Posted by Cosmic:

All I can say is that Mike said early in the year that he wanted to teach them one thing at a time rather than overwhelm them with an entire game plan at once. He said it would be offense first.

Maybe this was where he decided to stress defense. Last night was the first time they played defense and the offense came to them as well.

They've been trying to play this way for quite some time. The offense slowed down a good 15 games ago. The defense showed up a handful of games ago but it seemed to murder their offense. Both sides showed up well against Dallas and Boston. Last night they just did it better that's all.

Think about it: To start the year all they did was run run run. Then they started adding some plays and running. Then they added some slower sets into the offense and did a combination of all. Then the minutes clearly caught up with them and Mike slowed the game down drastically for them - with the exception being - nights we faced teams like say GS who also like to run - against defensive teams we played slower and had for some time. Then we started seeing some defense effort. Then real good effort on D but saw the O collapse. Then a few games where both showed up. Then last night where both showed up and they did both better than previous games.

A lot of this goes on behind the scenes no doubt. I refuse to support the notion of a few that last night Mike decided "Oh heck, I'll start coaching now!" and we're suddenly a solid playoff hopeful. No way no how. He's been trying to get them to do this for a while and as I said it showed up well in a few games and not so well in others - then last night it just came together perfectly.

To expect to see last night every night for the rest of the year would be folly given the known inconsistencies of this team. They should beat the lowly Wizards back to back. Let's see what happens with that before declaring anything from what we saw last night.

+1

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by Cosmic:

All I can say is that Mike said early in the year that he wanted to teach them one thing at a time rather than overwhelm them with an entire game plan at once. He said it would be offense first.

Maybe this was where he decided to stress defense. Last night was the first time they played defense and the offense came to them as well.

They've been trying to play this way for quite some time. The offense slowed down a good 15 games ago. The defense showed up a handful of games ago but it seemed to murder their offense. Both sides showed up well against Dallas and Boston. Last night they just did it better that's all.

Think about it: To start the year all they did was run run run. Then they started adding some plays and running. Then they added some slower sets into the offense and did a combination of all. Then the minutes clearly caught up with them and Mike slowed the game down drastically for them - with the exception being - nights we faced teams like say GS who also like to run - against defensive teams we played slower and had for some time. Then we started seeing some defense effort. Then real good effort on D but saw the O collapse. Then a few games where both showed up. Then last night where both showed up and they did both better than previous games.

A lot of this goes on behind the scenes no doubt. I refuse to support the notion of a few that last night Mike decided "Oh heck, I'll start coaching now!" and we're suddenly a solid playoff hopeful. No way no how. He's been trying to get them to do this for a while and as I said it showed up well in a few games and not so well in others - then last night it just came together perfectly.

To expect to see last night every night for the rest of the year would be folly given the known inconsistencies of this team. They should beat the lowly Wizards back to back. Let's see what happens with that before declaring anything from what we saw last night.

In summary: It's a process

Hi Eric Mangini.

Posted by Bippity10:

Points given up

First 10 games: 105.5 pts per game
games 11-20: 109.7 pts per game(right around the time of the trade)
Games 21-30: 108.6 pts per game
Games 31-36: 98.3 pts per game(97.0 pts per over the last 7-Given up over 100 points once)

So the question is:

Did D'Antoni just sit back for the first 35 games and tell the team to jack up shots and not worry about defense? Did they just figure it out last night?

Next set of questions: If we've truly improved over the last 7 games did D'Antoni suddenly decide defense was important last night and all the other 6 games were luck? Or has he been "coaching" it for a while and we just didn't want to see it because the team lost some bad games?

Next set of questions: Is he a magic coach who says "today we are going to play defense" and suddenly the team doees? Or is he a real coach that has to teach and repeat and push and preach for a few weeks before we see improvement? Two games ago was D'Antoni not coaching and simply sitting back and telling the team to chuck up shots? Or has he been working on better shot selection and defense all year?

Next set of question: When the team was losing and giving up 109.7 points per game did he not care and was content to enjoy the jumpshots but one day decided to listen to UK posters and work on defense? Or did the coaching staff recognize the same problems we have long before we did and has been working on it for weeks

Last set of questions: Does everything happen overnight because the coach finally decides it's important? Or is 99% of the work coaches do, done behind the scenes where we have no idea what is going on?

[Edited by - bippity10 on 13-01-2009 08:55 AM]

Did D'Antoni just sit back for the first 35 games and tell the team to jack up shots and not worry about defense? Did they just figure it out last night?

Next set of questions: If we've truly improved over the last 7 games did D'Antoni suddenly decide defense was important last night and all the other 6 games were luck? Or has he been "coaching" it for a while and we just didn't want to see it because the team lost some bad games?

