he's playing close to 40, and hes doing so running the point for a team who performs better offensively when hes NOT in the game. Hopefully Hughes can get it going and Duhon can have his minutes drastically cut.

Nate has run the point extremely well this year when hes been given the chance, especially of late. Hes flat out a better basketball player than Duhon at any position
franco12
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2/24/2009  12:13 AM
I think teams are starting to figure out Duhon & his play in this offense. A bunch of his turnovers were assists/good passes in other games against other teams.

The novelty has worn off, and in a best of 7 play off series, he would quickly become incredibly ineffective.
TMS
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2/24/2009  1:06 AM
Posted by KnicksSince88:
Posted by TMS:

Duhon's still the same guy that has the Knicks' record for most assists in a game right? just checking... carry on.

Duhon is also the same guy who is posting an efficiency rating of about 12 this year. Virtually every team in the NBA has a PG superior to Duhon or a kid with upside and a bigger ceiling than Duhon, with very very few exceptions

In addition to that, despite this awesome record setting superstud, our offense operates better when he is OFF the floor, and has all season

[Edited by - knickssince88 on 02-23-2009 11:33 PM]

Duhon has been getting D Lee open looks all year long & some guys continue to call him garbage... i don't get it at all... stop trying to paint this discussion like we're saying Duhon's a more talented player than Nate... the point being debated is that Nate is a better PG than Duhon is... we're not talking scoring ability so what the hell do +/- stats have to do w/this discussion? if u wanna tell me that u believe Nate's a better orchestrator than Duhon is i completely disagree w/u... if u wanna tell me u think Nate's a better player than Duhon then i agree, he is.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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2/24/2009  1:07 AM
Posted by franco12:

I think teams are starting to figure out Duhon & his play in this offense. A bunch of his turnovers were assists/good passes in other games against other teams.

thank you... that is exactly what i noticed the past few games... teams are playing the passing lanes on his penetration cuz they seem to have figured him out somewhat & what his tendencies may be... it might be time for him & MDA to come up w/a few twists to keep other teams guessing... his TO's have not been the lazy play careless variety, it's teams adjusting to what Duhon & the Knicks are doing on the floor.

[Edited by - TMS on 02-23-2009 10:08 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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