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LJStillGrandmama
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8/18/2003  9:58 AM
Anyone here know where I can find all the Knicks transactions since the end of the 99 Season. Espn only goes to Feb 2001, I believe. I need it for a little report I'm doing. Thanx
If anyone knows of a SMART Knicks forum, with lots of activity, and minus people like PLAYA... holla at your boy.
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HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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8/18/2003  2:33 PM
Wouldn't that information be on the NYK official site?
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
fishmike
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8/18/2003  5:30 PM
you can read about Layden's ruining of the Knicks here:
http://www.hoopshype.com/general_managers/scott_layden.htm

every move since he started.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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8/18/2003  5:52 PM
Thanks alot, Fishmike! This is juat the ammo I needed to shut down those LayDown-Lovers even harder than I already have doing already. I should have figured that HoopsHype would have the breakdown well documented.

Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
playa2
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8/19/2003  6:42 AM
LAYDEN HAS MADE MANY QUESTIONABLE MOVES IN THE PAST, BUT YOU CAN'T TELL ME THE MOVES THIS UPCOMING SEASON(2003) HASN'T BEEN TO MAKE THIS TEAM BETTER NOW AND FOR THE FUTURE! We can all bring up someones past, but all we are concerned with is, what are we producing IN LIFE now!

[Edited by - playa2 on 08/19/2003 12:00:47]
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
justo
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8/19/2003  9:36 AM
Playa-

Layden has made some bonehead moves(paiging Nene Hilario), BUT, he did inherit some big, stupid, worthless contracts: Houston, Ward, etc. It limits his ability to make a decent trade.

But you can't tell me that Eisley isn't getting it done. The only reason you can trade Ward is because you can start Eisley, and have Williams come off the bench. Williams was a Layden pick as well.

And you can't tell me that Andersen isn't getting it done either. He's playing better than he did in 2000, which was his best year stats-wise. He's definitely an option. Is he better than any other 2 in the league, no, but-what trade could Layden have made, seriously, that would have made the team better, given the contracts on hand?

KVH is another "best-of-a-bad-situation" trade. We lose the heart of the team, as far as I'm concerned, but we gain a proven scorer and a real team player that has some years left on him.

Face it KVH is young, Spree is not. Last year, Spree tried to carry the team, and he faltered as the season went on. If you are trying to rebuild, do you want to keep the old guys around as they fade, or do you want someone that can contribute over 3-5 seasons? Layden did what he had to do-trade Spree while he still had some value.

If Van Horn comes to play, and justifies losing Spree for him, as opposed to some other premier player, then Layden will look like a genius.

Sure the chance is slim, but what else would you do?



Another Fine NY Product
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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8/19/2003  1:31 PM
Justo, LayDown signed Houston to that obscene $100 million contract. There's no way in hell he gets a pass for that.

In addition, there is NOTHING that fool LayDown can do at this point to make him a "genius". There has been too much damage done. The latest being that damn KVH trade.

The best thing that can come of this bad situation is that LayDown get FIRED.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
martin
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8/19/2003  2:07 PM
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

Justo, LayDown signed Houston to that obscene $100 million contract. There's no way in hell he gets a pass for that.

crap, do we have to re-visit this again? Did Laydon sign Houston to the contract or did Dolan?
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fishmike
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8/19/2003  2:48 PM
Layden signed Houston. While Houston is overpaid he's not the problem and here is why: He's productive. He's a top 10 scorer in the NBA and while he's NOT TMac or Kobe he does what a 2 guard is supposed to...shoot and score.

Anderson and Eisley are a disaster. They arent bad players, but they arent good either. They are both "ok" bench/role players making more than guys like Chauncy Billups, Juwan Howard and Correy Magggette. Thats just insane. Rudy T said of Anderson "I love the guy, but I would cut him before paying him what he wants." Both had 5-6 year deals that NO TEAM will take on, unless they are dumping you with an Austin Croshere in return.

Layden also extended Spree in his first year to a 5 year max deal....then spent the next 3 years trying his best to trade him.

Layden signed Spoon to 5 years and the full MLE when he didnt have one other offer.

McDyess is probably a wash, but lets face it....Layden is just lucky because Williams/Lampe *might* turn out better than Nene..but we wont know about that one for a few years.

Some other throw ins and failed experiments; Glen Rice, Travis Knight, Mark Jackson (plus we used a draft pick for him) and Othella Harrington.

