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tkf's keys to the loss...
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tkf
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1/16/2009  9:31 PM
Losing to a 7-31 team hurts. Especially when you had control of the game and you play like a bunch of retards down the stretch.. 13 straight points in the final 3 minutes.... You gotta be kidding me.. Unreal.. I am still speechless... with a 6 point lead, we wasted posessions with stupid threes by duhon and chandler, bad passes and lazy play....

keys:

Great game by david lee, but wasted, just wasted: 15/21, great game on the boards, controlled the lane, just a wasted effort...

Jeffries: a good game by jeffries is a game we should never lose.. 8/11 with 3 blocks and a couple of assists.. very active, very good game.. and a wasted effort.

Duhon: 13/8 was going well until the last two minutes, made two bad decisions with the ball, it cost us. and he kept leaving james, who only chucks threes at this point in his miserable career and he hit them, I can't stand that fool.. Never did..

chandler: good, bad, good, bad, good, good, bad... 16/5 with 4 turnovers, and they came at the wrong time.... he needs to get better protecting the ball, and not taking so many contested threes. He was playing so well to start the third, and then faded later in the game..

Q: where was he? 7/3 didn't see much of him in the second half..

Nate: seems to be shaking his slump, but he is too reckless with the ball at times , 12 points and it looks like his stroke is comming back..

Al harrington.. 18/4, some boneheaded plays late... nothing more to say..


This team can't stand prosperity. I said in the game thread when we were up 6 with just over 3 minutes, we were blowing opportunities to put this game away. Our defense was playing well, we were getting stops. then we let jamison steal a rebound and score. We forced a three, we let them come down and throw up a three, I mean what a complete collapse. Dantoni looked dumbfounded... I can't blame him. Just inexcuseable collapse to a wizards team that was content going home 7-32 and would have slept well!!!

BAd loss, and when you look at it, we just had 19 assists and 16 turnovers. that pretty much tells the story.... this team needs to have guys like nate and Al on the bench late in games, unless they are hot. Al wasn't hot and he should have been benched, but who did we have to bring in? It is clear to see, we need a few more pieces, that is evident.. but we threw this game away, with the Hot sixers who just bumrushed the spurs tonight, comming into the garden tomorrow....

good luck knicks..

15-23

one step forward, two steps back...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
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GKFv2
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1/16/2009  9:32 PM
Are you importing this from RealGM?
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
tkf
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1/16/2009  9:36 PM
Posted by GKFv2:

Are you importing this from RealGM?

yup..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
GKFv2
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1/16/2009  9:53 PM
What I meant was, are you going to be posting this here from now on instead of there? But then I forgot you're still a MOD there. For a second I thought you got banned from there.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
SupremeCommander
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1/16/2009  9:57 PM
TKF, I've been saying this for years but the Knicks have sucked at the team assists:team turnover department. Charles Barkley one time on Inside the NBA mentioned why the Pistons were so damned good a few years ago and why some other teams sucked... he said the really good teams have about a 30:10 night in, night out. When you think about how far away this team from consistently performing like that, it kinda makes you sick
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
tkf
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1/16/2009  10:00 PM
Posted by GKFv2:

What I meant was, are you going to be posting this here from now on instead of there? But then I forgot you're still a MOD there. For a second I thought you got banned from there.

nah, I will post it over here sometimes... all is good at realgm...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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1/16/2009  10:05 PM
Posted by SupremeCommander:

TKF, I've been saying this for years but the Knicks have sucked at the team assists:team turnover department. Charles Barkley one time on Inside the NBA mentioned why the Pistons were so damned good a few years ago and why some other teams sucked... he said the really good teams have about a 30:10 night in, night out. When you think about how far away this team from consistently performing like that, it kinda makes you sick


but it also underscores our need to get more guys like duhon, lee and chandler, as well as jeffries. and what I mean, are guys who WANT to play this Dantoni style, and what I mean by want to, is just not the free spirited shooting. I mean guys who are willing and wanting to pass, move and get open shots for their teamates and not for themselves..

