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max money in 2010
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djsunyc
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2/3/2009  10:08 AM
just an fyi, but a 7 year player coming up on free agency in 2010 can make upwards of $135 mil for 6 years if they re-sign with their current team.

i'll use bosh as an example:

bosh makes $15.9 mil in 2009. taking into account the 10.5% raise he will get each year, his contract (if he were to re-sign with toronto) would be the following:

2010 - $17.5 mil
2011 - $19.3 mil
2012 - $21.3 mil
2013 - $23.5 mil
2014 - $26.0 mil
2015 - $28.8 mil

now, if he were to sign with another team outright, he could only get a 5 year contract guaranteed. so the total would come out to about $106 mil for 5 years if the other team has $17.5 mil in cap space to spend.

the point is that free agents have at least a $25 mil incentive to re-sign with their current team OR force a sign and trade. secondly, when investing in a player that make up 35-40% of the cap, you better be sure you get the right guy b/c jermaine o'neal is gonna make $23 mil next season and that really hurts the raps flexibility. on a team like the knicks, where resources are unlimited, they can keep spending like nobody's business once they acquire that free agent so it may not impact them as much. but 2010 could really hurt a number of teams out there long term.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 02-03-2009 10:16 AM]
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Bonn1997
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2/3/2009  10:15 AM
$135 mil for 6 years plus endorsements playing in Ohio
OR $105 mil for 5 years plus endorsements in NYC. I guarantee you Lebron comes out ahead financially by a landslide if he makes the latter choice.
djsunyc
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2/3/2009  10:17 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

$135 mil for 6 years plus endorsements playing in Ohio
OR $105 mil for 5 years plus endorsements in NYC. I guarantee you Lebron comes out ahead financially by a landslide if he makes the latter choice.

this does not apply to lebron b/c he is bigger than the game...
Bonn1997
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2/3/2009  10:17 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

$135 mil for 6 years plus endorsements playing in Ohio
OR $105 mil for 5 years plus endorsements in NYC. I guarantee you Lebron comes out ahead financially by a landslide if he makes the latter choice.
Also, if he were to get a contract extension, what would his salary in year 6 be if he signed outright in NY? It's probably going to be around $20 to 25 mil, which would make the comparison closer to $135 vs. upper 120s for the first 6 years (again excluding endorsements).
Bonn1997
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2/3/2009  10:18 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bonn1997:

$135 mil for 6 years plus endorsements playing in Ohio
OR $105 mil for 5 years plus endorsements in NYC. I guarantee you Lebron comes out ahead financially by a landslide if he makes the latter choice.

this does not apply to lebron b/c he is bigger than the game...
It still applies, maybe a little lesser than with other players, but you can't tell me that there wouldn't be a HUGE increase in jersey sales, shoe deals, etc. if he played in NY. I know I would then buy Lebron stuff and I bet many, many, many New Yorkers who currently don't would.
djsunyc
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2/3/2009  10:21 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bonn1997:

$135 mil for 6 years plus endorsements playing in Ohio
OR $105 mil for 5 years plus endorsements in NYC. I guarantee you Lebron comes out ahead financially by a landslide if he makes the latter choice.

this does not apply to lebron b/c he is bigger than the game...
It still applies, maybe a little lesser than with other players, but you can't tell me that there wouldn't be a HUGE increase in jersey sales, shoe deals, etc. if he played in NY. I know I would then buy Lebron stuff and I bet many, many, many New Yorkers who currently don't would.

no, i'm saying that 5 or 6 years doesn't apply to lebron b/c he will make a ton of money wherever he goes to compensate that 1 year less in a contract.
GallOfFame
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2/3/2009  10:31 AM
The endorsement myth is just that a myth. Endorsement dollars are dropping. Lebron and major name athletes aren't selling because the economy is down. You don't make up $30mil just by coming to New York plus he can set his contract up to opt in 3yrs again anyway and see where the new CBA is at. There are many major athletes who don't play in major markets and are marketable to a large degree....Peyton Manning being one of them. I bet he still is/was more popular than his brother even after his brother won a chip. Please stop it with this ridiculous notion if numbers aren't actually being presented.
GallOfFame
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2/3/2009  10:34 AM
D.J I thought the numbers were $102mil vs $133mil. Players such as Lebron get no less than 105% of his previous yr salary no matter the cap number or as much as 30% of whatever the cap number is.
martin
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2/3/2009  10:34 AM
Posted by GallOfFame:

The endorsement myth is just that a myth. Endorsement dollars are dropping. Lebron and major name athletes aren't selling because the economy is down. You don't make up $30mil just by coming to New York plus he can set his contract up to opt in 3yrs again anyway and see where the new CBA is at. There are many major athletes who don't play in major markets and are marketable to a large degree....Peyton Manning being one of them. I bet he still is/was more popular than his brother even after his brother won a chip. Please stop it with this ridiculous notion if numbers aren't actually being presented.

