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Zach getting high marks
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Markji
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10/6/2008  5:32 AM
With New Knicks Coach, Randolph has New Attitude
BY ALAN HAHN | alan.hahn@newsday.com October 6, 2008

As much as Donnie Walsh and Mike D'Antoni have said players such as Zach Randolph have a "clean slate" this season, it is Randolph who has wiped it clean for the new regime as well.

"It's a better atmosphere, a different atmosphere than last year," he said. "We're just focused on basketball. We're focused on winning games."

Last season, Randolph had issues with Isiah Thomas, who acquired him in a trade on draft night in June 2007. He once wondered aloud why Thomas even brought him to New York. Late in the season, when the wheels had officially fallen off, a bitter Randolph argued with teammates and even squirted water at Nate Robinson during a timeout.

During the offseason, Randolph knew he was among the unwanted as training camp approached. He heard from his agent about the trade talk and knows the Knicks would have preferred to jettison his $48-million contract, which has three hefty years left and compromises their plans in 2010.

But like another persona non grata, Stephon Marbury, he's here right now. And thus far Randolph is buying in, giving an honest effort in camp and following the direction of the man he respectfully refers to as "Coach D'Antoni."

"Whatever he wants me to do," said Randolph, 27, "that's what I'm going to do."

You would think D'Antoni and Randolph would get along great because they both believe in the same philosophy: shoot early and shoot often.

But the concern with Randolph, who averaged 17.6 points and 10.3 rebounds last season, is more about his ability - make that willingness - to run the floor. He and Eddy Curry together were a nightmare in transition defense, let alone in the half-court set.

But after a week of training camp, D'Antoni has seen not only some pleasantly surprising offensive options with Randolph but a pleasing amount of effort running the floor.

A new attitude? Maybe it's the result of whatever rubbed off on him after working out with Kevin Garnett, Andre Miller and others at UCLA during the summer.

"He's probably in better shape than what I thought he would be in because I didn't see him much in September," D'Antoni said. "But he did the whole camp, ran, and I'm happy about it."

And Randolph is happy about the idea of playing a great deal of pick-and-pop on the perimeter, which is something Thomas rarely utilized last season. The pin-downs D'Antoni likes to do with his bigs - starting at the top of the key and screening for a guard down low - also give him plenty of opportunities for one-on-ones on the post.

"They won't be able to double quick on me," Randolph said, "so I'll have a man on my back and I can play and make a quick move."

D'Antoni doesn't yet know what he can do with Curry, who missed the entire week of camp in Saratoga Springs with a bacterial infection, so Randolph's scoring ability in the frontcourt is critical for the Knicks, who are perimeter-laden.

Randolph started camp along with Marbury outside the apparent "Fav Five," but by the end of the week, he was working with the possible starting unit. It's a sign that Randolph is solidifying his place in D'Antoni's rotation.

"Hell, yeah," Randolph said. "Since I've been doing it and working and learning, I feel a lot better, instead of just hearing about it. I'm still learning. I don't know it all yet, but pretty soon I'm going to have it down."


The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
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Ira
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10/6/2008  6:59 AM
Thanks, Markji. I never got the 'Zach is a cancer' bit that's so popular here. He turned out to be a horrible fit, but that wasn't his fault. Considering his health and weight, Curry isn't going to be able to work his way into the rotation for a while. I'm glad we have Zach.
Bonn1997
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10/6/2008  7:02 AM
Posted by Ira:

Thanks, Markji. I never got the 'Zach is a cancer' bit that's so popular here. He turned out to be a horrible fit, but that wasn't his fault. Considering his health and weight, Curry isn't going to be able to work his way into the rotation for a while. I'm glad we have Zach.
Why? Even if he, for the first time in his career, helps his team win games, we'll still be a bad team. What matters is cap space in 2010.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 10-06-2008 07:03 AM]
Markji
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10/6/2008  7:42 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Ira:

Thanks, Markji. I never got the 'Zach is a cancer' bit that's so popular here. He turned out to be a horrible fit, but that wasn't his fault. Considering his health and weight, Curry isn't going to be able to work his way into the rotation for a while. I'm glad we have Zach.
Why? Even if he, for the first time in his career, helps his team win games, we'll still be a bad team. What matters is cap space in 2010.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 10-06-2008 07:03 AM]
I don't agree with the idea that the only thing that matters is 2010 cap space. What matters to me as a fan is that the team pulls itself together; gets rid of all of the conflicts from previous years; and plays good, enjoyable basketball. Also, if you want to trade Zach for cap space, then him playing well with no disturbances will help that.

I don't buy into the idea of we'll be terrible for 2 years and then in 2010 we'll get our savior and then we'll be great. We have to start being good now and keep improving so we have a solid core of players for the 2010 FA. And it isn't even guaranteed that we can land a top FA in 2010.