Nate and al are gifted enough to play in any offense, but they rather drible, dribble and shoot.. pretty much unbridled, reckless style play. Now they have to play Dantoni's way, but you can tell when defenses late tighten up, they use that as an excuse to break the offense with a horrible one on one shot... Instead of buckling down and being more intent to run the offense until you get a good shot. they rather break it for their own good... the same went with zach and jamal to an extent.. that is why these guys really don't win...

Good point about teams that night in and night out are 30/10.... If we want that kind of ratio from our PG's then why not the team as a whole?
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
SupremeCommander
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1/16/2009  10:12 PM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by SupremeCommander:

TKF, I've been saying this for years but the Knicks have sucked at the team assists:team turnover department. Charles Barkley one time on Inside the NBA mentioned why the Pistons were so damned good a few years ago and why some other teams sucked... he said the really good teams have about a 30:10 night in, night out. When you think about how far away this team from consistently performing like that, it kinda makes you sick


but it also underscores our need to get more guys like duhon, lee and chandler, as well as jeffries. and what I mean, are guys who WANT to play this Dantoni style, and what I mean by want to, is just not the free spirited shooting. I mean guys who are willing and wanting to pass, move and get open shots for their teamates and not for themselves..

Nate and al are gifted enough to play in any offense, but they rather drible, dribble and shoot.. pretty much unbridled, reckless style play. Now they have to play Dantoni's way, but you can tell when defenses late tighten up, they use that as an excuse to break the offense with a horrible one on one shot... Instead of buckling down and being more intent to run the offense until you get a good shot. they rather break it for their own good... the same went with zach and jamal to an extent.. that is why these guys really don't win...

Good point about teams that night in and night out are 30/10.... If we want that kind of ratio from our PG's then why not the team as a whole?

Oh, I agree... when you think about it, it makes sense. You want the team to move the ball and protect it. I know Barkley can be a bit of a knucklehead, but I thought that was one of the most insightful basketball comments I ever hear.

I'm not a big Jeffries fan, but I agree to a certain extent. I do think he does wants to play this style. And, I think these players will eventually be found. It's just that we're dealing with Isiah's vision of acquiring as much indivual talent as possible. Some have Iq, most don't... seems arbitrary.
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
OldFan
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1/16/2009  10:32 PM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by SupremeCommander:

TKF, I've been saying this for years but the Knicks have sucked at the team assists:team turnover department. Charles Barkley one time on Inside the NBA mentioned why the Pistons were so damned good a few years ago and why some other teams sucked... he said the really good teams have about a 30:10 night in, night out. When you think about how far away this team from consistently performing like that, it kinda makes you sick


but it also underscores our need to get more guys like duhon, lee and chandler, as well as jeffries. and what I mean, are guys who WANT to play this Dantoni style, and what I mean by want to, is just not the free spirited shooting. I mean guys who are willing and wanting to pass, move and get open shots for their teamates and not for themselves..

Nate and al are gifted enough to play in any offense, but they rather drible, dribble and shoot.. pretty much unbridled, reckless style play. Now they have to play Dantoni's way, but you can tell when defenses late tighten up, they use that as an excuse to break the offense with a horrible one on one shot... Instead of buckling down and being more intent to run the offense until you get a good shot. they rather break it for their own good... the same went with zach and jamal to an extent.. that is why these guys really don't win...

Good point about teams that night in and night out are 30/10.... If we want that kind of ratio from our PG's then why not the team as a whole?

