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djsunyc
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8/1/2008  11:59 AM
ok, i've been with my company for 12 years now. i'm a software engineer, "senior systems analyst" is the official title, but basically i write code all day. now, here's the kicker, i program in mainframe assembly language. yes - shocking i know. i know there is a shift in focus at my company to java and i am thinking about taking a course.

so for all the programmers out there, should i just take a course in java and get my certification? i would like to stay at my company and go into the java side of things but in case i have to look for another job, should i look into another area that would give me more opportunities?

[Edited by - djsunyc on 08-01-2008 12:00 PM]
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martin
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8/1/2008  12:08 PM
you paying for the certification or company? I assume you or you wouldn't be asking, right?
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djsunyc
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8/1/2008  12:30 PM
Posted by martin:

you paying for the certification or company? I assume you or you wouldn't be asking, right?

that is correct. it would come out of my pocket.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 08-01-2008 12:30 PM]
Panos
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8/1/2008  1:27 PM
Personally, I wouldn't bother with the certification.
I've never heard of anybody ask for it. I've been a java programmer for 8 years.
Of course, who knows, could just be my personal experience and others do ask for it.
djsunyc
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8/1/2008  1:29 PM
Posted by Panos:

Personally, I wouldn't bother with the certification.
I've never heard of anybody ask for it. I've been a java programmer for 8 years.
Of course, who knows, could just be my personal experience and others do ask for it.

so just learn it on my own (or through a course) and that should be enough to at least get an entry level position if i'm thinking of leaving?
mythfaze
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8/1/2008  1:34 PM
http://www.w3schools.com/js/default.asp

Use this site. They have great tutorials and are set up so you'll be able to learn for free, then if you want you can pay to take a certification exam afterward.
djsunyc
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8/1/2008  1:36 PM
Posted by mythfaze:

http://www.w3schools.com/js/default.asp

Use this site. They have great tutorials and are set up so you'll be able to learn for free, then if you want you can pay to take a certification exam afterward.

thanks.

i see that's javascript - that's different from actual java, right?
mythfaze
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8/1/2008  1:41 PM
Oh, sorry about that. Yeah they are different - "distant cousins." Java is more complex and has a larger set of commands.
Panos
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8/1/2008  1:43 PM
Well, that's the thing, that's why I put the disclaimer.
I never really had to do the first step of getting the entry level job in java.
I learned it on the job at one place, and then had experience when I interviewed at the next place.
In this business, people really like to tech you out in interviews, so personally, I think its more important to be able to understand it thoroughly and be able to answer questions about it, than the certification. I know if I were interviewing, and I've done a bit of that, that's what I look for. To me, those things are meaningless.
subzero0
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8/1/2008  1:45 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by mythfaze:

http://www.w3schools.com/js/default.asp

Use this site. They have great tutorials and are set up so you'll be able to learn for free, then if you want you can pay to take a certification exam afterward.

thanks.

i see that's javascript - that's different from actual java, right?

Yea JavaScript is just a scripting language based on some of the syntax rules used in Java. But full blown Java code that is interpreted into bytecode is different. You want either Java or C#.

I am 2 years out of college and I have been using C# and I love it. There are opportunities a plenty out there for both C# and Java. Start with a CBT or book in either language and get started. Personally I find C# much easier a language to program in but its a matter of personal preference.
martin
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8/1/2008  1:46 PM
Posted by Panos:

Well, that's the thing, that's why I put the disclaimer.
I never really had to do the first step of getting the entry level job in java.
I learned it on the job at one place, and then had experience when I interviewed at the next place.
In this business, people really like to tech you out in interviews, so personally, I think its more important to be able to understand it thoroughly and be able to answer questions about it, than the certification. I know if I were interviewing, and I've done a bit of that, that's what I look for. To me, those things are meaningless.

agreed here, although I would add that I don't do java so I don't know that landscape very well. dude, you got 12 years programming experience, so that says a lot right there.

pick up a good book, start doing it at work; it'll probably come easy. And then voila, new job offers.
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martin
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8/1/2008  1:48 PM
ps, what's assembly?
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Panos
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8/1/2008  1:49 PM
Posted by subzero0:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by mythfaze:

http://www.w3schools.com/js/default.asp

Use this site. They have great tutorials and are set up so you'll be able to learn for free, then if you want you can pay to take a certification exam afterward.

thanks.

i see that's javascript - that's different from actual java, right?

