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Do You Approve or Disapprove of Walsh's Handling of Zach Trades?
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Bonn1997
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Do You Approve or Disapprove of Walsh's Handling of Zach Trades?
Approve, he's waiting for a good deal
Disapprove, he doesn't realize a good deal will never come
I can't decide
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Cosmic
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9/20/2008  8:26 AM
Disapprove. As I said in the other thread if including the 2012 first rounder to the Clippers for a full salary dump + a 2nd rounder was the hold up then he doesn't understand how bad Zach is for a team.

If in 2012 that pick were to still be a top lotto pick then what on earth is Walsh doing from now until then?

Bottom line is, if Walsh does his job, that 2012 pick is irrelevant and should be 18th or worse.
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Ira
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9/20/2008  8:34 AM
I approve. Both of the trades he passed on, as they were reported, involved giving up our first round pick. That isn't worth it. LeBron or Wade might stay home in 2010, in which case getting under the cap one year earlier isn't that big a deal.
joec32033
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9/20/2008  9:01 AM
Approve x 1000.
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izybx
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9/20/2008  9:19 AM
Hes doing exactly what most of us here have been calling for. Being patient and waiting for a good deal is refreshing after years of Isiah spazzing out. Im sure the right deal will come along at some point in the next couple years.
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Markji
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9/20/2008  9:33 AM
Posted by izybx:

Hes doing exactly what most of us here have been calling for. Being patient and waiting for a good deal is refreshing after years of Isiah spazzing out. Im sure the right deal will come along at some point in the next couple years.
IZY, I am with you on this one. But I think Zach will be gone by the trade deadline, not in a couple of years.



[Edited by - markji on 09-20-2008 10:02 AM]
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Cosmic
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9/20/2008  9:40 AM
To those that approve:

Is it because you like Zach and believe his "20/10" is part of a winning program?

or

Is it because you truly believe Walsh will get a better offer than the Clipper offer? Or anything more than the Memphis offer?


A little reminder here: The Toronto Raptors gave us a 1st round pick (Balkman) to take on an extra year of Jalen Rose's contract. This is somewhat customary in the NBA. The SA Spurs gave us 2 (Collins, Lee) to take on Malik Rose for Nazr in return. It's common.

To think we can dump Zach who is a known trouble maker for anything better than that Clipper offer of full cap space + 2nd rounder in return for the 2012 first rounder is on the utmost level of optimism.

To think Zach will get easier to dump as time moves forward I think is short sighted given he is still Zach, it's still a mega deal, there's room for him to implode further this year damaging his worth, and again it still stands that many team desire and get 1st rounders thrown in to take back longer contracts in return. Deal #1 was a steal, Deal #2 wasn't. Deal #3 won't outdo Deal #1 when it comes along. Especially seeing how everyone wants a 1st rounder in return (supposedly, of course, as we still don't know what is accurate and what is not)

There's also nothing that says that we can't deal Crawford for a 1st rounder and filler as well so the whole desire to cling to that 2012 pick is a little confusing to me given our situation.
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cooch2584
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9/20/2008  10:06 AM
I approve. When Walsh came here he knew he had to rebuild and if holding onto draft picks makes us a better team in the future( Walsh isnt trying for the quick fix) I agree. We have given up so much in the past for recycled junk that our reputation as "wheeler dealers" has been laughed about across the NBA. Walsh is trying to get it across to the rest of the NBA that the Knicks arent gonna take junk! I like that attitude. As I said before Im not expecting miracles this season,maybe another 10 wins or so but all i want is to be excited about turning on the game and seeing a team that competes every game and excites the us the fans with their play. It got to the point that every game we expected them to lose and now i want that attitude that they expect to win every game. Thats a hard attitude to teach a team but if the players see that MGT isnt taking no guff from anyone that will spill over to their play.
Bonn1997
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9/20/2008  10:12 AM
Posted by Markji:
Posted by izybx:

Hes doing exactly what most of us here have been calling for. Being patient and waiting for a good deal is refreshing after years of Isiah spazzing out. Im sure the right deal will come along at some point in the next couple years.
IZY, I am with you on this one. I think Zach will be gone by the trade deadline.
Gone to prison? Gone to the inactive list with an injury to his microfracture-repaired knee because the chubby guy can't handle the fast paced offense of D'Antoni? There's a lot of bad possibilities you have to take into account too.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 09-20-2008 10:16 AM]
Bonn1997
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9/20/2008  10:14 AM
A little reminder here: The Toronto Raptors gave us a 1st round pick (Balkman) to take on an extra year of Jalen Rose's contract. This is somewhat customary in the NBA. The SA Spurs gave us 2 (Collins, Lee) to take on Malik Rose for Nazr in return. It's common.
Those are great examples. One thing to note is that the team taking on salary didn't give up anything young and worth a roster spot in them, whereas we'd be getting Darko and a (2nd rd) pick.
Uptown
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9/20/2008  10:26 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
A little reminder here: The Toronto Raptors gave us a 1st round pick (Balkman) to take on an extra year of Jalen Rose's contract. This is somewhat customary in the NBA. The SA Spurs gave us 2 (Collins, Lee) to take on Malik Rose for Nazr in return. It's common.
Those are great examples. One thing to note is that the team taking on salary didn't give up anything young and worth a roster spot in them, whereas we'd be getting Darko and a (2nd rd) pick.