Next set of questions: Is he a magic coach who says "today we are going to play defense" and suddenly the team doees? Or is he a real coach that has to teach and repeat and push and preach for a few weeks before we see improvement? Two games ago was D'Antoni not coaching and simply sitting back and telling the team to chuck up shots? Or has he been working on better shot selection and defense all year?

Next set of question: When the team was losing and giving up 109.7 points per game did he not care and was content to enjoy the jumpshots but one day decided to listen to UK posters and work on defense? Or did the coaching staff recognize the same problems we have long before we did and has been working on it for weeks

Last set of questions: Does everything happen overnight because the coach finally decides it's important? Or is 99% of the work coaches do, done behind the scenes where we have no idea what is going on?

Posted by Cosmic:

All I can say is that Mike said early in the year that he wanted to teach them one thing at a time rather than overwhelm them with an entire game plan at once. He said it would be offense first.

Maybe this was where he decided to stress defense. Last night was the first time they played defense and the offense came to them as well.

They've been trying to play this way for quite some time. The offense slowed down a good 15 games ago. The defense showed up a handful of games ago but it seemed to murder their offense. Both sides showed up well against Dallas and Boston. Last night they just did it better that's all.

Think about it: To start the year all they did was run run run. Then they started adding some plays and running. Then they added some slower sets into the offense and did a combination of all. Then the minutes clearly caught up with them and Mike slowed the game down drastically for them - with the exception being - nights we faced teams like say GS who also like to run - against defensive teams we played slower and had for some time. Then we started seeing some defense effort. Then real good effort on D but saw the O collapse. Then a few games where both showed up. Then last night where both showed up and they did both better than previous games.

A lot of this goes on behind the scenes no doubt. I refuse to support the notion of a few that last night Mike decided "Oh heck, I'll start coaching now!" and we're suddenly a solid playoff hopeful. No way no how. He's been trying to get them to do this for a while and as I said it showed up well in a few games and not so well in others - then last night it just came together perfectly.

To expect to see last night every night for the rest of the year would be folly given the known inconsistencies of this team. They should beat the lowly Wizards back to back. Let's see what happens with that before declaring anything from what we saw last night.

good post cosmic. Walt and breen even acknowledged the improved defense over the past 7games or so. And when you look at it, we still took 25 threes last night and shot 32%, the key is we took a lot of open threes and hit the big ones down the stretch.

If we can keep up this defense, while scoring, we may win some games..

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Bippity10:

Points given up

First 10 games: 105.5 pts per game
games 11-20: 109.7 pts per game(right around the time of the trade)
Games 21-30: 108.6 pts per game
Games 31-36: 98.3 pts per game(97.0 pts per over the last 7-Given up over 100 points once)

So the question is:

Did D'Antoni just sit back for the first 35 games and tell the team to jack up shots and not worry about defense? Did they just figure it out last night?

Next set of questions: If we've truly improved over the last 7 games did D'Antoni suddenly decide defense was important last night and all the other 6 games were luck? Or has he been "coaching" it for a while and we just didn't want to see it because the team lost some bad games?

Next set of questions: Is he a magic coach who says "today we are going to play defense" and suddenly the team doees? Or is he a real coach that has to teach and repeat and push and preach for a few weeks before we see improvement? Two games ago was D'Antoni not coaching and simply sitting back and telling the team to chuck up shots? Or has he been working on better shot selection and defense all year?

Next set of question: When the team was losing and giving up 109.7 points per game did he not care and was content to enjoy the jumpshots but one day decided to listen to UK posters and work on defense? Or did the coaching staff recognize the same problems we have long before we did and has been working on it for weeks

Last set of questions: Does everything happen overnight because the coach finally decides it's important? Or is 99% of the work coaches do, done behind the scenes where we have no idea what is going on?

[Edited by - bippity10 on 13-01-2009 08:55 AM]

Did D'Antoni just sit back for the first 35 games and tell the team to jack up shots and not worry about defense? Did they just figure it out last night?

Tell me, what was D'Antoni's reputation coming into this season? What was his self described "System" about? Do you honestly think that it was an accident that this team seemed to "jack up shots and not worry about defense"? You must think D'Antoni is a God awful coach to take this long to reign in his team if they were doing things for 35 games that he doesn't want them to do.

Next set of questions: If we've truly improved over the last 7 games did D'Antoni suddenly decide defense was important last night and all the other 6 games were luck? Or has he been "coaching" it for a while and we just didn't want to see it because the team lost some bad games?