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
fishmike
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10/6/2008  8:03 AM
mentioned this before and got blasted. Zach is a good player and will do very well this year. Its Curry thats the one dimensional fat slob
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
joec32033
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10/6/2008  8:05 AM
Posted by fishmike:

mentioned this before and got blasted. Zach is a good player and will do very well this year. Its Curry thats the one dimensional fat slob

cosign +1000
~You can't run from who you are.~
fimslim3
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10/6/2008  8:37 AM
Sure Randolph is great, let him relax on defense and on offense we can let him run the plays at the top of the key where he releases from three.
"Dissension is the greatest form of patriotism" - Thomas Jefferson
nixluva
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10/6/2008  9:18 AM
Posted by fimslim3:

Sure Randolph is great, let him relax on defense and on offense we can let him run the plays at the top of the key where he releases from three.

what would give u the impression that Zach would be allowed to play selfish ball? I'm confident that the players on this team won't allow that to happen this year. Already you can see how Q and others are very locked in. They view this as a chance to play winning ball if they listen to MDA. They don't want to repeat all they chaos of the past and MDA is their ticket to respectability.
MS
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10/6/2008  10:45 AM
I think with Curry out of the lineup the team is going to be much more efficient. It's not like Eddy does anything better than Zach except draw fouls and everyon else is already in better shape.

Not in love with Duhon seems collins has been more impressive and is more physical than Duhon. I think D'Antoni is just proving a point, which I don't blame him. But I think our sf spot is really going to impress with Q healthy and Chandler waiting in the wings. Jefferies I obviously can't stand but in this offense he would have been able to help with rotations and bringing some cohesion to the offense.

I think you win 10 extra games with define roles, players being in shape and more importantly Crawford with an opt out and Marbury playing for a contract only fosters production. But I am a little concerned with this 8 second of less ball with Crawford, I think that's why duhon is going to be starting.

It's nice to finally see a coach look like he is going to use the right lineups. Big snacks could have been useful for 10 minutes if the team goes small, James, Chandler, Q, Marbury, Robinson
gr33d
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10/6/2008  11:35 AM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by fishmike:

mentioned this before and got blasted. Zach is a good player and will do very well this year. Its Curry thats the one dimensional fat slob

cosign +1000

how can anyone not agree here?

curry is one of the laziest professional athletes i've ever witnessed. it's why he'll never stop with the offensive fouls, because it's "easier" to bowl over someone then go around. he doesn't rebound or blocks shots to boot; worthless sack of dung i tell ya...
"If you ain't first, you're last" - Ricky Bobby
fimslim3
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10/6/2008  12:50 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by fimslim3:

Sure Randolph is great, let him relax on defense and on offense we can let him run the plays at the top of the key where he releases from three.

what would give u the impression that Zach would be allowed to play selfish ball? I'm confident that the players on this team won't allow that to happen this year. Already you can see how Q and others are very locked in. They view this as a chance to play winning ball if they listen to MDA. They don't want to repeat all they chaos of the past and MDA is their ticket to respectability.


The problem is their is no accountability on this team in previous years and you're saying this year is going to be different? Coaches shouldn't be holding other players responsible, its not their job. We don't have a leader or an identity on this team, until we do I expect more of the same.
"Dissension is the greatest form of patriotism" - Thomas Jefferson
Bonn1997
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10/6/2008  1:26 PM
Posted by Markji:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Ira:

Thanks, Markji. I never got the 'Zach is a cancer' bit that's so popular here. He turned out to be a horrible fit, but that wasn't his fault. Considering his health and weight, Curry isn't going to be able to work his way into the rotation for a while. I'm glad we have Zach.
Why? Even if he, for the first time in his career, helps his team win games, we'll still be a bad team. What matters is cap space in 2010.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 10-06-2008 07:03 AM]
I don't agree with the idea that the only thing that matters is 2010 cap space. What matters to me as a fan is that the team pulls itself together; gets rid of all of the conflicts from previous years; and plays good, enjoyable basketball. Also, if you want to trade Zach for cap space, then him playing well with no disturbances will help that.

I don't buy into the idea of we'll be terrible for 2 years and then in 2010 we'll get our savior and then we'll be great. We have to start being good now and keep improving so we have a solid core of players for the 2010 FA. And it isn't even guaranteed that we can land a top FA in 2010.
I wouldn't say that we have to be bad for the next 2 years. I'd say that the difference between 23 and 31 wins doesn't mean a whole lot to me though. And Zach must be off this team by 2010 so that we can get a *real* star player or perhaps *two* (one in 2010 and one in 2011).

You're definitely right that him playing better should make trading him easier but it will take a reputation change, not merely a statistical change where he improves back to his 24/10 Portland stats. He's gonna have to actually play hard for the first time in his life on both ends of the court. He's gonna have to share the ball with his teammates for the first time in his life. He's gonna have to not be a jerk who fights with his teammates for the first time in his life whenever times get tough. Impossible? No. Likely? No.
oohah
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10/6/2008  1:31 PM
You're definitely right that him playing better should make trading him easier but it will take a reputation change, not merely a statistical change where he improves back to his 24/10 Portland stats. He's gonna have to actually play hard for the first time in his life on both ends of the court. He's gonna have to share the ball with his teammates for the first time in his life. He's gonna have to not be a jerk who fights with his teammates for the first time in his life whenever times get tough. Impossible? No. Likely? No.