I hate to confuse this issue with the facts but no team now average close to 30/10 and I doubt any team ever has.
I agree that more assists and less turnovers is a good thing but the 30/10 thing is pulled out of thin air no team even averages 2 to 1 or close to it. And this stat alone doesn't seem like a strong indicator of a teams record.
These are the stats for the 5 best teams in the NBA and the Knicks. Can you even pick the Knicks out of the pack:

22.1/16.1
21.7/15.1
20.3/13.4
23.1/13.8
19.6/14.2
22.7/15.4





[Edited by - oldfan on 01-16-2009 10:33 PM]
SupremeCommander
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1/16/2009  10:50 PM
Posted by OldFan:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by SupremeCommander:

TKF, I've been saying this for years but the Knicks have sucked at the team assists:team turnover department. Charles Barkley one time on Inside the NBA mentioned why the Pistons were so damned good a few years ago and why some other teams sucked... he said the really good teams have about a 30:10 night in, night out. When you think about how far away this team from consistently performing like that, it kinda makes you sick


but it also underscores our need to get more guys like duhon, lee and chandler, as well as jeffries. and what I mean, are guys who WANT to play this Dantoni style, and what I mean by want to, is just not the free spirited shooting. I mean guys who are willing and wanting to pass, move and get open shots for their teamates and not for themselves..

Nate and al are gifted enough to play in any offense, but they rather drible, dribble and shoot.. pretty much unbridled, reckless style play. Now they have to play Dantoni's way, but you can tell when defenses late tighten up, they use that as an excuse to break the offense with a horrible one on one shot... Instead of buckling down and being more intent to run the offense until you get a good shot. they rather break it for their own good... the same went with zach and jamal to an extent.. that is why these guys really don't win...

Good point about teams that night in and night out are 30/10.... If we want that kind of ratio from our PG's then why not the team as a whole?

I hate to confuse this issue with the facts but no team now average close to 30/10 and I doubt any team ever has.
I agree that more assists and less turnovers is a good thing but the 30/10 thing is pulled out of thin air no team even averages 2 to 1 or close to it. And this stat alone doesn't seem like a strong indicator of a teams record.
These are the stats for the 5 best teams in the NBA and the Knicks. Can you even pick the Knicks out of the pack:

22.1/16.1
21.7/15.1
20.3/13.4
23.1/13.8
19.6/14.2
22.7/15.4





[Edited by - oldfan on 01-16-2009 10:33 PM]

(1) I'm going off something I saw years ago, (2) It's Charles Barkley that said it. So I'm sure either I misremembered and I'm sure he exaggerated. The point still holds, teams AST:TO is one of the most important stats when evaluating how a team plays
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
OldFan
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1/16/2009  11:02 PM
Charles Barkley is entertaining but says a lot of BS... and I'd like to agree but from looking at the Stats it looks like AST:TO is only weakly correlated with winning.
SupremeCommander
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1/16/2009  11:18 PM
Posted by OldFan:

Charles Barkley is entertaining but says a lot of BS... and I'd like to agree but from looking at the Stats it looks like AST:TO is only weakly correlated with winning.

It's not like Charles Barkley got up on the podium and said

winning = alpha + beta(team assist:team turnover)

personally, I do think it's one of the more important aspects. That, rebounding, and free throw percentage/FTM. Get the ball, keep the ball, and hit your free attempts.

....


I'd like to see which teams belong to those ratios though... and if you know where to pull up some of the all -time great teams A:TO, I'd like to see that

[Edited by - supremecommander on 01-16-2009 11:21 PM]
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
OldFan
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1/17/2009  12:00 AM
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by OldFan:

Charles Barkley is entertaining but says a lot of BS... and I'd like to agree but from looking at the Stats it looks like AST:TO is only weakly correlated with winning.

It's not like Charles Barkley got up on the podium and said

winning = alpha + beta(team assist:team turnover)

personally, I do think it's one of the more important aspects. That, rebounding, and free throw percentage/FTM. Get the ball, keep the ball, and hit your free attempts.

....


