I am the iceman, I am the Anti Andrew i am here to stir it up a little.

recently the knicks have made some moves in order to change the direction. This has bought up great debate for knick fans and Nba fans in general. There seems to be no Gray area in this debate either you like the moves or hate it, no one knows the results of the moves, but one thing is certain we all got opinions.

so like i mention the topic has drawed alot of dialogue some personal, but Talk is Cheap, many of it forgotten, So I created the thread so we can all be acountable of these opinions come June 2004.

The ote is simple , to be considered a decent team you got to win a few games over 500 in the NBA, so i figuree 44 is a nice even number and fair to be judged in a you suck or not poll.

put your vote in, this is not a debate thread. will the knicks win more than 44 games in 20 words or less. Cast your vote.

Moderators, can you guys store this thread after it gets old, maybe we can actually make the Ban the losers for the summer or something. but i think it's a good Poll every one please vote.

the knicks won't win 44 games.

in the immortal words of mike tyson, that's "ludicrous"

necrom at least you are giving them something. i don't think they will even win 40 games period. they were 37-45 last year.

sounds about right

i think the knicks were something like 12-12 against the west

Iceman, you started this & you don't have the balls to give a guess? You waiting for everybody to vote so you can decide after they have all made their case?

I think its best to wait until at least the pre-season to predict how many wins. This is the peak of trading season. When all the teams that did not get what they wanted in the draft or free agency, turn to trades to tweak their rosters.

All that being said, if I had to take a guess at how the current roster would do in the regular season I'd say that they can in 44 games because after the Nets & Pistons, the east is soft as charmin.

The Pistons are a much better team than last year with the added frontcourt depth in Campbell & Milicic; plus they have Larry Brown. The Nets are the team to beat in the east without Mourning. If he comes back to even 80%, they could be scary. Indiana got worst with the Miller trade, IMO. They might of fallen back into the pack on that move. The rest of the east is wide open...

Knicks get bigger but we still got a vacent spot at center that needs to be filled defensively, 44 seems a bit out of reach for the Knicks at this point. However if Dyess makes a remarkable recovery they could reach & pass that mark, but I wouldnt bet on it.

good points guys, lets say as presently constructed, we all know if shaq comes than 40 games is not out the reach and as for mcdeyes i will leave that up to the voter fishmike did a good job, two mjor knee operations sway my votings, 39 games

Like.... Van Horn deal. The team at least then has the chance to improve. This deal does not make or break the Knicks this season. They could miss the playoffs without Spree just as well as with him. Minny gets a good deal.. he'll be great on a contender. I will watch them this year. Garnett is my favorite NBA player. Spree is fun to watch. Go Wolves.

Like... Lampe. Excellent future #2 to #3 option. Will he get some post presence to complement his outside game?

Not sure... Frank Williams. Will he earn minutes this year? Will be consistent?

Not sure.. where Kurt fits. Get some picks for him.. wherever he goes or Trade to contender mid-year. Seattle a likely destination for Vladamir Radmonovic. Sweetney will need minutes. Unlikely able to deal Othella.

Don't like.. The precarious position Layden has put us in.

Don't like..The Sweetney pick. At #9 you don't want a role player which I think he will be.. albeit a very good role player. Jarvis Hayes, Cabarkapa, Pavlovic would have made more sense.

Don't like.. Why couldn't we have pried some high ceiling players from teams.. Stephen Jackson, Gerald Wallace, Eddie Robinson... some creativity... something. Surprise me Scott.. unlikely though.

ice he has had 3 knee surgeries

37 without Dice, 44 with Dice.

Wassup fellas? Anybody miss me? I'll have to sift through all this and get back to you in the morning.

Listen up clones, The knicks as is (without dice) will win 44 games, With Dice over that amount. Remember with the other scorer being out(spree +pinky) we started off 1-7 so half of those games takes us over the 40 game mark. This team has another guy named Vanhorn who doesn't have to worry about getting his shots, or a ball hog guard on this team who makes teammates stand around and lose focus as the shot clock winds down. CHANEY AND THE PLAYERS ARE REALLY GONNA SUPRISE A FEW TEAMS THIS YR. How many games did we lose last yr becuz we couldn't grab a reb in last minute or so in games? Rebounding should improve as KT, Sweetney,LAMPE AND VANHORN concentrate on getting the ball off the rim after a missed shot. The NY KNICKS play in the Eastern Conf and who knows the misfortunes injuries might play during an 82 game season. Allan Houston is offically the "MAN" and he will probably play his best as a knick(totally focused) since spree is gone NO MORE COMPETEING WITH HIM FOR SHOTS. Lampe and sweetney will be nervous in the early part but will relax and calm down as the season goes on. Frank Williams should be most improved knick this yr. As for the League, with all the trades, draft picks, free agency being represented this yr in the NBA, chemistry will be the most important factor on a team by team basis.