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Beginning to change my mind on Zach after watching this team play together this pre-season
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TMS
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10/15/2008  6:43 AM
I've been one of the harshest Zach critics ever since we got him but I have to admit the guy does at least seem like he's trying to buy into a team concept this season, & he's in much better shape & running the floor better than I saw him do last year.

w/Eddy Curry coming into camp way out of shape once again it's become clear to me now that he's the one who's gotta go... he just doesn't seem to get it & i don't think he ever will... if we can trade Curry & Jamal instead of Zach then it accomplishes pretty much the same goal that Walsh has been aiming for in 2010 & i think the team could be better off for it if we get the right deals made... i'll concede that you guys who've been saying this all along were right.

let's say we trade Curry straight up for Darko, & then send Jamal someplace for any expiring & a future 1st round pick while moving Q Rich to the 2 & starting Chandler at the 3, i think we would have a team that could maybe even contend for a playoff spot THIS season w/a much improved perimeter defense & we'd be in terrific shape cap wise in 2010 to make a legitimate run at Lebron, D Wade or 1 of the other bignames that'll be available.

C - Zach / Darko / Turd
PF - D Lee / Jefferies / Malik
SF - Chandler / Gallinari / Ewing Jr.
SG - Q Rich / Marbury / Houston or Roberson
PG - Duhon / Nate / Mardy


what u guys think?
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Ira
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10/15/2008  6:49 AM
What surprises me most about Zach is that he's actually hitting 3's. He always had an outside shot, but I never thought of him as being able to hit from that far out.
TMS
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10/15/2008  7:09 AM
he's even shooting them within the flow of the offense, which is what impressed me... i mean i've seen him hit 3's before but it was more or less when he'd just launch it up after getting the ball back out of a pick & roll play where his man didn't bother to close out on him... last night he even spotted up in the corner & hit 1 in transition in front of the Knick bench & seems like that was the intended play all along.
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fishmike
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10/15/2008  7:47 AM
what u guys think?
I think you pansies should have listened to me all summer long when I said creampuff Curry has to go and Zach is a good player.

Everyone knows the guy is a jerk but he's got skills and wants to win. He also likes playing. Marbury is a cancer, but Zach is just a jerk and you can win with a jerk. I have played with some over the years, sometimes they just add flavor. So long as guys play hard its cool. You look at what a nightmare last year was I thought Zach played hard most nights when a lot of guys where mailing it in.

I just think he's a good player who has been vilified as a cancer for his past, his salary and his connection with Isiah. He's a jerk but he can be a good player
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
franco12
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10/15/2008  8:33 AM
Posted by fishmike:
what u guys think?
I think you pansies should have listened to me all summer long when I said creampuff Curry has to go and Zach is a good player.

Everyone knows the guy is a jerk but he's got skills and wants to win. He also likes playing. Marbury is a cancer, but Zach is just a jerk and you can win with a jerk. I have played with some over the years, sometimes they just add flavor. So long as guys play hard its cool. You look at what a nightmare last year was I thought Zach played hard most nights when a lot of guys where mailing it in.

I just think he's a good player who has been vilified as a cancer for his past, his salary and his connection with Isiah. He's a jerk but he can be a good player

Funny, that's probably what they said about you

What I want to know is did Walsh try to move Curry, after backing out of efforts to move Zach.

The biggest problem with Zach is his contract, but at least he is young and not yet washed up like Marbury.

I think I even said this last year, that Zach could at least pass the ball- he seemed to possess the ability. Curry, I am not so sure about.

Welcome, TMS, to the Zach Fan Club
Uptown
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10/15/2008  8:47 AM
Not a bad idea. Paryicularly the idea of adding Darko. The Lee/Zach combo works well on the offenseive end, but defensively, guards are able to waltz into the lane without a thought of altering/changing thier shot. A shotblocker who can run the floor is a must.
TMS
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10/15/2008  9:01 AM
Posted by fishmike:
what u guys think?
I think you pansies should have listened to me all summer long when I said creampuff Curry has to go and Zach is a good player.

Everyone knows the guy is a jerk but he's got skills and wants to win. He also likes playing. Marbury is a cancer, but Zach is just a jerk and you can win with a jerk. I have played with some over the years, sometimes they just add flavor. So long as guys play hard its cool. You look at what a nightmare last year was I thought Zach played hard most nights when a lot of guys where mailing it in.