Those first round picks from the Rapts and Spurs (perennial playoff teams) were picks towards the back end of the first round. The Knicks are/will be a fixture in the lotto for a while. Not mention we are already down a pick in 2010. No way am I giving up anymore first round picks.
crzymdups
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9/20/2008  10:51 AM
Approve. It's gonna be ugly this year, but its better that than having to overpay to rid us of Zach.
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nyk4ever
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9/20/2008  11:00 AM
I approve. Zach's value is at it's lowest, I don't see one way it can get any lower. Give him a shot in D'Antoni's offense and see how well he does, if he does really well and puts up 23 points a game then its only going to help his value.

Donnie knows what he's doing and he knows how to deal with players with baggage (just look at what he got for Ron Artest and Stephen Jackson) and he's got 2 more years to trade Zach in the right trade. There is no reason to take back bad contracts and give up draft picks just to get rid of Zach now. In 2 years, we're still going to be able to get the kind of trade that was offered for Zach this summer and at that point Zach's contract will be even smaller and easier to trade. No problems here.
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TheGame
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9/20/2008  11:00 AM
Posted by Cosmic:

To those that approve:

Is it because you like Zach and believe his "20/10" is part of a winning program?

or

Is it because you truly believe Walsh will get a better offer than the Clipper offer? Or anything more than the Memphis offer?


A little reminder here: The Toronto Raptors gave us a 1st round pick (Balkman) to take on an extra year of Jalen Rose's contract. This is somewhat customary in the NBA. The SA Spurs gave us 2 (Collins, Lee) to take on Malik Rose for Nazr in return. It's common.

To think we can dump Zach who is a known trouble maker for anything better than that Clipper offer of full cap space + 2nd rounder in return for the 2012 first rounder is on the utmost level of optimism.

To think Zach will get easier to dump as time moves forward I think is short sighted given he is still Zach, it's still a mega deal, there's room for him to implode further this year damaging his worth, and again it still stands that many team desire and get 1st rounders thrown in to take back longer contracts in return. Deal #1 was a steal, Deal #2 wasn't. Deal #3 won't outdo Deal #1 when it comes along. Especially seeing how everyone wants a 1st rounder in return (supposedly, of course, as we still don't know what is accurate and what is not)

There's also nothing that says that we can't deal Crawford for a 1st rounder and filler as well so the whole desire to cling to that 2012 pick is a little confusing to me given our situation.

These are good points and why I would have been inclined to get rid of him now. I understand Walsh's reasoning but I am sure the clippers would have taken a lottery protected 1st round pick. Now we are in the situation that we have to play him, or else he is going to act up, and we have to hope that he plays well. If he does, we probably can trade him in January. If not, then we will be stuck with him and his salary for another year. The Clippers deal was solid IMO if it was a lottery-protected pick. Hell, they could have kept their 2nd rounder and just let us protect the pick for like three years.
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nixluva
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9/20/2008  11:17 AM
I approve. You just can't do a deal when you're trying to rebuild, that costs you future picks which are already diminished by Isiah's trades. We have 2 full years which includes 2 trade deadlines and 2 off seasons. There is no need to panic just yet. I'm glad he's not jumping at just any deal.
markvmc
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9/20/2008  11:32 AM
Approve. Both deals reportedly involved us giving up first rounders to have Zach taken off our hands. What's not to like about saying no to that?
CrushAlot
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9/20/2008  12:08 PM
Approve. There was a great break down of the Memphis trade (possibly on Knicksblog.com) that showed the financial aspect of the trade and how the savings was not what it appeared to be. This was before it came out that a pick was involved. There is alot that I don't approve with Walsh but I think he did the right thing in this situation.
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Allanfan20
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9/20/2008  12:22 PM
Approve. Don't let yourself get fleeced. We have an entire 2 seasons to find a sucker. There's bound to be one.
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Bonn1997
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9/20/2008  12:27 PM
Posted by Uptown:
Posted by Bonn1997:
A little reminder here: The Toronto Raptors gave us a 1st round pick (Balkman) to take on an extra year of Jalen Rose's contract. This is somewhat customary in the NBA. The SA Spurs gave us 2 (Collins, Lee) to take on Malik Rose for Nazr in return. It's common.
Those are great examples. One thing to note is that the team taking on salary didn't give up anything young and worth a roster spot in them, whereas we'd be getting Darko and a (2nd rd) pick.

Those first round picks from the Rapts and Spurs (perennial playoff teams) were picks towards the back end of the first round. The Knicks are/will be a fixture in the lotto for a while. Not mention we are already down a pick in 2010. No way am I giving up anymore first round picks.
The Knicks' pick would be in 2012
TheGame
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9/20/2008  12:32 PM
Posted by CrushAlot:

Approve. There was a great break down of the Memphis trade (possibly on Knicksblog.com) that showed the financial aspect of the trade and how the savings was not what it appeared to be. This was before it came out that a pick was involved. There is alot that I don't approve with Walsh but I think he did the right thing in this situation.

I agree with passing on the Memphis deal. That was ridiculous what they wanted us to do. The Clippers deal though was very reasonable if we could have added lottery protection for the pick.
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Pharzeone
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9/20/2008  1:28 PM
LOL. Zack will be a part of the Knick organization long after both Walsh and D'Antoni are gone.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
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