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Dose of Reality: 2010 is a myth- this franchis is FIVE years away from being put on the right path
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franco12
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11/4/2008  8:17 AM
Where is the franchise talent coming from. There is no way LeBron comes here.

Maybe we get Bosh, and as good as he is, how much better than Zach is he? Leadership, clearly yes, but statistically, is he that much better.

Even if you say Bosh is 10x better than Zach, Bosh ain't taking this assorted cast of one dimensional role players out of the first round.

What is coming up in terms of talent for this team. A 2009 draft pick that might be decent. A 2010 draft pick that goes elsewhere and a slight shot at cap room.

2011 is probably the year we'll actually have cap room.

But seriously, what players on this roster are going to be here and are wanted?

I hope Walsh realizes this this season, and looks to move players like Crawford and Curry that might have value to teams during the trading deadline.

I count four players that can stay: Lee, Nate, Chandler & Gallo.

None of these four are stars, or likely to become stars. We might have 2 future starters on a 2013 team.
AUTOADVERT
Cosmic
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11/4/2008  8:35 AM
It could take up to three years to purge the roster and be heading in an actual building forward direction of adding talent that will count. That talent could take about 2 years to get it going. So, yeah, five years sounds right --- BUT --- you better see that plan unfolding real nicely by year 3 or else it IS time to pull the plug. There's got to be a bench mark in there somewhere that must be met.


As to the roster. At this point the only players I like are Nate, Lee, and Chandler. Yet I realistically picture them as 3 guys who round out your 8 or 9 man rotation on a winning team. So until that's the case then even those three can't be called keepers. The jury is out on Gallo of course and the rest of the roster is an epic joke all 11 of them and they all must be gone no excuses.
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anrst
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11/4/2008  8:48 AM
every single player on this roster needs to be replaced.
mythfaze
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11/4/2008  8:49 AM
We've only played three games and we've taken two keys from last season (Curry, Marbury) out of the rotation. This team should have a transformed identity in the locker room and on the court by the end of the season. If someone had told me it would take a year to clear the air from all the past drama, put certain players in their place and form an identity/specific style of play I would be pretty pleased with that. Give it time, lets see what happens. (But yes, the last two games were atrocious.)
EwingsGlass
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11/4/2008  8:55 AM
I disagree with the 'pull the plug' theory. It took the Spurs a long time with both David Robinson and Tim Duncan before they looked like contenders. I would say that you keep adding pieces. If Bosh is not the cog that you can build around to get a championship, I don't sign him. I think he made big strides between last year and this year in the olympics, but I think his defense is suspect. I wouldn't add Bosh unless I have room to add him and another star caliber player. 2010, I would try and purge the roster enough to sign to stars in a package deal, like Grant Hill and McGrady did in Orlando (not that it worked for them). But from there, if it takes a couple years to fill in the supporting cast between the draft, MLE and picking up players with the vets minimum, I think that is a quick rebuild model to aim for. Once you have the cog, it is easy to build around. I think some of you may be underestimating the pull of NY dollars (including the built-in Nike contract).

In that sense, I would use every asset available to dump Curry, Crawford, Jeffries and Randolph. Tank this year to get the best pick available and you have Chandler, Gallo and the Draft pick as your starting assets in 2010. I don't see Lee and Nate as guys to truly build around, so I would use the emotional attachment as a reason to keep them. Curry and Lee to Golden State for Harrington and any young player is fine by me.
You know I gonna spin wit it
Cosmic
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11/4/2008  8:56 AM
Posted by mythfaze:

We've only played three games and we've taken two keys from last season (Curry, Marbury) out of the rotation. This team should have a transformed identity in the locker room and on the court by the end of the season. If someone had told me it would take a year to clear the air from all the past drama, put certain players in their place and form an identity/specific style of play I would be pretty pleased with that. Give it time, lets see what happens. (But yes, the last two games were atrocious.)

When the players are still on the roster and in the lockerroom the true identity of the team does not change - the atmosphere does not change - in fact it worsens when once big minute rotation players are reduced to dnps - and until they are gone that will not change.

Until then it's only an ATTEMPT at a change of identity on the COURT. One that also cannot fully happen because all the players will be distracted by the previous system's big minute players now being out of favor and still sitting there and stewing.