I'd like to see which teams belong to those ratios though... and if you know where to pull up some of the all -time great teams A:TO, I'd like to see that

[Edited by - supremecommander on 01-16-2009 11:21 PM]

I looked for the all time greats (quickly) but didnt find them. I was actually very surprised by the stats I expected more of a difference between the good and bad teams:

22.1/16.1 Boston
21.7/15.1 Knicks
20.3/13.4 Cleveland
23.2/13.8 Lakers
19.6/14.2 Orlando
22.7/15.4 Denver
TMS
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1/17/2009  12:06 AM
This team can't stand prosperity.

come on bro... a 15W - 23L record is prosperity? we all gotta realize this team sucks & will continue to suck until major roster moves are made in 2010... it's not that they can't stand prosperity... they haven't reached that point to begin with & are still far, far away from getting there.
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OldFan
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1/17/2009  12:10 AM
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by OldFan:

Charles Barkley is entertaining but says a lot of BS... and I'd like to agree but from looking at the Stats it looks like AST:TO is only weakly correlated with winning.

It's not like Charles Barkley got up on the podium and said

winning = alpha + beta(team assist:team turnover)

personally, I do think it's one of the more important aspects. That, rebounding, and free throw percentage/FTM. Get the ball, keep the ball, and hit your free attempts.

....


I'd like to see which teams belong to those ratios though... and if you know where to pull up some of the all -time great teams A:TO, I'd like to see that

[Edited by - supremecommander on 01-16-2009 11:21 PM]

Ok maybe I owe Charles and you and apology it seems in years gone by teams had much better assist to to ratios checkout: http://www.nba.com/statistics/encyc/Season.jsp
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1/17/2009  10:53 AM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by GKFv2:

What I meant was, are you going to be posting this here from now on instead of there? But then I forgot you're still a MOD there. For a second I thought you got banned from there.

nah, I will post it over here sometimes... all is good at realgm...

I don't think I like getting left-over, warmed-over realgm posts.
https:// It's not so hard.
tkf
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1/17/2009  11:09 AM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by GKFv2:

What I meant was, are you going to be posting this here from now on instead of there? But then I forgot you're still a MOD there. For a second I thought you got banned from there.

nah, I will post it over here sometimes... all is good at realgm...

I don't think I like getting left-over, warmed-over realgm posts.


push the plate away, I am not holding a gun to your head...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Cosmic
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1/17/2009  3:23 PM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by GKFv2:

Are you importing this from RealGM?

yup..

Nice. I like reading these.

As to the game the first half was a disgrace onto itself I nearly stopped watching. The refs treating the Wiz like the Spurs nearly did it for me.

Then when that late Wizard run happened I just turned it off. I mean, give me a break, how do you do these things out there. Bad teams do this and we're a bad team I guess but still that late run was just absurd no matter who you are.

Thankfully I've got plans tonight so I'm not watching us get torched by the Sixers.
http://popcornmachine.net/ A must-use tool for NBA stat junkies!
BRIGGS
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1/17/2009  3:27 PM
There was only 1 key to this loss--it was called taking way too many low % shots. We need 2-3 different efficient athletic players to move away from this all or nothing offense. The coach needs to sit players and take away they're PT if they continue taking bad shots. He comes of has a hard arse coaching but I don't see the toughness controlling the players actions.
RIP Crushalot😞
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1/17/2009  3:29 PM
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by GKFv2:

Are you importing this from RealGM?

yup..

Nice. I like reading these.

As to the game the first half was a disgrace onto itself I nearly stopped watching. The refs treating the Wiz like the Spurs nearly did it for me.

Then when that late Wizard run happened I just turned it off. I mean, give me a break, how do you do these things out there. Bad teams do this and we're a bad team I guess but still that late run was just absurd no matter who you are.

Thankfully I've got plans tonight so I'm not watching us get torched by the Sixers.



Our coach once again can't sense the internal implosion soon enough allowing it to run it's course. I'm still not impressed with his performance as a coach. He should be the difference in situations like these.
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