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Why are we getting out-rebounded??
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Elite
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11/18/2008  1:30 PM
Right now we are getting outrebounded by SEVEN per game.. that is really bad.. Worst in the league by far.

Last year we only got outrebounded by 0.01 per game.. so it was pretty much even... Why the huge drop?
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Bippity10
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11/18/2008  1:35 PM
Pf playing center
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Each on their own could hold their own. Together they are overmatched
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Allanfan20
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11/18/2008  1:39 PM
Maybe we could put Curry in for some hustle rebounds.
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martin
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11/18/2008  1:46 PM
Lee is hurt too.
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Bippity10
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11/18/2008  1:47 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

Maybe we could put Curry in for some hustle rebounds.

It's funny that adding a 7 foot 300 lb center to the mix would probably make the problem worse
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EnySpree
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11/18/2008  1:54 PM
Well the Knicks are now out of position cuz of the running game there's also the size issue.

At the same time it doesn't seem to effect Zach.
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Silverfuel
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11/18/2008  1:56 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

Well the Knicks are now out of position cuz of the running game there's also the size issue.

At the same time it doesn't seem to effect Zach.
agreed! Zach is playing great bball. I still think we should trade him but I wouldn't have a big problem with him staying.
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VDesai
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11/18/2008  1:58 PM
We are tiny and we're hitting a higher percentage of our shots.
Elite
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11/18/2008  2:32 PM
all this "we are small" stuff... so are you all basically saying we miss Eddy Curry? Cuz he is the only difference in terms of "size" from last year
Pharzeone
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11/18/2008  2:35 PM
Posted by VDesai:

We are tiny and we're hitting a higher percentage of our shots.

Bingo. Knicks are shooting better and taking more 3 pointers. Not that many changes to get offensive rebounds.
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Bippity10
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11/18/2008  2:37 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by VDesai:

We are tiny and we're hitting a higher percentage of our shots.

Bingo. Knicks are shooting better and taking more 3 pointers. Not that many changes to get offensive rebounds.

Most rebounds are defensive rebounds. So if we shot worse our differentiall would most likely get worse, wouldn't it?
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EnySpree
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11/18/2008  3:22 PM
Posted by Elite:

all this "we are small" stuff... so are you all basically saying we miss Eddy Curry? Cuz he is the only difference in terms of "size" from last year

I think we all are too pissed at Eddy Curry to count on him for anything.

Wish the Knicks had a shot at Brad Miller.
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Cosmic
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11/18/2008  3:52 PM
Posted by martin:

Lee is hurt too.

That and the style of play has certainly affected how a guy like LEE gets his rebounds. I think that's one reason his numbers are down.

Another is player usage. Zach and Lee starting - hasn't affected Zach's totals but has clearly affected Lee's.

Another thing to look at would be offensive rebounds something we excelled at last year for in a half court offense you're more likely to grab your own miss than in a fast paced offense which features a lot of 1-3 or 2-4 offensive plays where a quick shot goes up - no chance at an O board.

Finally, SHOOTING PERCENTAGES. We've shot a much higher percentage, so has our opponent, so there are less rebounds to be had.


....I have not bothered to support any of my POVs with any stats, just, laying out the possibilities.

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martin
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11/18/2008  3:55 PM
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by martin:

Lee is hurt too.

That and the style of play has certainly affected how a guy like LEE gets his rebounds. I think that's one reason his numbers are down.

Lee got bone spurs in his foot. Don't know what that relates to your argument but it's there.

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Cosmic
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11/18/2008  4:07 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by martin:

Lee is hurt too.

That and the style of play has certainly affected how a guy like LEE gets his rebounds. I think that's one reason his numbers are down.

Lee got bone spurs in his foot. Don't know what that relates to your argument but it's there.

Oh, I know he's got his issues, but my argument is he used to come off the bench when he got his bigger rebounding numbers. When he started with Zach that left Zach a tenacious rebounder getting the necessary boards which automatically meant Lee wouldn't get as many because he's spending a lot of time on the court with Zach when he didn't as much last season. So there are less total opportunities - and given Zach is the more dedicated rebounder - it makes sense Zach still gets his while Lee's dropped.

Even with Chandler starting it sure seems that Lee and Zach are together up front an awful lot - again - making the point that if you put two 20-rebound guys (or whatever) on the court together - when they used to not be on the court together - someone's going to suffer and you're not going to get 40 rebounds out of the two. Somebody's stats will go down. Lee's had.

As to the team rebounds the style of play is ultimately to blame. There's more running, there's more taken shots but likely much more made shots than before, and there's just going to be less rebounds to claim.

Especially as I said when we have so many plays where 2 or 3 guards are flying up the court trying to make a quick strike - your chances of an offensive board on a missed shot in that style of play dramatically decrease from a standard half court 5 on 5 set play where your big men are already up there in position to grab a lucky O board.

I don't have the time nor patience to look up all those stats but if anyone wants to either to figure out exactly what goes on or disprove my opinion more power to 'em.

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Pharzeone
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11/18/2008  4:09 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by VDesai:

We are tiny and we're hitting a higher percentage of our shots.

Bingo. Knicks are shooting better and taking more 3 pointers. Not that many changes to get offensive rebounds.

Most rebounds are defensive rebounds. So if we shot worse our differentiall would most likely get worse, wouldn't it?

Lee and Randolph are really talented at getting offensive rebounds. Lee's offensive rebounds are half what they were last year and we don't have Curry or Balkman who both average nearly 2 offensive rebounds a game. Zach improved is his offensive rebounds but not enough to make up for the lost of those two. This 7 seconds or less can't be helping either. More opportunities for opponents to get defensive rebounds if the Knicks are taking more shots combined with the fact that if you take more threes you are less likely to get offensive rebounds. Our guards are big time rebounders to begin with specifically Crawford. I know D'Antoni has been pleading for them to get better but I don't see it.
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oohah
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11/18/2008  4:10 PM
Oh, I know he's got his issues, but my argument is he used to come off the bench when he got his bigger rebounding numbers. When he started with Zach that left Zach a tenacious rebounder getting the necessary boards which automatically meant Lee wouldn't get as many because he's spending a lot of time on the court with Zach when he didn't as much last season. So there are less total opportunities - and given Zach is the more dedicated rebounder - it makes sense Zach still gets his while Lee's dropped.

Exactly. That is another reason why Lee has played so much better off of the bench outside of the fact that he is better suited to that role. Once Lee isn't competing with Randolph for boards, he gets more boards.

oohah

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TMS
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11/18/2008  5:01 PM
because everyone's launching up 3's from the perimeter & guys are making shots so there's less of an opportunity for second chance baskets.

anyway the only stat that matters is us outscoring the other team... right now the Knicks are the top scoring team in the NBA at 105.7 pg.
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Ira
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11/18/2008  6:13 PM
This is just a guess, but it could be a coaching matter. There's an issue of which players are supposed to crash the boards and which are supposed to get back on defense (or release on the fast break). I don't know what MickeyD is telling the players, but it could influence rebounding numbers.
BigC
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11/18/2008  6:59 PM
As long as the Knicks keep on shooting a high percentage they will have less rebounds. If you see more brick shots and slow it up then you see our rebounds increasing.
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