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Did Walsh get the memo? The 2010, 2 Max player plan was fun while it lasted.
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JohnWallace44
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2/19/2009  10:42 AM
NBA warns teams about shrinking cap

By Adrian Wojnarowski and Johnny Ludden, Yahoo! Sports

The NBA sent out an ominous memo to its teams on the eve of the league’s trade deadline to outline dramatic projected drops in salary-cap and luxury-tax levels for the next two summers, Yahoo! Sports has learned.

Because of rapidly declining revenues, the league office delivered a sobering warning to teams trying to free cap space for the historic free-agent class of 2010: Owners and executives will likely have to strip more payroll than initially planned.

At a time when most of the league’s teams are trying to shed salary, these stark projections did nothing to encourage the absorbing of top talent and pricey contracts in the final hours leading up to Thursday’s 3 p.m. ET trade deadline.

“They’re scaring the crap out of the people,” one Western Conference executive said Wednesday night. “There were already not enough buyers in this market, and after seeing that [memo], there are even less now.”

One West GM predicted the market could become even more flooded after the season.

“You’re not going to believe the number of players that will be out there [on the trade market],” he said. “But I don’t know how many teams will be willing to take them on.”
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
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jimimou
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2/19/2009  10:45 AM
luckily little things like salary caps and luxury taxes dont affect the deep deep pockets of jd & the straight shot....
SupremeCommander
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2/19/2009  10:47 AM
well, shoot... this still coudl be good news for the Knicks... teams may try to trade anyone making $10+ million to any team willing to pay
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joec32033
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2/19/2009  10:48 AM
Our 2010 plan was just put in fast forward. It is now known as the 2009 plan.
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PresIke
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2/19/2009  10:54 AM
where does it say in this article that this necessarily indicates the 2010 plan is dead?

don't you think you're being a bit defeatist rather quick?

What it means is that the cap will probably not grow to as high as folks may have thought, which means less room to sign free-agents.

However, as knicksbabyyeah said elsewhere, if the cap does not grow as much, or they decide to shrink it, so will players new salaries. In other words, a max player won't be able to get as much as they thought either. both have to go hand in hand.

that's why some think that players with opt outs before they renegotiate the new CBA may be more likely to do so, if they think they will get more now.

of course, there has to be a willingness from teams to pay them too.

regardless, on the ex-nytimes forum this issue has been discussed ad nauseum for months, so this is not so shocking, and most there still believe that a plan for 2010 to sign FA's is plausible.

Lest we forget that even if we can't sign 2 FA's in 2010, we will get more room in 2011, where there are still quality FA's. Or perhaps players sign short deals sooner (like after this year) with hopes of getting a better deal down the road, a la Ben Gordon.




[Edited by - PresIke on 02-19-2009 10:55 AM]
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
K22
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2/19/2009  10:55 AM
Posted by jimimou:

luckily little things like salary caps and luxury taxes dont affect the deep deep pockets of jd & the straight shot....

Straight shot of what? Jameson? Capt. Morgan?
-- the preceding post was brought to you by the letter K and the number 22.
JrZyHuStLa
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2/19/2009  10:56 AM
Posted by K22:
Posted by jimimou:

luckily little things like salary caps and luxury taxes dont affect the deep deep pockets of jd & the straight shot....

Straight shot of what? Jameson? Capt. Morgan?

LOL.
Cosmic
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2/19/2009  10:57 AM
Did anyone else get the subsequent memo?

The Salary Cap directly dictates the size of max, mle, lle, vet min contracts in the NBA and by virtue of that also sets the market for contracts anywhere inbetween. They're calculated by percentages.
The maximum amount of money a player can sign for is contingent on the number of years that player has played and the total of the salary cap. The maximum salary of a player with 6 or fewer years of experience is $9,000,000 or 25% of the total salary cap (2008-2009: $13,758,000). For a player with 7-9 years of experience, the maximum is $11,000,000 or 30% of the cap (2008-2009: $16,509,600), and for a player with 10+ years of experience, the maximum is $14,000,000 or 35% of the cap (2008-2009: $19,261,200).

If for arguments sake we have the room for 2 max FAs in 2010, and the cap goes down, so does the size of the max contract, which means we would still be able to offer 2 max FAs in 2010 contracts, because they fell in value in direct proportion to the cap number.

But, no, let's just focus on the first half of the story as if it's the end all, so we can trash Walsh's 2010 plan which seems to be fun for some to do just for the sake of it, of which was never touted as an end-all anyway but a necessary step in the rebuilding of this team. Yep, knock yourselves out.