I just think he's a good player who has been vilified as a cancer for his past, his salary and his connection with Isiah. He's a jerk but he can be a good player

first of all i already conceded u were right that Curry's the one that has to go, no need to be a douche about it... & anyway, i never once said Zach wasn't a good player in any of my criticisms of Zach & have always acknowledged his talent, so i dunno where u get the idea that i did... my argument was & has always been that he's a horrible FIT on this team... anyone who watched this team play last year could have told u that from even a rudimentary glance... this year however it seems like he's running the floor better than last like i mentioned in the first post & is committing more to a team concept, something i did NOT see from him last year... so i'm not taking back any of my past criticisms of Zach because i don't believe i ever said anything about him that wasn't true... the only thing i'm changing my mind on is that i once thought there was no hope for Zach to play into a team concept on this team & fitting in D'Antoni's new system but judging from what i've been seeing the past couple games i think there may be some hope yet... not quite sure how anyone of you coulda projected that based on what y'all watched last year... maybe we were watching different games... anyway, i'm willing to give him a shot this year to prove it... in the meantime i've given up hope on Eddy ever being anything more than an underachiever... he doesn't have the desire or the gumption to raise the level of his game it seems, & it's a damn shame cuz he could be great if he wanted it.

[Edited by - TMS on 10-15-2008 06:04 AM]
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joec32033
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10/15/2008  9:10 AM
I like Zach at C more than Lee, but they are pretty interchangeable on the court where I don't think either plays the position mainly they kind of share it. Zach just strikes me as more of a center and it seems his passing and shooting make him a great fit here.

No I told you so's but glad to see you jump over here to the dark side of guys who want to keep Zach and get rid of Jabba the hut.
~You can't run from who you are.~
TMS
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10/15/2008  9:15 AM
Posted by franco12:

Welcome, TMS, to the Zach Fan Club

he's got a LONG ways to go before i join that club bro ... like i said i think there maybe some hope for him yet but he's still got to prove it to me that he can play w/in a team concept over the long haul... i've seen Steph play like a model team player for a stretch of games & then go right back to being the selfish primadonna he's always been so many times i lost count... will Zach be able to prove he can change his colors? only time will tell, but i'm willing to keep an open mind on him this season, so i'll give him that much.
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fishmike
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10/15/2008  9:17 AM
Posted by franco12:

Funny, that's probably what they said about you
na man... I am a ray of sunshine on the field. Its off the field that I am prick

And TMS I demand you take away your past criticisms of Zach.

Seriously though he will be OK. His contract sucks but he can play and wants to win. Curry doesnt want to play and doesnt care about winning. He plays because he is huge
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
TMS
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10/15/2008  9:18 AM
Posted by joec32033:

I like Zach at C more than Lee, but they are pretty interchangeable on the court where I don't think either plays the position mainly they kind of share it. Zach just strikes me as more of a center and it seems his passing and shooting make him a great fit here.

No I told you so's but glad to see you jump over here to the dark side of guys who want to keep Zach and get rid of Jabba the hut.

in this system Eddy Curry's no use to us if he can't run the floor... he's so out of shape right now he gets winded & takes himself out of games with some bogus made up excuse that he's got a tummy ache... it's ridiculous.
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TMS
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10/15/2008  9:19 AM
Posted by fishmike:
Curry doesnt want to play and doesnt care about winning. He plays because he is huge

that much i'll agree, u were right about him all along.

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Markji
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10/15/2008  9:32 AM
Glad to see more people are into Zach and trading Curry.

Curry is worth more than Darko on the trade market. Darko also has a bad back - he has missed 2 out of 4 games. Mark Gasol would be the better pickup from Memphis. They also have a lot of guards so maybe one is available? But then we would need to balance salaries.
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
djsunyc
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10/15/2008  9:33 AM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by franco12:

Funny, that's probably what they said about you
na man... I am a ray of sunshine on the field. Its off the field that I am prick

And TMS I demand you take away your past criticisms of Zach.

Seriously though he will be OK. His contract sucks but he can play and wants to win. Curry doesnt want to play and doesnt care about winning. He plays because he is huge

if the say is true, "you are what you eat", then fishmike is most definitely a prick...
Allanfan20
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10/15/2008  9:50 AM
I'm starting to realize it too, but I ALWAYS thought that he'd be a better fit than Curry, simply b/c he rebounds and Curry doesn't, plus Randolph has better range. I just simply thought they would BOTH be bad for D'Antoni.

I'd still take a shotblocker over Randolph though (And Sadly, Lee for that matter) because we desperately need one.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Nalod
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10/15/2008  9:52 AM
Zach is doing it on the court. Marbury does it with his mouth.

Bottom line is it raises his value to knicks, or in a trade scenario.

Curry has really hit a new low in his career. out of shape, and can't keep his vomit down. Pretty sad.

