Just curious what you guys think. Maybe instead of cleaning house maybe we should concentrate on getting Lee and Nate resigned ASAP then resign Duhon and Harrington when the time comes. Regarding David Lee - remember, perfect world, and I'm sure I'm speaking for most of us out there, you want to keep this guy. But obviously you don't want to lose him for nothing if he becomes unaffordable, hence the hypothetical trade speculation. But in my book, if there's a way to keep him and still go out and get the star in 2010, you do it. Maybe that's the way to go instead of cleaning it all out soup to nuts to get 2 big names in the $15-20 million dollar a year range. I'm no accountant and I haven't really crunched the numbers but I know some of you have - is there a way where that could feasibly work? There's a lot of nice parts in place right now that could really work provided we added a few more things - namely the star player, another big skilled frontcourt player with some defensive ability and some more quality guard depth. We do have 2 draft picks coming up next summer to help take care of at least some of that.

I know the Kings are terrible and it's hard to take a lot away from last night's win but things have really been falling into place lately for this team rather nicely. They've jelled and become tough and very competitive. Al Harrington's comfortably moved right into the role of the team's de facto leader and best player - right now, tell me what the difference is between Al Harrington and Carmelo Anthony??? And I'm saying that with a straight face mind you. Answer - not much of a difference at all. That's how far Al's game has come in my mind - he's basically what amounts to an east coast version of Carmelo Anthony right now - right on that level. David Lee's doing his thing which might never be all-star like but he's relentless hustle, smarts and double-double material every single night against any team out there. Nate's just a great energizer that you don't want to let get away and Duhon's proved to be a very capable floor general. Why break that up??? Break all those players and that good chemistry up just to get an Amare Stoudamire in here and basically start over with the rest? Not sure that makes any sense. I'd like to keep as much as we have intact and add two more quality players in the draft which I think is more than possible, then reassess. Maybe then we'd have enough in place to lure LeBron where Bron says, "I'm the difference. I'm going to NY to go for it." And shoot, the $100 million dollar deal he's supposed to get from Nike if he became a Knick - if that's true, that'll play a big role in his decision I'm sure. How could it not?? Again, I know you guys have discussed this before and for the first time I'm inclined to agree with you... At this point I'd want to add LeBron to a core of Lee, Nate, Duhon, Chandler, Harrington and two useful players in the draft. Plus Gallinari or maybe we can use Gallo to help us fill a need. I know that's the way to go now - just tell me, is it possible?


[Edited by - finestrg on 12-14-2008 04:04 AM]

If we came up with a way to keep most of these secondary components intact, you gotta ask yourself how much worse off would LeBron be playing with our guys than his? Personally, with D'Antoni as head coach which is a big difference maker IMO, I think he could do more playing with our guys than with that group.

Compare players on our roster (specifically guys that we want to keep around when he's a FA and guys that we might not be able to move in time) to the supporting cast he's currently playing with in Cleveland:

Chris Duhon vs. Mo Williams - Slight edge Cavs but it's really a wash. Mo Williams is a little more of a scorer, Duhon's a better distributor and possibly a better defender as well.

Nate Robinson vs. Delonte West/Daniel Gibson - I'd rather have Nate. Edge Knicks.

Big Z/Varejao/JJ Hickson/older Ben Wallace vs. Lee/Gallinari/possibly Eddy Curry & Jeffries - we don't currently have an answer for Big Z's size but he's nothing special and winding down as a player. And I think we can all agree Lee's better than Varejao, Hickson and an almost washed up Ben Wallace. Curry's still young and could work his way back into being a factor, either to contribute or to be used to clear cap room. Gallinari's hurt but appears to have a lot of talent and versatility. Jeffries is limited but back healthy and having an impact with his mobility & size. Edge: even right now/edge Knicks when everyone's healthy.

Wally/Gibson/Pavlovic vs. Chandler/Nate - Edge Knicks.

*Plus two important things going for us over the Cavs - they have no 2nd banana on that team nearly as good as Al Harrington and we'll have better draft picks than Cleveland next summer. Big edge Knicks.

I understand that Cleveland can turn around and add a big name to their roster in 2010 that could tip the scale back in their favor - I get that. Say LeBron does stay with the Cavs - OK, would a 2010 FA big man (Amare or Bosh) and a resigned Al Harrington be enough star power to get us over the hump if we retained most of our solid core??? It might...