While I don't disagree that it's a process, don't just lump games based on ppg averages. Or maybe you think it was magic that they went from their opponents averaging 120 ppg in the 3 games prior to those 7 games where D'Antoni started "coaching" defense. Personally, I think for the majority of those 7 games, it was D'Antoni's decision to slow things down that caused their opp ppg avg to come down and not simply better defense. Last night was the exception of course when there was an obvious increase in defensive intensity and the team finally looked like they had a clue. I'm pretty sure that wasn't the case just a few games ago in Oklahoma City or Houston where the immortal Von Wafer and Aaron Brooks killed us.

Next set of questions: Is he a magic coach who says "today we are going to play defense" and suddenly the team doees? Or is he a real coach that has to teach and repeat and push and preach for a few weeks before we see improvement? Two games ago was D'Antoni not coaching and simply sitting back and telling the team to chuck up shots? Or has he been working on better shot selection and defense all year?

Again, if they weren't playing D'Antoni's "system" all year up to the last few games then you must think he's an awful coach that it took him 35 games and 2 1/2 months to finally reign in his team. I'm pretty sure DJ has no axe to grind since he's a Raptors fan, so why was it so obvious to him that there haven't been any discernible adjustments being made on offense until last night? Go over the last 6 game threads prior to last night and despite "slowing things down" the team was still chucking up shots early in the shot clock and playing matador D. Obviously last night D'Antoni started making adjustments and demanding more from his team instead of just letting them continue playing the way they had been for a majority of the season.

Next set of question: When the team was losing and giving up 109.7 points per game did he not care and was content to enjoy the jumpshots but one day decided to listen to UK posters and work on defense? Or did the coaching staff recognize the same problems we have long before we did and has been working on it for weeks

No, I doubt that UK posters had anything to do with it. I think that with his system, he disregards the 109.7 opp ppg. He's admitted as much that his only concern is his offense. I firmly believe that if that weren't the case, things would have slowed down and adjustments/improvements on defense would have been noticable a lot sooner than they have been. I'm pretty sure you, nor I, have any idea what they've been working on. But the only thing we can judge is what we see on the court during games. Based on that, I think it's safe to say that until very recently, defense hasn't been a top priority behind closed doors.

Last set of questions: Does everything happen overnight because the coach finally decides it's important? Or is 99% of the work coaches do, done behind the scenes where we have no idea what is going on?

Like I said, we both have no idea what is going on behind the scenes. But things don't suddenly manifest themselves after months of work. Simple adjustments and prodding for better effort can and usually do happen from game to game. Just look at how teams make adjustments from game to game during the course of a playoff series. Is the learning curve really that much greater for these players than they are for even an 8th seed, that what one team figures out in an off day, it takes these players months to learn? Oh wait, I forgot, it's all this rosters fault and it's not worth trying to coach them.

Posted by Bippity10:

Oh wait, I forgot, it's all this rosters fault and it's not worth trying to coach them.

I always thought of you as a funny guy who got on people's nerves but argued points, and was "your biggest supporter" during your banning. But I guess I might have been wrong. You want to talk and discuss basketball or do you want to be a 6 year old and keep bringing up the same nonsense that was never said. I'm all for the debate, but this nonsense I think I wasted far too much time talking about. I don't come here to flame and misrepresent. I come here to discuss. Point out where I said it isn't worth trying to coach them or move on already. These are the conversations I expect to have with the children of the board, never expected it from you. But I guess at times I'm too trusting.

Posted by martin:

Posted by Bippity10:

Oh wait, I forgot, it's all this rosters fault and it's not worth trying to coach them.

I always thought of you as a funny guy who got on people's nerves but argued points, and was "your biggest supporter" during your banning. But I guess I might have been wrong. You want to talk and discuss basketball or do you want to be a 6 year old and keep bringing up the same nonsense that was never said. I'm all for the debate, but this nonsense I think I wasted far too much time talking about. I don't come here to flame and misrepresent. I come here to discuss. Point out where I said it isn't worth trying to coach them or move on already. These are the conversations I expect to have with the children of the board, never expected it from you. But I guess at times I'm too trusting.

same. Isles, you are turning into "you add nothing" poster again. Your baseball talk it OK but you suck as discussing Knicks.

Posted by Bippity10:

Oh wait, I forgot, it's all this rosters fault and it's not worth trying to coach them.

I always thought of you as a funny guy who got on people's nerves but argued points, and was "your biggest supporter" during your banning. But I guess I might have been wrong. You want to talk and discuss basketball or do you want to be a 6 year old and keep bringing up the same nonsense that was never said. I'm all for the debate, but this nonsense I think I wasted far too much time talking about. I don't come here to flame and misrepresent. I come here to discuss. Point out where I said it isn't worth trying to coach them or move on already. These are the conversations I expect to have with the children of the board, never expected it from you. But I guess at times I'm too trusting.

Because for you there is no process. There are just magic coaches that come in and wave a wand and the team is better.