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JrZyHuStLa
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2/19/2009  10:58 AM
http://www.jdandthestraightshot.com/

Listen to the song when you launch the site, this guy is a drunk.
VDesai
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2/19/2009  11:08 AM
The Cap is based on 51% of basketball related income for the previous year- so the $58 mil cap number for this year means that the NBA made a bit more than $110 mil last year in basketball related income.

So lets say the NBA revenues dropped $10 mil- that would indicate a $5 mil drop in the salary cap.

Now the maximum salary is roughly gonna be 30% of the salary cap number. So in the same scenario, if there was a $10 mil drop in NBA Basketball related income, and thus a $5 mil drop in the cap- the max would go from around $17.5 mil down to $16 mil

Its important to note that the declines will all be proportional, so as Cosmic mentions above, as the cap contracts, so will the max contract, so this hurting our ability to sign guys is somewhat overrated.
JohnWallace44
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2/19/2009  11:35 AM
Posted by Cosmic:

Did anyone else get the subsequent memo?

The Salary Cap directly dictates the size of max, mle, lle, vet min contracts in the NBA and by virtue of that also sets the market for contracts anywhere inbetween. They're calculated by percentages.
The maximum amount of money a player can sign for is contingent on the number of years that player has played and the total of the salary cap. The maximum salary of a player with 6 or fewer years of experience is $9,000,000 or 25% of the total salary cap (2008-2009: $13,758,000). For a player with 7-9 years of experience, the maximum is $11,000,000 or 30% of the cap (2008-2009: $16,509,600), and for a player with 10+ years of experience, the maximum is $14,000,000 or 35% of the cap (2008-2009: $19,261,200).

If for arguments sake we have the room for 2 max FAs in 2010, and the cap goes down, so does the size of the max contract, which means we would still be able to offer 2 max FAs in 2010 contracts, because they fell in value in direct proportion to the cap number.

But, no, let's just focus on the first half of the story as if it's the end all, so we can trash Walsh's 2010 plan which seems to be fun for some to do just for the sake of it, of which was never touted as an end-all anyway but a necessary step in the rebuilding of this team. Yep, knock yourselves out.

Cosmic, I hear you and that's good news, and a good point.

However... the lowering of the cap doesn't change the $ amount that Curry, Jeffries, Chandler, Gallo and our 2009 pick are getting paid. That means that if the cap goes down, their percentage of the cap goes up.

We can hope that the expectations, salary wise, of a player the caliber of Joe Johnson, will go down for 2010, but if there are 12 teams out there who are trying to make room for Max contracts... we're already asking them to give up salary and years to switch teams, but now we're going to be asking them potentially to take less money with the Knicks than they would with other potential landing spots.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
CrushAlot
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2/19/2009  11:39 AM
I think you need to let Walsh do his job before you judge him. The deadline hasn't passed yet. There has been nothing worth the expiring contracts he has or worth Nate and Lee. He has said that he will have other opportunities to make trades and he is right. This is the time of year when the Knicks usually make mistakes. If the Knicks just hang onto Rose and Marbury and let their contracts go off the books that would not be a bad thing. Walsh will make a move if it helps the team and it is there to be made. If not he will make moves next year.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Bonn1997
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2/19/2009  11:40 AM
Posted by JohnWallace44:
Posted by Cosmic:

Did anyone else get the subsequent memo?

The Salary Cap directly dictates the size of max, mle, lle, vet min contracts in the NBA and by virtue of that also sets the market for contracts anywhere inbetween. They're calculated by percentages.
The maximum amount of money a player can sign for is contingent on the number of years that player has played and the total of the salary cap. The maximum salary of a player with 6 or fewer years of experience is $9,000,000 or 25% of the total salary cap (2008-2009: $13,758,000). For a player with 7-9 years of experience, the maximum is $11,000,000 or 30% of the cap (2008-2009: $16,509,600), and for a player with 10+ years of experience, the maximum is $14,000,000 or 35% of the cap (2008-2009: $19,261,200).

If for arguments sake we have the room for 2 max FAs in 2010, and the cap goes down, so does the size of the max contract, which means we would still be able to offer 2 max FAs in 2010 contracts, because they fell in value in direct proportion to the cap number.

But, no, let's just focus on the first half of the story as if it's the end all, so we can trash Walsh's 2010 plan which seems to be fun for some to do just for the sake of it, of which was never touted as an end-all anyway but a necessary step in the rebuilding of this team. Yep, knock yourselves out.

Cosmic, I hear you and that's good news, and a good point.