Yea JavaScript is just a scripting language based on some of the syntax rules used in Java. But full blown Java code that is interpreted into bytecode is different. You want either Java or C#.

I am 2 years out of college and I have been using C# and I love it. There are opportunities a plenty out there for both C# and Java. Start with a CBT or book in either language and get started. Personally I find C# much easier a language to program in but its a matter of personal preference.

Actually, subzero, I was a C++ "expert" before I got into Java, and you'll be surprised how much java simplifies C++. I hope I never have to go back.
djsunyc
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8/1/2008  1:53 PM
Posted by martin:

ps, what's assembly?

i know.

learned turbo pascal in college. then took this job where they trained me in assembly for 3 months and have been here ever since. it's actually a cool language, real nuts and bolts of it all.

i've never really learned object oriented programming before. i did pick up a java book and started the first 2 chapters a few months ago but then dropped it. i think i'll just finish the book, do the examples and then take it from there.

thanks for the advice and info all.
Panos
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8/1/2008  1:54 PM
Posted by martin:

ps, what's assembly?

Seriously, after I finished grad school, I had a job doing assembly code, and when I told my prof about it, he practically kidnapped me and got me a job at his company.
nyk4ever
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8/1/2008  1:56 PM
DJ, I took a bunch of java courses in college, I hated it but then again I hate programming, so that doesn't say too much.

You shouldn't have a problem picking it up if you have 12 years experience with other languages. That's not to say they will be similar but you will be able to pick it up rather quickly, especially if I was able to.
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ActionJackson
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8/1/2008  2:07 PM
Posted by Panos:

Personally, I wouldn't bother with the certification.
I've never heard of anybody ask for it. I've been a java programmer for 8 years.
Of course, who knows, could just be my personal experience and others do ask for it.

Panos,

DJ is a black man...Black dudes always get asked for certification (& whether or not they've been to prison) before even being buzzed into the office to be interviewed.

Sincerely,
J. Wright
subzero0
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8/1/2008  2:08 PM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by subzero0:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by mythfaze:

http://www.w3schools.com/js/default.asp

Use this site. They have great tutorials and are set up so you'll be able to learn for free, then if you want you can pay to take a certification exam afterward.

thanks.

i see that's javascript - that's different from actual java, right?

Yea JavaScript is just a scripting language based on some of the syntax rules used in Java. But full blown Java code that is interpreted into bytecode is different. You want either Java or C#.

I am 2 years out of college and I have been using C# and I love it. There are opportunities a plenty out there for both C# and Java. Start with a CBT or book in either language and get started. Personally I find C# much easier a language to program in but its a matter of personal preference.

Actually, subzero, I was a C++ "expert" before I got into Java, and you'll be surprised how much java simplifies C++. I hope I never have to go back.

No Panos I wasnt talking about C++ I am talking about C#.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_Sharp_(programming_language)

You'll be surprised how much C# simplifies Java.

[Edited by - subzero0 on 08-01-2008 2:09 PM]
Andrew
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8/1/2008  2:09 PM
I'd second subzero0's reccomendation for C#. I personally don't use it, but it seems like there are just a ton of C# jobs out there.
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Solace
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8/1/2008  2:24 PM
Wow, didn't realize there was so many programmers on this site.

My suggestions are generally that the big three languages are C++, Java and C#. The general trend seems to be that the C++ jobs are becoming higher paying because the pool of talented C++ developers isn't growing and students are coming out of college not knowing C++. C++ has the longest learning curve and you'll find that your average coworker won't have invested the time to fully master the language, while there's a higher chance of coworkers mastering the other two languages I will mention.

According to some sites, Java is in the lead, but it seems like the margin is dwindling. Java's niche seems to be middleware and has a strong foothold in the embedded world, due to the portability aspect. I've had multiple recruiters tell me that C# is growing fast as one of the most heavily used languages in the industry. Knowing one of the three is extremely important. If you're starting from scratch, I'd probably say to go for C#. My main knock against C# over Java in the past has been the portability aspect, but now with how far Mono has come, that's becoming less and less of an issue.

As for certification, it's worthelss if you're a software developer. Degrees are worth a lot (BS, MS, MBA, in particular), but certifications won't get you a dime extra.

P.S.: The one area where I wouldn't suggest C# or Java over C++ is game development; most game development companies are heavily invested in C++ and will be for a long time.

[Edited by - Solace on Aug 01 2008 2:28 PM]
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
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