Please...dont try to give him credit for improving the team THIS year when all he did was NOT trade our picks for garbage in return. FYI: we have 3 pgs, 2 sgs and 9 power forwards...unless you count Travis and Doleac as centers...then its 7. Yea...GREAT GM WE HAVE.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
sebstar
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8/20/2003  12:08 AM
Nobody is buying the “Layden inherited bad contracts excuse”. Pretty much the whole team that stinks up the Garden floor is here because of Layden’s choosing. Layden certainly had enough flexibility to bring in the likes of Spoon, Knight, Othella, Houston, Eisley, and Shandon Anderson and the rest of the sorry lot that has turned the Knicks into a running joke in the NBA. How does a GM put together a team that couldn’t even win the Big East, yet they are one of the highest paid roster’s in the league??? Unbelievable!

Liked your post Fishmike, but I have to disagree with you on one point. Eisely and Anderson are sure as hell bad NBA players. Eisely is by far the worst starting point guard in the league…no contest. Easily the most boring too. If Eisley ever drove to the basket or even pushed the ball up the floor I think I would pass out in shock. Dude plays boring, passion free, non-athletic basketball, the way the Knicks like em. Ditto for Anderson who would be 9th or 10th on the depth chart of any real team. To top it all off, the Knicks pay these guys like All Stars!!!

In addition, the McDyess trade does not fall under the “wash” category for me, not when we could have had Amare Stoudamire.

Don’t believe that Layden spin, that they traded for KVH because he is younger, taller, or any of that other b.s… They got Van Horn because he fits into their sick little corporate agenda…He is white, has ties in Utah, and is controversy free. End of story. The Knicks don’t make basketball decisions, haven’t made them in years. They could have waited a year to trade Spree who would have then been in his last year, upping his value, but they obviously don’t care about any of that.

Say what you want about Spree, but even the most Diehard Layden/Dolan loyalist cant make the claim that KVH is a better player then Spree. I mean, the Knicks were a .500 team with Spree in the lineup, which has to anoint him as some sort of miracle worker. KVH has one of the worst reputations in the league as far as heart and desire go…no other team will touch him. But of course Another teams trash is the Knicks fans new headache.

If drafting the next Spoon/Othella non-athletic hybrid in Mike Sweetney, and trading out best player for another boring Utah guy is enough to get the Knick apologists to start having orgasms and send them on their way to construct Layden shrines, then good for them.


My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
fishmike
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8/20/2003  11:09 AM
Not fair....if Eisley and Anderson were both making about $2 or $2.5 a year we would be talking about what a great bench we have. Eisley shot the ball (especially from 3) extremely well last year, and gave us some nice scoring at time. Anderson is probably our most atheletic player (including Spree) and is a nice defensive piece. He's also the only one that can really stuff it...he's got some nice dunks. Problem is they combine for like $11 million which is totally insane.

I actually like Anderson's game (as a bench player). Eisley pretty much makes me sick, but at least Chaney put him in spots he could contribute last year. ITs their $$$ that kills me. Dont get me wrong...I would love to see Eisley split and Frankie get his minutes.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
tkf
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8/20/2003  11:36 AM
Sebstar: good post man, but I will say that although you are right about the knicks not making basketball moves, KVH is a solid player, I wouldn't have done the deal but in all honesty that is the least of the knicks problems. The kincks problems arise in what layden has done in the past few years, the contracts of eisley, Ander and spoon are really killing this team. Fishmike I do agree that Anderson is a good athlete but he is almost at the bottom of the talent level in the NBA when it comes to skills. Other than Anderson being 6'7 I think I could bust his azz on the court... Seriously, he is not a basketball player.. good athlete yes.. ball player no!!

Eisley is a decent back up, but that is as far as it goes!!!

Next Sebstar: the knicks were not goint to draft Amare, no matter how much we wanted that( and I sure as hell did) Layden was not going to take him, so it was either Wilcox, nene or Dice, and right now I would take the first two since they are young and healthy....

I love the knicks and will stick by them but we are the laughing stock of the league, hopefully we can develop williams, sweetney and lampe, have another good draft and finally start back on the road to respectability...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Pike
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8/20/2003  11:57 AM
Williams, Sweetney, Lampe and Vranes = Knicks hope. The rest is a waste of time.
knixphan
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8/20/2003  12:17 PM
...and is there any such thing as a 'Layden loyalist'? Does that category even exist? -LOL-

Even someone who doesn't actually hate Layden...well, at least not to the point of homicidal fantasy...would probably embrace Spike Lee with open arms if he were hired as GM.