LeBron made an estimated $25M in 2007 through endorsements.
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djsunyc
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2/3/2009  10:36 AM
Posted by GallOfFame:

D.J I thought the numbers were $102mil vs $133mil. Players such as Lebron get no less than 105% of his previous yr salary no matter the cap number or as much as 30% of whatever the cap number is.

you're numbers may be closer to the actual amount but we're close enough.
GallOfFame
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2/3/2009  10:43 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by GallOfFame:

The endorsement myth is just that a myth. Endorsement dollars are dropping. Lebron and major name athletes aren't selling because the economy is down. You don't make up $30mil just by coming to New York plus he can set his contract up to opt in 3yrs again anyway and see where the new CBA is at. There are many major athletes who don't play in major markets and are marketable to a large degree....Peyton Manning being one of them. I bet he still is/was more popular than his brother even after his brother won a chip. Please stop it with this ridiculous notion if numbers aren't actually being presented.

LeBron made an estimated $25M in 2007 through endorsements.

http://blog.cleveland.com/sports/2008/10/king_without_a_crown_james_kno.html
"His Nike shoe and apparel sales have been just average, which means not very good," said Matt Powell, an analyst at SportsOne Source, which tracks sporting goods sales. "It is the same for jersey sales."

The NBA does not release actual numbers, but in its most recent rankings James is just third worldwide in replica jersey sales. In Europe, he ranks fourth. In China -- where James and Nike have focused their efforts with specialized campaigns, including games or promotional tours in each of the past four years -- James ranks fifth. The Celtics' Kevin Garnett and the Los Angeles Lakers' Kobe Bryant rank ahead of him in each list.

As was stated on TNT about a month ago endorsements follow winning primarily, not demographics which means if Lebron wins a Chip in Cleveland the dollars will be there or come, regardless, however you want to look at it. Of course if he won a chip in New York vs Cleveland there more than likely would be some popularity distinction in endorsements but not prior to trying to factor it into him signing a Max deal without one.

[Edited by - GallOfFame on 02-03-2009 10:45 AM]
GallOfFame
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2/3/2009  10:44 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by GallOfFame:

D.J I thought the numbers were $102mil vs $133mil. Players such as Lebron get no less than 105% of his previous yr salary no matter the cap number or as much as 30% of whatever the cap number is.

you're numbers may be closer to the actual amount but we're close enough.

The reason I asked is because I thought maybe you had some insight into where the potential cap number will be. You seem to know/find things others don't.
JohnWallace44
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2/3/2009  10:49 AM
Doesn't LeBron have an automatic salary escalator built in to his Nike contract if he were to play in NY?

Great news that the Brooklyn stadium won't be ready until after 2010.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
earthmansurfer
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2/3/2009  10:56 AM
Endorsements might be changing but one thing hasn't...

Who is the last great player to play in the Mecca of New York? (Ewing was great, but not Lebron, Koby, etc.)

Can any of you actually imagine how a player of Lebrons talent would transform this city overnight? Throw into the mix another max or near max talent, plus our improving young talent base. Yankee fans have seen this, it's like having a legend here for the world to see in the most famous city in America. Do you not think Lebron doesn't see that?

All I'm saying is that as important as money is, there is something much much bigger at work.
And you dreamers can feel it.

EMS

[Edited by - earthmansurfer on 02-03-2009 10:57 AM]
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Andrew
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2/3/2009  10:58 AM
I think shoe sales are down because people are pushing fakes on internet message boards.
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martin
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2/3/2009  10:59 AM
Posted by GallOfFame:
Posted by martin:
Posted by GallOfFame:

The endorsement myth is just that a myth. Endorsement dollars are dropping. Lebron and major name athletes aren't selling because the economy is down. You don't make up $30mil just by coming to New York plus he can set his contract up to opt in 3yrs again anyway and see where the new CBA is at. There are many major athletes who don't play in major markets and are marketable to a large degree....Peyton Manning being one of them. I bet he still is/was more popular than his brother even after his brother won a chip. Please stop it with this ridiculous notion if numbers aren't actually being presented.

LeBron made an estimated $25M in 2007 through endorsements.

http://blog.cleveland.com/sports/2008/10/king_without_a_crown_james_kno.html
"His Nike shoe and apparel sales have been just average, which means not very good," said Matt Powell, an analyst at SportsOne Source, which tracks sporting goods sales. "It is the same for jersey sales."