However... the lowering of the cap doesn't change the $ amount that Curry, Jeffries, Chandler, Gallo and our 2009 pick are getting paid. That means that if the cap goes down, their percentage of the cap goes up.

We can hope that the expectations, salary wise, of a player the caliber of Joe Johnson, will go down for 2010, but if there are 12 teams out there who are trying to make room for Max contracts... we're already asking them to give up salary and years to switch teams, but now we're going to be asking them potentially to take less money with the Knicks than they would with other potential landing spots.
You're ignoring how easy (though probably unnecessary anyway) it will be to get rid of Jeffries
http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=30212
JohnWallace44
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2/19/2009  11:45 AM
At 3pm today, he will no longer have two huge assets, Marbs and Rose.

Why are those huge assets? Because I think that the only way you move Jeffries or Curry is to save a team a boat load of money next year. That opportunity is really gone if you don't do it now. Trading Marbs with Jeffries for someone else's contracts that run through next year could save a team 13 million even if they aren't in luxury cap territory.

If we can't move Jeffries or Curry, I just don't see moving them next year. We can't save teams as much money by trading Al or Timmay next year.

If we don't move Jeffries or Curry, Lee and Nate's resigning become near impossible,and the cap situation is looking grim anyway per the memo.

That's why it's a big deal.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
TheGame
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2/19/2009  12:06 PM
Posted by SupremeCommander:

well, shoot... this still coudl be good news for the Knicks... teams may try to trade anyone making $10+ million to any team willing to pay

I agree. All we really need is Lebron. You add Lebron to our team and we could compete with the Cavs. The question is can Walsh find the right expensive players. IT brought in problem guys who were overpaid. If we could solid young guys like Tyson Chandler (who played great in the playoffs) or a guy like Kevin Martin, we could use our deep pockets and rebuild this team the right way. If Washington has any interest in Jeffries, I would give them cash and a second round pick to take him back.
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jazz74
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2/19/2009  12:09 PM
you know, sometimes i think stern is out to get the knicks. really i do.
JohnWallace44
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2/19/2009  12:37 PM
The team is cursed until Marbury is completely off the roster.

That seems like the bottom line.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
PresIke
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2/19/2009  12:41 PM
Posted by Cosmic:

Did anyone else get the subsequent memo?

The Salary Cap directly dictates the size of max, mle, lle, vet min contracts in the NBA and by virtue of that also sets the market for contracts anywhere inbetween. They're calculated by percentages.
The maximum amount of money a player can sign for is contingent on the number of years that player has played and the total of the salary cap. The maximum salary of a player with 6 or fewer years of experience is $9,000,000 or 25% of the total salary cap (2008-2009: $13,758,000). For a player with 7-9 years of experience, the maximum is $11,000,000 or 30% of the cap (2008-2009: $16,509,600), and for a player with 10+ years of experience, the maximum is $14,000,000 or 35% of the cap (2008-2009: $19,261,200).

If for arguments sake we have the room for 2 max FAs in 2010, and the cap goes down, so does the size of the max contract, which means we would still be able to offer 2 max FAs in 2010 contracts, because they fell in value in direct proportion to the cap number.

But, no, let's just focus on the first half of the story as if it's the end all, so we can trash Walsh's 2010 plan which seems to be fun for some to do just for the sake of it, of which was never touted as an end-all anyway but a necessary step in the rebuilding of this team. Yep, knock yourselves out.

This is exactly the point I was trying to make as well.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
JohnWallace44
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2/19/2009  12:48 PM
Let's reduce this to an SAT question...

The cap is $10.00 total and you have Gallo, Chandler, Curry, Jeffries and the 2009 pick counting $4 total against the cap leaving you $6 left.

The max amount any team can offer is $3 per player. (plan is to sign two players at this max amount)

The economy crumbles and the salary cap has to be dropped 20% to $8.

Now the most that any team can offer is $2.40 per player (also down 20%).

We now have $4.00 left.

How do we sign two Max players now?

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
BasketballJones
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2/19/2009  12:55 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:

Let's reduce this to an SAT question...

The cap is $10.00 total and you have Gallo, Chandler, Curry, Jeffries and the 2009 pick counting $4 total against the cap leaving you $6 left.

The max amount any team can offer is $3 per player. (plan is to sign two players at this max amount)

The economy crumbles and the salary cap has to be dropped 20% to $8.

Now the most that any team can offer is $2.40 per player (also down 20%).

We now have $4.00 left.

How do we sign two Max players now?

I dunno, but I don't see how anyone can live on $3.00 a year.
https:// It's not so hard.
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