i'm watching knicks in 60 and the offensive play sets are downright terrible.

3 knicks are parked at the 3 point line just watching every single play. in most cases, FOUR knicks are standing at the 3 point line watching stuff.

they don't send anybody on the offensive glass. they don't run any picks or screens for players away from the ball. nobody cuts into the paint.

there is NO movement.

and duhon is not good enough to create for others.

i'm not hating here. i thought the d'antoni hiring is a homerun for the knicks. i also thought he had alot to prove (just like riley did when he got here). but i would have to say that for being an offensive guru, his offensive plays are really not that special. in fact, they're quite elementary.

So it's his offense and not the players, correct? Duhon is OK but not a starter. Marbury wouldn't have done any better. Nate? LOL @ him at PG. Then you have Crawford 2 at forward (Al Harrington) who I could care less about since he is gone in 2 years. Who else? Lee has an offensive game? what can Q do? Tim Thomas? Curry? What? Who's left? Malik and Roberson? The personnel sucks. I'm pretty sure it's not the offense. Besides Duhon and the recently acquired Harrington, the guys I mentioned are all former Isiah Thomas acquisitions - including Tim Thomas.

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by GKFv2:

So it's his offense and not the players, correct? Duhon is OK but not a starter. Marbury wouldn't have done any better. Nate? LOL @ him at PG. Then you have Crawford 2 at forward (Al Harrington) who I could care less about since he is gone in 2 years. Who else? Lee has an offensive game? what can Q do? Tim Thomas? Curry? What? Who's left? Malik and Roberson? The personnel sucks. I'm pretty sure it's not the offense. Besides Duhon and the recently acquired Harrington, the guys I mentioned are all former Isiah Thomas acquisitions - including Tim Thomas.

watching how this whole offense is predicated on the pg penetrating into the lane, marbury would trump duhon tenfold.

forget the players for a second. they don't run any plays. it's one on one. stop looking at it in such extreme terms. yes, they don't have the talent, but i don't think d'antoni is maximizing their potential.

This is a joke, right? So how many coaches must we go through to "maximize the potential" of a bunch of losers with a low basketball IQ? If you haven't noticed, basketball IQ is key in this league. The entire Knicks team has to be one of the dumbest in the NBA. But yeah. It's time to fire D'Antoni. Maybe we can have Red Holzman's corpse try to win with these guys.

[Edited by - gkfv2 on 01-11-2009 01:25 AM]

Posted by djsunyc:

fire d'antoni? you're too extreme and too emotional. i said nothing of the sort.

they run 1 single offensive play. pick and roll with duhon + lee. that's it. i'm sorry, but d'antoni's offensive playbook is 1 page long. it's starting to look like he's in coast mode right now.

Didn't see tonights game, but as a coach, I can assure you D'Antoni has really good offensive sets. I think he's dumbed down some things here, but he has some beautiful plays that even Coach K has incorporated.

Posted by Uptown:

Posted by djsunyc:

fire d'antoni? you're too extreme and too emotional. i said nothing of the sort.

they run 1 single offensive play. pick and roll with duhon + lee. that's it. i'm sorry, but d'antoni's offensive playbook is 1 page long. it's starting to look like he's in coast mode right now.

Didn't see tonights game, but as a coach, I can assure you D'Antoni has really good offensive sets. I think he's dumbed down some things here, but he has some beautiful plays that even Coach K has incorporated.

Yup, our players aren't good enough to be in the D'Antoni offense. Duhon is good, but he's got no talent around him. Harrington is a nice scorer and can D' up a little, but Don Nelson mocked the crap out of the guy when he was in GS. The "System" requires players who are fundamentally sound, and if the "System" doesn't have it, then how else can it be run? Especially if no guys are hitting shots. This isn't D'Antoni's fault. This is rebuilding.

Posted by djsunyc:

fire d'antoni? you're too extreme and too emotional. i said nothing of the sort.

they run 1 single offensive play. pick and roll with duhon + lee. that's it. i'm sorry, but d'antoni's offensive playbook is 1 page long. it's starting to look like he's in coast mode right now.

There are no shooters on this team. He does run more than one play but many of them are broken. You didn't say to fire him, you're right. Yet you made a topic complaining about his coaching. When you fail to regard the roster and blame the coach it basically comes down to the fact that you are unhappy with the coach and want a change if things do not improve.

Posted by GKFv2:

Posted by djsunyc:

fire d'antoni? you're too extreme and too emotional. i said nothing of the sort.

they run 1 single offensive play. pick and roll with duhon + lee. that's it. i'm sorry, but d'antoni's offensive playbook is 1 page long. it's starting to look like he's in coast mode right now.

There are no shooters on this team. He does run more than one play but many of them are broken. You didn't say to fire him, you're right. Yet you made a topic complaining about his coaching. When you fail to regard the roster and blame the coach it basically comes down to the fact that you are unhappy with the coach and want a change if things do not improve.