"I will dress in bright and cheery colors, and so throw my enemies into confusion."
technomaster
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8/20/2003  7:29 PM
Hey, I don't hate Layden--- he's kind of played the cards he's been dealt. I made a big post about this in the past. The Knicks have had more than their fair share of injuries since he took the helm. We can't blame him for Longley/LJ retiring, Camby missing massive time, Rice getting hurt, Sprewell breaking his hand, McDyess cracking his kneecap, FW breaking his wrist...

All of these moves set us back one way or another. You could argue that the Knicks medical staff who inspected these players (pre-trade) didn't do their homework right.

Think about this: There's all of this talk about the luxury tax and such. The first year of the tax, it didn't go into effect because the league had enough revenue. Last season was the first time teams had to pay the price of circumventing the salary cap.

And of course, it coincided with the Knicks falling from the playoffs. I wonder how much the fall of the Knicks has contributed to the demise of the NBA. We're arguably the largest of the big market teams. If the Knicks are able to field a good team and grow fan interest... then perhaps the league will earn enough money where the Knicks CAN BE OVER THE CAP and still not be taxed.

Just a thought.
“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
fishmike
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8/20/2003  7:43 PM
"Hey, I don't hate Layden--- he's kind of played the cards he's been dealt. I made a big post about this in the past. The Knicks have had more than their fair share of injuries since he took the helm. We can't blame him for Longley/LJ retiring, Camby missing massive time, Rice getting hurt, Sprewell breaking his hand, McDyess cracking his kneecap, FW breaking his wrist..."

yes you can. When you invest in players with major injury issues in the past you cant be upset when they get hurt again.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
tkf
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8/20/2003  10:35 PM
Posted by fishmike:

"Hey, I don't hate Layden--- he's kind of played the cards he's been dealt. I made a big post about this in the past. The Knicks have had more than their fair share of injuries since he took the helm. We can't blame him for Longley/LJ retiring, Camby missing massive time, Rice getting hurt, Sprewell breaking his hand, McDyess cracking his kneecap, FW breaking his wrist..."

yes you can. When you invest in players with major injury issues in the past you cant be upset when they get hurt again.

No, we can't blame him for the injuries, but we can blame him for trading for longley who retired and trading for Rice who got hurt and trading our pick for Dice who cracked his kneecap....

We can blame him for the bad trades!!
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
playa2
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8/21/2003  7:05 AM
Well why you're at it, lets blame Riley for letting Starks shoot us out of a title and keeping Rolondo Blackman on the bench. Let's Blame Ewing for missing the finger roll against the Pacers in big Playoff game.
Let's blame Knicks coaches for letting "PLAYERS" come off the bench against the heat and lose the series to Miami because of suspensions. My point All those guys were forgiven and some of you hold a sword of Laydens neck as if he can't make mistakes just like everyone else mention!
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
jazz74
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8/21/2003  9:24 AM
but CONSISTENT mistakes, playa. you are right. i can not really blame for the dice injury. he took all of the precautions like physicals and doctor's analysis in account. it was just bad luck. but the awful moves before hand like the ewing deal instead of letting him and child's walk at the end of that year. outbidding themselves for houston who could have been had for $70 mill instead of max. signing the bum of a player weatherspoon who gets his shots blocked like the little kid in the playground and overpaying him. trading for more huge contracts with eisley and anderson who are getting starter money but not playing starter quality ball. i don't like the spree deal either but i will wait until the season starts to see how it materialize. the fact is this. if dice can come back, he could save layzie's job. if he does'nt and we do not make the playoffs three years in a row, he should be fired on the spot. he should be terminated now in my opinion. but dice is the key. with dice, playoffs. without dice, pavel for next years draft lottery.
tkf
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8/21/2003  9:48 AM
playa you are making no sense, True riley should have substituted for starks and true Ewing blew that game with the missed finger roll but guess what, those mistakes stopped right there, they had no effects on the future of the knicks. Now Laydens mistakes are still effecting the knicks right now, the Ewing trade, the dice trade and the Anderson and eisley signings, you see there is the difference, these moves will continue to hurt us for years to come. How dare you blame riley for starks bad shooting and ewing for missing a finger roll, these guys had these bad games in the postseason in which they helped the knicks to get there. Under layden postseason is becomming a foreign word... As far as the dice deal goes, again it was dumb luck with the injury but the knicks needed that pick, the direction is what bothers me more than the trade, the knicks should of kept the pick and started rebuilding then....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
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