[Edited by - finestrg on 12-14-2008 05:23 AM]

lets see what we think after playing phoenix, LA and boston.

Posted by TMS:

if u resign Al, Duhon, Lee & Nate that pretty much squashes any 2010 plans altogether (including Lebron)... i highly doubt Donnie Walsh made all those moves so he could retain those guys on the roster before 2010 arrives bro.

Yeah you're right. I was lazy last night, but I just did the numbers. Say the salary cap's at about $60 million for the 2010/2011 season. The NBA is a lucrative money maker - I don't see the cap really coming back at all despite the economy. Collectively, the money owners might spend might come down some, but I doubt the league would cut the cap which could cut down on the amount of player movement and the excitement that would generate. Player movement, esp. some big stars, could be a good thing for the league, a healthy thing and a prosperous thing. As in LeBron coming to NYC. The rumor is Nike's prepared to give LeBron $100 million dollars to continue to endorse their products but now as a Knick - Nike understands how much excitement LeBron would bring to the overpopulated Tri-State area and how much their sales would increase. Why would the NBA screw with that same ideology?? Why would they shoot themselves in the foot like that by shrinking their cap? No guarantees of course, but I'd be willing to bet that the cap stabilizes or slightly increases as per usual - I have a hard time seeing how it suddenly gets cut back 8-10 million and how that would benefit the league...

Anyway here's how the cap looks right now for 2010/2011:

Curry, Jeffries, Gallinari & Chandler all clock in at $18,160,263.

Harrington - $10 million
Lee - 10
Duhon - 7 (remember Duhon came in very overpaid already - they overpaid to get him for the 2 yr deal they wanted - so even with him putting up the good numbers, how much more money does he really deserve? I mean is he really as good as Nate and Nate's gonna get 6 or 7?? I have a hard time seeing Duhon in the $8-10 million dollar range).
Nate - 7
Our 2 draft picks next summer - 2.5/1
--------------------------------------

So you're right. That's over $55.5 million right there and that's not even counting a potential summer of 2010 draft pick or two and players to fill out the roster along the way. The whole dream of adding to the suddenly solid core solely hinges on whether or not Donnie can move Curry and Jeffries within the next year+ for shorter contracts that expire by 2010. That would free up over $17 million to add the star player and preserve the core. I never really sat down and looked at the numbers until now - Donnie still has his best work ahead of him. At least Randolph and Crawford could play - Curry and Jeffries are a couple of stiffs... Very frustrating situation we're in....


[Edited by - finestrg on 12-14-2008 12:58 PM]

Wish I had a better answer but its too early to tell right now. Just Lebron + a number one pick that we really hit on could make us a contender. But there are several questions to ask. Are Duhon and Harrington really for real with this level of play? Can Nate, Lee and Chandler stay healthy and keep improving?

Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh could come as a package to NYK. (Both are represented by Henry Thomas)

Give me the Two Big Names!

Just did a little homework - we actually don't have a 2nd rounder next summer. It goes to Chicago in the Curry trade. In 2010 we get the extra 2nd rounder from Denver from the Balkman trade.

A shame because I like a lot of the talent projected to go in the 2nd round as of right now. This might be the year to purchase that extra pick.

Posted by Knicksfan:

Posted by Finestrg:

Just did a little homework - we actually don't have a 2nd rounder next summer. It goes to Chicago in the Curry trade. In 2010 we get the extra 2nd rounder from Denver from the Balkman trade.

A shame because I like a lot of the talent projected to go in the 2nd round as of right now. This might be the year to purchase that extra pick.

I think Chicago has the right to switch 2nd rounders, but we do keep a pick.