Will a 30win or less season be acceptable to you next yr because it's all about 2010? Don't Pussyfoot around the question either.

personally speaking nothing would make me happier than another 20 something win season... all the better to get a higher lottery pick... this season means nothing to me other than setting ourselves up to be in a better position in 2010... that means dumping bad contracts when we can, amassing trade assets when we can, & for MDA to figure out who he wants to run with & who he wants to get rid of & for Walsh to figure out how to get the most out of those pieces that MDA deems are not a great fit for the system he plans to run.

Posted by GallOfFame:

Posted by GKFv2:

Posted by djsunyc:

fire d'antoni? you're too extreme and too emotional. i said nothing of the sort.

they run 1 single offensive play. pick and roll with duhon + lee. that's it. i'm sorry, but d'antoni's offensive playbook is 1 page long. it's starting to look like he's in coast mode right now.

There are no shooters on this team. He does run more than one play but many of them are broken. You didn't say to fire him, you're right. Yet you made a topic complaining about his coaching. When you fail to regard the roster and blame the coach it basically comes down to the fact that you are unhappy with the coach and want a change if things do not improve.

Will a 30win or less season be acceptable to you next yr because it's all about 2010? Don't Pussyfoot around the question either.

Wins are totally meaningless in judging this team this season and next. Obviously losing games is more beneficial to the organization but teaching the kids the fundamentals they'll need in D'Antoni's system needs to be happening now, not in 2010. That's the only barometer that the Knicks should be judged on over the next 2 years. One quarter into that 2 years, there's been no improvement and no coaching to be seen anywhere.

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by GallOfFame:

Posted by GKFv2:

Posted by djsunyc:

fire d'antoni? you're too extreme and too emotional. i said nothing of the sort.

they run 1 single offensive play. pick and roll with duhon + lee. that's it. i'm sorry, but d'antoni's offensive playbook is 1 page long. it's starting to look like he's in coast mode right now.

There are no shooters on this team. He does run more than one play but many of them are broken. You didn't say to fire him, you're right. Yet you made a topic complaining about his coaching. When you fail to regard the roster and blame the coach it basically comes down to the fact that you are unhappy with the coach and want a change if things do not improve.

Will a 30win or less season be acceptable to you next yr because it's all about 2010? Don't Pussyfoot around the question either.

Wins are totally meaningless in judging this team this season and next. Obviously losing games is more beneficial to the organization but teaching the kids the fundamentals they'll need in D'Antoni's system needs to be happening now, not in 2010. That's the only barometer that the Knicks should be judged on over the next 2 years. One quarter into that 2 years, there's been no improvement and no coaching to be seen anywhere.

I agree I'm asking the question from a pure principle aspect. I prefer the losses. Actually maximizing the 2008 and 2009 draft was/is the most important process into this rebuild. Even more so than hiring a coach or FA. What I know is Isiah, Mark Jackson, Herb Williams, Vinny Del Negro, Terry Porter could get us a 13-22 record right now. What makes Pringles special? What validates him getting paid 4yrs $24mil to coast? He's done a terrible job coaching. The reason I'm pointing this out because he was receiving Kudos early on winning with Isiah's main cog's, now that we're losing after they've been traded away stating trades made us better, he's Scott Free from blame and it's all on the players.


[Edited by - GallOfFame on 01-11-2009 03:30 AM]

Posted by GallOfFame:

Posted by GKFv2:

Posted by djsunyc:

fire d'antoni? you're too extreme and too emotional. i said nothing of the sort.

they run 1 single offensive play. pick and roll with duhon + lee. that's it. i'm sorry, but d'antoni's offensive playbook is 1 page long. it's starting to look like he's in coast mode right now.

There are no shooters on this team. He does run more than one play but many of them are broken. You didn't say to fire him, you're right. Yet you made a topic complaining about his coaching. When you fail to regard the roster and blame the coach it basically comes down to the fact that you are unhappy with the coach and want a change if things do not improve.

Will a 30win or less season be acceptable to you next yr because it's all about 2010? Don't Pussyfoot around the question either.

Yes and for the same reasons everyone else listed. It's not about the wins for me because I can see the bigger picture. I can see the light at the end of that tunnel that never existed under Layden and Isiah. 2010 is just the beginning of that light. Getting quality players in here with a high basketball IQ and work ethic while also developing our young guys like Chandler and Gallinari is our only goal. It's not about the wins, it's about what we are doing with our roster. How we are shaping it and how we are shaping our young players. I never expected to be winning just because we got a new coach and GM and basically kept the same team until we traded Zach and Crawford. I knew if we kept the same team that we would go right back to the 23 win ways. We might even go back to that with this team but at least we are actually building something here rather than watching Crawford and his large contract chuck shots and Curry wasting minutes on the court, as well as Marbury being an annoying embarrassment.