It will remain a problem until the players are actually GONE.
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TMS
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11/4/2008  9:06 AM
so far there ain't nothing being done to get us any closer to cap flexibility in 2010, so yeah, obviously it is a myth.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Anji
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11/4/2008  9:08 AM
The knicks aren't any set time away. Just like you can't see anything good happening form our POV now, you can't say it is going to happen in that amount of time either. You can't predict what having a top tier player will do for the knicks either. This team just needs good things to happen for it, then we can see exactly what they need and if we get the "right" player things will get better.

I don't believe in this get rid of ever single player stuff either. The best teams find roles for players they already have. We need to drop a fair number of players, but not everybody.
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oohah
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11/4/2008  9:33 AM
It took the Spurs a long time with both David Robinson and Tim Duncan before they looked like contenders. I would say that you keep adding pieces.

I'm pretty sure Duncan won a championship by his second or third year.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
nysportsfan11
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11/4/2008  10:57 AM
The Nike contract thing is a myth that has been as distorted as a game of kindergarten kids playing telephone.

LeBron's current Nike deal has nothing to do with his market. First of all, his Nike deal expires after next season as well so the clause would be a moot point anyway going into his next contract. The majority of his endorsement deals end next year. That's why he only signed with the Cavs through next year because he knew he'd have better bargaining power depending on where he signs.

Second, he'd make more money in a bigger market simply because Nike would be able to leverage him better but the clause is not what the know-nothings in the media have made it out to be. Nike would NEVER agree to something like that when basketball sneakers aren't selling like that unless your name is MJ. LeBron's kicks have sold WAY less than expected and he'll be taking a pay cut which is why he's praying the 6 sells.

Finally, BK/Newark/The Swamp or wherever the Nets end up, LeBron's relationship with Jay-Z is all well and good but the public and the media are putting way to much influence on it and are showing how little they know about the situation and their relationship. It's William Wesley who will have the biggest voice in where LeBron ends up...Wes, who is best buddies with Joe Dumars and also advises AI, Sheed and Rip.

Jay, as a business man/advisor is not going to steer his buddy to a team that he owns less than 5% of if he'd be better off somewhere else. The only reason Jay wants ANYTHING to do with the Nets was because of the move to BK. That he's lost money on his investment from Day 1 prevented him from investing in Arsenal. Ratner was prepared to increase his percentage once the move was complete. Look for him to pull out within the next couple of years now.
BRIGGS
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11/4/2008  11:02 AM
Posted by EwingsGlass:

I disagree with the 'pull the plug' theory. It took the Spurs a long time with both David Robinson and Tim Duncan before they looked like contenders. I would say that you keep adding pieces. If Bosh is not the cog that you can build around to get a championship, I don't sign him. I think he made big strides between last year and this year in the olympics, but I think his defense is suspect. I wouldn't add Bosh unless I have room to add him and another star caliber player. 2010, I would try and purge the roster enough to sign to stars in a package deal, like Grant Hill and McGrady did in Orlando (not that it worked for them). But from there, if it takes a couple years to fill in the supporting cast between the draft, MLE and picking up players with the vets minimum, I think that is a quick rebuild model to aim for. Once you have the cog, it is easy to build around. I think some of you may be underestimating the pull of NY dollars (including the built-in Nike contract).

In that sense, I would use every asset available to dump Curry, Crawford, Jeffries and Randolph. Tank this year to get the best pick available and you have Chandler, Gallo and the Draft pick as your starting assets in 2010. I don't see Lee and Nate as guys to truly build around, so I would use the emotional attachment as a reason to keep them. Curry and Lee to Golden State for Harrington and any young player is fine by me.

--->It took the Spurs a long time with both David Robinson and Tim Duncan---dude it took them 1 year to win it all.
RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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11/4/2008  11:06 AM
Posted by oohah:
It took the Spurs a long time with both David Robinson and Tim Duncan before they looked like contenders. I would say that you keep adding pieces.

I'm pretty sure Duncan won a championship by his second or third year.

oohah

They were awesome the minute Tim Duncan came on the team. They won nearly 60 his first year and the championship the next--pretty much being frugal as a team the whole time.
RIP Crushalot😞
oohah
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11/4/2008  11:11 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

They were awesome the minute Tim Duncan came on the team. They won nearly 60 his first year and the championship the next--pretty much being frugal as a team the whole time.