Marbury has got to go. He will undermine Duhon. Duhan needs time and space to get it together. Steph only cares about Steph. Thats fine, just let him go.
Allanfan20
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10/15/2008  9:55 AM
PS: I hate seeing Zach shoot 3s.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Finestrg
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10/15/2008  10:19 AM
Yeah, I agree T, there's no doubt Zach's a better player than Curry. And I like the idea of shopping both Curry and Crawford, either packaged together or seperate.

Touching on Zach for a sec., I even went as far as saying sometime last year that I thought the best David Lee could ever be is Zach Randolph - I thought that Zach was Lee's absolute ceiling and I had trouble seeing how he was gonna ever be as good. Well, I think I was wrong on that now. While I was basically trying to praise Zach at the time by saying he brings a lot to the table, Lee's now shown us he's committed himself to this game 100%, offense and all. I used to think of Lee as nothing more than an heady effort guy that's gonna give you 10 rebs. and tremendous hustle. But he's more than than now. He's added the improved FT shooting, now the jumpshot... maybe he comes back next year with some post moves. In fact I'd bet money that he does. I think Briggs is right, gotta sign him now before he asks for the moon a-la the Yanks with Robinson Cano. He's worth it. Same with Nate. I resign Lee & Nate, along Mardy and Chandler when their time comes and if it interfers with FA in 2010 so be it. We might have to take care of our own and make sure they don't get away first and then maybe look past 2010/2011 for FA help. Maybe that's the way to go now....

Back to Curry. Where Curry really lost me forever was when he completely deferred to Zach Randolph when Zach first got here and he let his whole game go in the tank. I mean, how do you do that?? This was your team, you know? This is a guy that went 19.5 and 7 (albeit he was being force-fed the ball) and was showing us he was possibly on the verge of something (at least his trade value was up) and then, poof....he completely falls apart and regresses badly. Just content to defer to the newcomer and collect his check. That's the point where I was like, along with the constantly coming into camp out of shape year after year, this guy's a joke. And how 'bout how Eddy himself said he didn't even expect to be here at the start of this season. I mean, what kind of frame of mind is that to have??? Man, no heart, no desire to even be here it seems, no desire to get better & be the best. Just soft.... Some guys like a David Lee make the committment, rise to the occassion and show you they'll do anything to get better. Those are the guys worth keeping. But guys like Eddy Curry, with all that talent...just no desire to get better at his craft. I tell you what, I have a sneaking suspicion that Donnie didn't even bother shopping Eddy in the off-season, he probably looked at big Eddy as a building block with a passable contract (better than Zach's at least) & spent all his time trying to jettison Zach while not getting completely raped in the process, which we were all basically on board with - I know I was. But in hindsight, he should've been shopping Eddy Curry. He's the last player on this roster that will ever fit in with what Mike D'Antoni wants to do here. Maybe the Clippers, who were looking for a big man, might have taken him....

I don't care what Donnie has to do and who he has to talk to, whoever might be looking for a big man - Denver, Minnesota, Memphis, etc.. - just find a match and get rid of this guy already. He's a huge waste of time.


[Edited by - finestrg on 10-15-2008 10:30 AM]
TMS
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10/15/2008  10:22 AM
Posted by Markji:

Glad to see more people are into Zach and trading Curry.

Curry is worth more than Darko on the trade market. Darko also has a bad back - he has missed 2 out of 4 games. Mark Gasol would be the better pickup from Memphis. They also have a lot of guards so maybe one is available? But then we would need to balance salaries.

Curry's worth is pretty low right now & for me just getting rid of the last year of his contract would be bonus enough to warrant that trade even w/Darko's bad back & all... i don't think we need to bring in another G at this point cuz it'll take more time for them to learn this offense... i think the guys we have right now in the backcourt are fine for this season, it's not like we're looking to contend for a championship right now... if they can sneak into the playoffs that would have to be considered a huge success at this point as long as they can start to build that team chemistry that may lead them to a championship someday in the future... build some team chemistry & set ourselves up for cap flexibility in 2010... those should be our only goals right now if u ask me.
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TMS
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10/15/2008  10:30 AM
btw, just in case anyone thinks i hold the same hope for Marbury, i don't... i just inserted him as the backup SG cuz he's the most talented guy on the bench & the Knicks obviously don't plan on buying him out anytime soon... i want him outta here as soon as possible... that dark raincloud that lingers over his head every night really puts a damper on any joy i have of watching this team... if it were up to me i'd play Mardy as the backup SG & send Marbs someplace far away for the good of the team.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Beginning to change my mind on Zach after watching this team play together this pre-season

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