The NBA does not release actual numbers, but in its most recent rankings James is just third worldwide in replica jersey sales. In Europe, he ranks fourth. In China -- where James and Nike have focused their efforts with specialized campaigns, including games or promotional tours in each of the past four years -- James ranks fifth. The Celtics' Kevin Garnett and the Los Angeles Lakers' Kobe Bryant rank ahead of him in each list.

As was stated on TNT about a month ago endorsements follow winning primarily, not demographics which means if Lebron wins a Chip in Cleveland the dollars will be there or come, regardless, however you want to look at it. Of course if he won a chip in New York vs Cleveland there more than likely would be some popularity distinction in endorsements but not prior to trying to factor it into him signing a Max deal without one.

[Edited by - GallOfFame on 02-03-2009 10:45 AM]

I have no idea what you are trying to add. The dude makes a fist full from endorsements. Nate's and Lee's jersey are both top 15 in the NBA. When you add it all up, being in NY versus being in CLE is a big difference in terms of endorsements and trying to sell stuff.
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GallOfFame
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2/3/2009  11:00 AM
Posted by JohnWallace44:

Doesn't LeBron have an automatic salary escalator built in to his Nike contract if he were to play in NY?

Great news that the Brooklyn stadium won't be ready until after 2010.


Nike Won't Pay LeBron James a Bonus For Joining the Knicks

Posted Nov 26th 2008 6:20PM by Nate Jones (author feed)

Filed Under: Cavaliers, Knicks, NBA Rumors
With everyone convinced that LeBron James will leave Cleveland for the New York Knicks during the summer of 2010, there have been all sorts of rumors that have come about to explain his desire to leave. One of them is the belief that he will receive more money from Nike if he plays in New York. The thinking behind this is that it would be much more advantageous for Nike to have LeBron playing in the country's largest market and the world's basketball mecca.

Today CNBC's Darren Rovell stepped up to the plate and killed all notions of that rumor. Here's the scoop:

The $100 million number is LeBron's total contract that includes a $10 million signing bonus. There are other bonuses, royalties and incentives, but there is no New York, Chicago or L.A. market incentive.

Even if LeBron did have the New York clause in his contract it would be done by the time his contract expired. James' original deal is a seven year deal, meaning it ends at the end of the 2009-10 season, before he would have a chance to go to New York.

Rovell eventually goes into something about how LeBron hasn't been really moving product for Nike and how he likely won't be able to make more than what he's making from Nike now even if he goes to New York.

Even without incentives in his current deal, I tend to think that Nike could put pressure on LeBron into moving to New York or a large market. LeBron is one of the top two players in the league, yet Stephon Marbury often gets way more media coverage than him. Stephon Marbury would be a nobody in Cleveland, but because he plays (eh, I mean sits on the bench) in New York, his every move gets a ton of media coverage. Even in a internet based, more flat world MSM media coverage is king. That kind of coverage and exposure has to be appealing to Nike.

Also, from all accounts, head of Nike Basketball, Lynn Merritt, has a big influence in the everyday workings of LeBron, inc. In fact, LeBron's friend/Marketing agent Maverick Carter came up as an intern under Merrit. So despite the lack of financial incentives, don't be surprised if Nike does nudge LeBron in the direction of NYC.


Now they want him to come here for their own self gain obviously but I don't see a new $90mil+ contract plus $30mil in bonuses to make up his Max dollar differences. Considering he could get the same deal he has now or even ask for a $15mil signing bonus this time around and just stay in Cleveland.
MS
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2/3/2009  11:03 AM
Well his jersey sales will go through the rough if and when he changes teams and especially if he comes to new york. I don't know if Bosh is worth that type of cash, look at the record right now in toronto.
GallOfFame
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2/3/2009  11:05 AM
Posted by Andrew:

I think shoe sales are down because people are pushing fakes on internet message boards.

That could be it but Nike was largely responsible for starting this to bring contract(individual and manufacturers) values down and keep more of the profits while having steady cash flow. Nike makes crazy money off of Knock Off factories. You know this right? It's the same situation in the music industry. Record Labels leak music over the internet so they don't have to sign artists to outrageous rich contract deals. They can sign all these bum talents to penny pinching deals and keep all the royalties and make money via the internet.

[Edited by - GallOfFame on 02-03-2009 11:06 AM]
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2/3/2009  11:07 AM
And after all these posts, there's still nothing about basketball. Very sad, the game has become all about money - contracts and endorsements. I would take Kobe any day of the week over Lebron. Kobe has shown a true respect and love for the history of the game. He is in a completely different class then Lebron, and the King will never get there.
max money in 2010

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