The Spurs are the blueprint. And when will you ever see the drama that you see here there? Never. I'm pretty sure if the Spurs had a malcontent they wanted to get rid of, he never would have seen training camp -->problem solved? No, problem never happens.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Anji
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11/4/2008  11:32 AM
I don remember the Spurs having to deal with Dennis Rodman for two years...............
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
SupremeCommander
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11/4/2008  11:39 AM
Who cares about Tim Duncan? He's a once-in-a-lifetime talent. If that's we're pinning our hopes on that, then there's going to be a lot of heartache around here for a long, long time.

[Edited by - supremecommander on 11-04-2008 11:42 AM]
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
JrZyHuStLa
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11/4/2008  11:49 AM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by BRIGGS:

They were awesome the minute Tim Duncan came on the team. They won nearly 60 his first year and the championship the next--pretty much being frugal as a team the whole time.

The Spurs are the blueprint. And when will you ever see the drama that you see here there? Never. I'm pretty sure if the Spurs had a malcontent they wanted to get rid of, he never would have seen training camp -->problem solved? No, problem never happens.

oohah

Exactly. That's what a good management does, they sort out these nooks and crannies before the regular season, not panic only 3 games into the season. Popovich and Buford would've never allowed this Marbury fiasco to poison a season as young as this one. This leads me to believe that Walsh was slacking all summer.

This is what separates championship teams from lousy teams like the New York Knicks. Class and responsibility has been a trait of the San Antonio Spurs for a very long time now, as opposed to this pathetic roster and management. There is no sense of responsibility whatsoever.
franco12
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11/4/2008  12:06 PM
Posted by SupremeCommander:

Who cares about Tim Duncan? He's a once-in-a-lifetime talent. If that's we're pinning our hopes on that, then there's going to be a lot of heartache around here for a long, long time.

[Edited by - supremecommander on 11-04-2008 11:42 AM]

no- Duncan, MJ, LeBron, KG are franchise type talents that come along every draft- its an issue of being in a position to be able to draft them.
JrZyHuStLa
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11/4/2008  12:09 PM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by SupremeCommander:

Who cares about Tim Duncan? He's a once-in-a-lifetime talent. If that's we're pinning our hopes on that, then there's going to be a lot of heartache around here for a long, long time.

[Edited by - supremecommander on 11-04-2008 11:42 AM]

no- Duncan, MJ, LeBron, KG are franchise type talents that come along every draft- its an issue of being in a position to be able to draft them.

Michael Jordan comes along every draft ? Really ? Please tell me who this year's Jordan is ?
SlimPack
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11/4/2008  1:05 PM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by SupremeCommander:

Who cares about Tim Duncan? He's a once-in-a-lifetime talent. If that's we're pinning our hopes on that, then there's going to be a lot of heartache around here for a long, long time.

[Edited by - supremecommander on 11-04-2008 11:42 AM]

no- Duncan, MJ, LeBron, KG are franchise type talents that come along every draft- its an issue of being in a position to be able to draft them.

No they don't.
Masterplan
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11/4/2008  2:37 PM
Posted by JrZyHuStLa:
Posted by oohah:
Posted by BRIGGS:

They were awesome the minute Tim Duncan came on the team. They won nearly 60 his first year and the championship the next--pretty much being frugal as a team the whole time.

The Spurs are the blueprint. And when will you ever see the drama that you see here there? Never. I'm pretty sure if the Spurs had a malcontent they wanted to get rid of, he never would have seen training camp -->problem solved? No, problem never happens.

oohah

Exactly. That's what a good management does, they sort out these nooks and crannies before the regular season, not panic only 3 games into the season. Popovich and Buford would've never allowed this Marbury fiasco to poison a season as young as this one. This leads me to believe that Walsh was slacking all summer.

This is what separates championship teams from lousy teams like the New York Knicks. Class and responsibility has been a trait of the San Antonio Spurs for a very long time now, as opposed to this pathetic roster and management. There is no sense of responsibility whatsoever.

have popovich and buford been handed a situation like this one, though? and it sounds like the press and some fans are the ones panicking, not d'antoni and walsh.

i'd say, more importantly what separates good from lousy teams is their personnel decisions. walsh isn't making rushed, knee-jerk moves (i.e. the isiah thomas plan). i hope we have a better sense of what his plan is after the trading deadline, until then i'll tolerate a little mess. culture change takes time, and hopefully this is a bump in the road.
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