I don't think so bro. You're thinking of the part of the trade where Chicago had the right to switch 1st rounders in 2007 which they exercised by taking Joakim Noah 9th overall, leaving us with the 23rd pick where we took Chandler. But yeah if I read it all correctly we have no 2009 2nd rounder - it goes to Chicago.

http://www.insidehoops.com/curry-trade-knicks-100405.shtml



[Edited by - finestrg on 12-14-2008 8:45 PM]

Here's the priority list of what needs to go down for us -

(1) Donnie first has to try like heck to deal Curry and Jeffries for contracts that expire by 2010. If he accomplished that, that's $17 million dollars freed up to add a BIG FA to the core. If that proves impossible however -

(2) A decision then needs to be made with the core of Harrington, Lee, Nate and Duhon. It's gonna take about $34 million to start all of these guys off with new contracts that first year in 2010. Duhon might have to be let go and replaced (-7) as will Harrington (-10). I'd love to find a way to keep both, esp. Harrington as he's playing great and would be that second star to add to a LeBron or a Bosh, but it just may not be possible. We then could reup Lee and Nate to proper market value and use the Harrington and Duhon money to get 1 star FA. OR, they could trade Lee and let Duhon walk to open up the $17 million that way - after thinking about it, Lee can only be traded for the salary-controlled rookie-type contract(s) of either one or two promising young players and/or draft picks. I really don't see how anything else would really help us when it comes to 2010. I've been saying stuff like Francisco Garcia & Shelden Williams for Lee or some combo. of Detroit players like Maxiell/Afflalo/Johnson/Bynum/Herrmann in S&T scenarios would make for fair trades -- now while I still believe that to be true, it doesn't help us when it comes to 2010. If they're gonna trade Lee they need to do it now to a team with cap room for rookie contracts with the idea that his new team gives him the raise when the time comes. That's the only way I see moving Lee benefiting us regarding 2010 free agency. But looking around the league, it's tough trying to find a match for what we need in return. Something with Houston like Lee for Joey Dorsey and Aaron Brooks is intriguing (we'd get a promising young athletic big with upside and a heck of a young athletic PG with a lot of ability to replace Duhon) but I'm not too sure how much sense it makes for Houston. Sure they could use Lee but they already have a Lee-lite version basically in Carl Landry who's aggressive & playing pretty well, they really need Brooks as he's their only backup to Alston right now with Steve Francis' rehab coming along very slowly and if I'm the Knicks I'd also require a future 1st back in that deal but Houston's surprisingly devoid of 1st round picks the next two drafts. I'll continue to look for a match that makes some sense... In the meantime -

(3) Walsh needs to get a player in the draft that can help - if we continue playing around .500 ball, we'll be right around the middle of the first round when we select. So instead of guys like Griffin, Thabeet and Curry, now were looking at guys like Patrick Mills, Jordan Hill, Tyler Hansbrough, Ty Lawson or Wayne Ellington. Also, we should really try to come up with a way to acquire a high 2nd round pick because there will be a lot of talent projected to go in the 2nd round that could help us - guys at multiple positions (PFs, SGs, PGs) - Taj Gibson, Jeff Adrien, Jarvis Varnado, Dionte Christmas, Robert Vaden, AJ Price, AJ Abrams, Jack McClinton, Jeremy Pargo, etc... Dealing Lee to move up in the draft could be an option although I think we'd be talking S&T with another team at that point where we'd be expected to take back contracts as well as any draft upgrade...


[Edited by - finestrg on 12-14-2008 10:11 PM]

Posted by JohnWallace44:

We have to figure this out... Can we resign players like Al after singing Max$ FA's in 2010?

Actually you're right. How it works is we would HAVE to sign Al after signing the major FA's for us to get them all. Al's contract only doesn't count against the cap is if we resign him when we are over the cap.

Ideally, this is what I would like to see.....
Change in Team Outlook: -12.3 ppg, -9.1 rpg, and -0.9 apg.
Incoming Players
Jared Jeffries
6-11 SF from Indiana
5.2 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 0.8 apg in 16.9 minutes
Eddy Curry
6-11 C from Thornwood (HS)
No games yet played in 2008-2009
Outgoing Players
Amir Johnson
6-9 SF / PF from Weschester (HS)
5.1 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 0.3 apg in 16.1 minutes
Rasheed Wallace
6-11 PF / C from North Carolina
12.4 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 1.4 apg in 33.9 minutes

Or this...

Making use of the $1.4 mil trade exemption:

Curry for Stackhouse

Posted by VDesai:

Joec- We wouldn't be able to sign any FA's or free up cap space unless we renounced the rights to Al Harrington. In which case we wouldn't have his bird rights and would not be able to go over the cap to resign him.

Oh. My bad.