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can two offensively talented big men work?
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djsunyc
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1/22/2009  1:52 PM
amare + shaq are having trouble.

zach + curry were the worst ever.

bosh + jermaine were having issues before jo got hurt.

it seems the only real way to make it work is for one big to completely sacrifice their game offensively OR to have one big be really perimeter oriented to open up space for the other guy (like boozer + okur).
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Knicksfansince94
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1/22/2009  1:54 PM
Of course it can work. It is not so much about talent, in my opinion, but rather the individual mentalities of the two players.

Any combination of any human, at any talent level, CAN work. It seems to me that it is a matter of individual responsibility; choice.
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eViL
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1/22/2009  1:56 PM
Duncan and Robinson worked pretty well.
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Allanfan20
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1/22/2009  1:57 PM
Bosh and Jermaine is weird. Zach and Curry are both high ego low IQ players. There's no way it could have worked between those two. Amare needs to wise up. Shaq knows what he's doing and Amare should realize that and take a little bit of a backseat. He needs to put his ego aside if he wants to win a championship.

What about David Robinson and Tim Duncan in '99? Or how about those Lakers and Celtics teams? It can happen if they want to play team basketball and they can put their egos aside.
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Knicksfansince94
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1/22/2009  1:57 PM
Posted by eViL:

Duncan and Robinson worked pretty well.

A case study in mentally-healthy, developed individuals that understood what winning is about. Winning is about comitting yourself to the greater good; something that both Duncan and Robinson were masters at, and a huge reason why both are considered to be among the greatest ever at their craft.
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NYKBocker
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1/22/2009  1:59 PM
It can only work if both bigs can actually play in the perimeter.

Amare + Shaq? Shaq can't play in the perimeter.
Zach + Curry? See above and replace Shaq with Curry
Bosh + Jermaine? Hmmm.. This should work but I guess Jermaine is hurt a lot.

Duncan + Robinson? Both are very versatile and not just post players.
McHale + The Chief? Both can shoot from the outside.
The Dream + Sampson? Sampson was a SF in a C body.
fishmike
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1/22/2009  2:01 PM
so do Gasol and Bynum. Webber and Vlade. Sweetney and Vranes
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Ira
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1/22/2009  2:16 PM
Posted by NYKBocker:

It can only work if both bigs can actually play in the perimeter.

Amare + Shaq? Shaq can't play in the perimeter.
Zach + Curry? See above and replace Shaq with Curry
Bosh + Jermaine? Hmmm.. This should work but I guess Jermaine is hurt a lot.

Duncan + Robinson? Both are very versatile and not just post players.
McHale + The Chief? Both can shoot from the outside.
The Dream + Sampson? Sampson was a SF in a C body.

I agree. But I'd like to add that it helps a lot when they've been working together for some time. Another pair that worked was Unseld and Hayes.
EwingsGlass
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1/22/2009  2:18 PM
Robinson's stats dropped off dramatically after the arrival of Duncan in 97.
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Knicksfansince94
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1/22/2009  2:23 PM
Posted by EwingsGlass:

Robinson's stats dropped off dramatically after the arrival of Duncan in 97.

They did, but the key was his acceptance of his new role. His mind-set. That's what it's about. That's how players come toghether, with their minds, DUDE! It takes a big man..
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BasketballJones
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1/22/2009  2:27 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

amare + shaq are having trouble.

zach + curry were the worst ever.

bosh + jermaine were having issues before jo got hurt.

it seems the only real way to make it work is for one big to completely sacrifice their game offensively OR to have one big be really perimeter oriented to open up space for the other guy (like boozer + okur).

Or you could alternate them in the lineup.
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VDesai
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1/22/2009  2:29 PM
Posted by eViL:

Duncan and Robinson worked pretty well.

Robinson took a HUGE step back though. He want from a 28 ppg guy to 15 ppg guy when they started winning titles.
Knicksfansince94
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1/22/2009  2:31 PM
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by eViL:

Duncan and Robinson worked pretty well.

Robinson took a HUGE step back though. He want from a 28 ppg guy to 15 ppg guy when they started winning titles.

His drop in points per game is no indication of his overall quality. It's a great testament to his healthy mental atitude that made this work. Could he have dropped 30 PPG if he needed to? YES. Did he? NO- BUT FOR ALL THE RIGHT REASONS.

The only way this stuff works is if you have healthy, confident players willing to work together for the greater good.
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newyorknewyork
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1/22/2009  2:35 PM
Posted by fishmike:

so do Gasol and Bynum. Webber and Vlade. Sweetney and Vranes

You know Sweetney played his best ball when pared next to Mutombo. Mutombo coverd for Sweetneys lack of height and Sweetney rebounded his best and got most of his put back points when he played next to Mutombo. It was when we traded Mutombo for Crawford and had Muhammad start when Sweetney fell off.
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BasketballJones
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1/22/2009  2:36 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Posted by fishmike:

so do Gasol and Bynum. Webber and Vlade. Sweetney and Vranes

You know Sweetney played his best ball when pared next to Mutombo. Mutombo coverd for Sweetneys lack of height and Sweetney rebounded his best and got most of his put back points when he played next to Mutombo. It was when we traded Mutombo for Crawford and had Muhammad start when Sweetney fell off.

Yeah, Sweetney & Motumbo was a great combination. Any chance we can get those two guys back?
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EwingsGlass
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1/22/2009  2:38 PM
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by eViL:

Duncan and Robinson worked pretty well.

Robinson took a HUGE step back though. He want from a 28 ppg guy to 15 ppg guy when they started winning titles.

Exactly. you can't really expect the same output out of both players. Rashard Lewis and Dwight Howard work as an offensive PF/C combo, but its clear between Turk/Lewis/Howard who plays inside and who plays outside. Big guys can't share the block.
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eViL
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1/22/2009  2:43 PM
I guess if the question is "can two offensively talented big men work and both get theirs to the fullest?" then the answer is probably "no." However, if both guys are willing to sacrifice, then yeah -- they can work.
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newyorknewyork
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1/22/2009  2:51 PM
Offensively
One has to be able to play the high post(face up game, put the ball on the floor, and jumper out to 18feet. One has to be able to play low post(post foot work, back to basket game).

Defensively
One has to be able to play man to man defense that can extent out to 15feet(To guard the forwards with a face up game, as well as a good help shotblocker. One has to be able to provide low post defense(To guard the bigs with back to basket game), as well as an intimidating presence in the post.

Both players would need to know which role they play.
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joec32033
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1/22/2009  2:52 PM
I think this really depends. Everyone here is talking about two guys with the the exact same skill set.

The answer is yes, imo, if you take a guy like Dirk and put him with a guy like Shaq.
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fishmike
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1/22/2009  2:53 PM
look. There is only one post, but lots of places on the perimeter. Its just physics. Duncan obviously took half of Robinson's shots, but they were a far superior team with the two bigs.
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can two offensively talented big men work?
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