Then it's the same mistake as last year. curry gets no challenge and Lee's strengths are wasted. zach is just not being put to good use here. If we could combined he and Lee's rebounding potential together, then that's a potential defense against second chance shots for other teams that could add up to anywhere from 10 to 20 points a game. That means we could win about an extra ten games (or more) on the year, as being one of the more dominating rebounding teams.

I'm telling you dude, it's a complete waste. curry, with all the minutes he puts up can't rebound for ****! He can't block shots, he can't even score anymore and for a center, he's a bit turnover prone. It's a real shame he's not challenged and forced to earn that position. He's the black Chris Dudley.

you look at the 82games.com lineups and we were actually pretty good with Lee at PF and Zach at center and there is significant data to represent.

The Pistons went from 32-50 to 50-32 in one year with the same core of guys in Wallace, Atkins, Corlis and Crackhouse. They got some better role players and Rick Carlisle came into a coach. Anything is possible and this group simply didnt compete on a nightly basis. If we can cut some fat (Marbury + Curry?) and get them playing hard for a winning coach at least then we could better evaluate what we have and dont have

the knicks will not and can not be worse than they've been the past 3 years. this team will not have any more drama associated and will basically just be able to play basketball. so no matter what, this year will be an improvement over the past two. the next few years will be an improvement over the past few. i think if you're a knicks fan, you sit back and see what happens. but i suggest throwing the whole "championship or bust" thought process out the window or else you won't be able to enjoy the product.

The mismatched roster has been a problem for a long while. It makes no sense trying to ignore that we have a bunch of rabbits and gazeles and a couple of elephants on the team and they just don't go together. Curry and Zach are plodders and have no place on this team as it's setup for the future. I don't hate them talent wise, but they stand out as guys who just don't make sense on an uptempo team.

I believe D'Antoni could force it and make it work to an extent, but we'd get more mileage with at least one of them removed.

When you add in foul trouble or guys needing a blow from this frantic pace,a lot of guys will be forced to get minutes.

Posted by playa2:

Posted by fishmike:

you look at the 82games.com lineups and we were actually pretty good with Lee at PF and Zach at center and there is significant data to represent.

The Pistons went from 32-50 to 50-32 in one year with the same core of guys in Wallace, Atkins, Corlis and Crackhouse. They got some better role players and Rick Carlisle came into a coach. Anything is possible and this group simply didnt compete on a nightly basis. If we can cut some fat (Marbury + Curry?) and get them playing hard for a winning coach at least then we could better evaluate what we have and dont have

The reason why a complete turnaround would not work for us is this.

The pistons focused on defense 1st, the knicks philosphy under D'antoni is offense 1st.


I think we will have a few stat whores , but this teams record won't improve that much with the emphasis being a scoring team that tries to outscore their opponents not defend them.

If we're talking about defense, then it's a good point.

Posted by tkf:

Posted by fishmike:

you look at the 82games.com lineups and we were actually pretty good with Lee at PF and Zach at center and there is significant data to represent.

The Pistons went from 32-50 to 50-32 in one year with the same core of guys in Wallace, Atkins, Corlis and Crackhouse. They got some better role players and Rick Carlisle came into a coach. Anything is possible and this group simply didnt compete on a nightly basis. If we can cut some fat (Marbury + Curry?) and get them playing hard for a winning coach at least then we could better evaluate what we have and dont have

I see what you are saying fish, but zach at center, is a mess IMO... I know curry is no bill russel, but at least he could jump to block a shot... zach is just not a presence there, not at all.. Now if we do go with that lineup of Lee at PF and zach at center, then we will need chandler at SF and honestly I was hoping to give gallo and chandler most of the time at SF and PF, I mean that is supposed to be our future right? But hey if we start chandler with gallo the 6th man off the bench, that would not be so bad...

It's not so much that whether zach or curry are a presence (we already know the scenario), it's about how do we get Lee more minutes to make some difference this time? I also forgot to mention that Chandler, who showed tons of potential at the end last year, will be on the other wing.

zach/curry - center
Lee - PF
Chandler - SF

But in answer to the center problem, THIS IS WHY WE NEEDED TO DRAFT A CENTER. Sorry! But that would have made more sense. Whether it be Koufos, Lopez (or even his brother).

The Knicks don't have a center, and until Shaq came over, Phoenix did not have a real center during the the D'Antoni/Nash glory years either. Amare was playing center during most of those years, and if you look at his actual height, he is measured at 6' 8.5" (barefoot). Makes you think that D'Antoni doesn't see the center position in the traditional way.

At some point, the Knicks need a guy who can block shots and intimidate drivers, rebound, distribute from the post, and have an inside game with the ability to hit the short jumper (under 15) when left open, and have some ability to be part of the transition game (To be honest, a Willis Reed, who was more like 6'8"-6'9" would be perfect in D'Antoni's system, much more so than Shaq.) You don't need a superstar, just a guy who can be happy with a 12 pt game if he does all the other things well and his team wins.

I did not like most of the centers in the draft. Koufos might have been interesting, but he was a stretch at 6. Pekovic doesn't play defense like a center, and he had the contract issue, and I was not enamored with the Lopez boys. I liked the Gallinari pick, and was hoping he would get picked, because he has as much versatility as a player as anyone who was drafted

I want to see the guys who might be on this team 3-5 years from now play. For me, based on talent and age, that list includes Chandler, Gallinari, Lee, Nate, Duhon (maybe) and that is about it. The others will either be too old or they don't have the ability to play in the kind of system the Knicks will be playing if D'Antoni sticks.

I don't care about winning games at this point. I just want to see the team improve as the year goes on. I would not mind having another chance at a top 10 lottery pick. Should be a couple of centers or a PG we can pick up, and what if we get lucky in the lottery like Chicago?

[Edited by - Paladin55 on 07-17-2008 2:28 PM]

Posted by 4949:

Like chicago? I suppose we'd have to get that lucky at some point, but I'm not gonna bet all my time on it.

I would not could on it happening, of course- and you don't make decisions betting on it. I just don't care if we lose this year, and if we do lose- getting a decent lottery pick is not exactly a bad thing.

What I am saying is that I would rather have guys play who we can expect to be part of a successful Knicks team in a few years. Playing the guys who might give us our best record THIS year, who you don't expect to be playing on the Knicks in 3-5 years, is a waste of time IMHO, unless you really believe that you can improve the value of certain players for a future trade. And lets face it, with Randoph everyone already knows what you are getting, and with Curry, you never know what you are getting because of his weight, his health, inconsistency, and the simple fact that he is not that good of a player. Randolph is going play like he always does, and even if Curry has a decent year, another team might not want him anyway because of all his problems.

[Edited by - Paladin55 on 07-17-2008 3:59 PM]