Stop whining and hang your ass! http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=28345

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Bonn1997
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10/6/2008  1:49 PM
Posted by oohah:
You're definitely right that him playing better should make trading him easier but it will take a reputation change, not merely a statistical change where he improves back to his 24/10 Portland stats. He's gonna have to actually play hard for the first time in his life on both ends of the court. He's gonna have to share the ball with his teammates for the first time in his life. He's gonna have to not be a jerk who fights with his teammates for the first time in his life whenever times get tough. Impossible? No. Likely? No.

Stop whining and hang your ass! http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=28345

oohah

Done. I'm predicting 20/10/4 for Zach. (See your thread for an explanation.)
TMS
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10/6/2008  5:00 PM
Posted by Ira:

Thanks, Markji. I never got the 'Zach is a cancer' bit that's so popular here. He turned out to be a horrible fit, but that wasn't his fault. Considering his health and weight, Curry isn't going to be able to work his way into the rotation for a while. I'm glad we have Zach.

this wasn't Zach's fault?

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Markji
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10/6/2008  6:13 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Ira:

Thanks, Markji. I never got the 'Zach is a cancer' bit that's so popular here. He turned out to be a horrible fit, but that wasn't his fault. Considering his health and weight, Curry isn't going to be able to work his way into the rotation for a while. I'm glad we have Zach.

this wasn't Zach's fault?

We've gone thru this in 2 previous threads. In one word - Poor coaching! Really "no coaching!"

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
metra
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10/6/2008  6:18 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Ira:

Thanks, Markji. I never got the 'Zach is a cancer' bit that's so popular here. He turned out to be a horrible fit, but that wasn't his fault. Considering his health and weight, Curry isn't going to be able to work his way into the rotation for a while. I'm glad we have Zach.

this wasn't Zach's fault?


I've seen that clip so many times but I still can't understand why it's so bad. He lost the handle on his dribble. Shot clock was going down and he chucked it.

You're telling me this hasn't happened to 90% of basketball players?
TMS
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10/6/2008  9:13 PM
Posted by metra:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Ira:

Thanks, Markji. I never got the 'Zach is a cancer' bit that's so popular here. He turned out to be a horrible fit, but that wasn't his fault. Considering his health and weight, Curry isn't going to be able to work his way into the rotation for a while. I'm glad we have Zach.

this wasn't Zach's fault?


I've seen that clip so many times but I still can't understand why it's so bad. He lost the handle on his dribble. Shot clock was going down and he chucked it.

You're telling me this hasn't happened to 90% of basketball players?

u really really wanna tell me that's the play that Isiah called, or wanted to see? Zach w/an iso at the top of the key w/the shotclock winding down? please dude... yes it happens to 90% of the players at some point or another, & each one of those times i'd say at least 90% of the time it's the fault of that player making that boneheaded gaffe on the play, not the coaching, or lack thereof.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
tkf
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10/6/2008  9:49 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Ira:

Thanks, Markji. I never got the 'Zach is a cancer' bit that's so popular here. He turned out to be a horrible fit, but that wasn't his fault. Considering his health and weight, Curry isn't going to be able to work his way into the rotation for a while. I'm glad we have Zach.

this wasn't Zach's fault?



yea, that was zach's fault, but looking at the big picture, we don't need to harp on that one silly play by zach, but how we as a team got to such a point where players would even think to do that?...

we know that shot was zach's fault, but again looking at the bigger picture the coach and GM allowed that toxic atmosphere to exist, even thrive..



[Edited by - tkf on 06-10-2008 9:50 PM]
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
TMS
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10/6/2008  10:08 PM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Ira:

Thanks, Markji. I never got the 'Zach is a cancer' bit that's so popular here. He turned out to be a horrible fit, but that wasn't his fault. Considering his health and weight, Curry isn't going to be able to work his way into the rotation for a while. I'm glad we have Zach.

this wasn't Zach's fault?



yea, that was zach's fault, but looking at the big picture, we don't need to harp on that one silly play by zach, but how we as a team got to such a point where players would even th'm ink to do that?...

we know that shot was zach's fault, but again looking at the bigger picture the coach and GM allowed that toxic atmosphere to exist, even thrive..



[Edited by - tkf on 06-10-2008 9:50 PM]

i'm not harping only on that one play, it's the overall non-effect he's had on this team (at least positive effect)... i think his supposed "20 & 10" numbers are just about as hollow & transparent as they get... his teams in POR sucked too when he became a mainstay in the rotation so it's not like it's anything new w/him... what was this, the 3rd or 4th 20-something win team he's been a major part of over his relatively short career? i lost count... i don't see any new system created by D'Antoni making him into a great player for us... the only way i can ever fathom Zach being a good player & impacting games to result in success for our franchise is if he's the 2nd or 3rd scoring option & we have a stud like Lebron, Kobe or someone else of that stature leading the squad, but that'll never have a chance to happen cuz Zach's contract is pretty much the main reason why we can't land guys like that... so yeah, i still think he needs to go... i don't care what i hear from D'Antoni about how much of a pro he's been in training camp or how much i hear him say he wants to be a team player this year... i'll believe in Zach when i see it resulting in a lotta W's, & i don't see that happening.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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