i'm serious come on now. if it takes a big man inside to demand double teams for latrell sprewell and allan houston to perform at all-star levels then what does that really say about sprewell and houston?

logic. if their was a big man inside to command double teams like tim duncan or shaq then would it really matter if the sg and the sf were all-stars i mean really come on now

paul pierce doesn't have a big man inside commanding double teams
neither does tracy mcgrady
neither does allen iverson
neither will lebron
neither did ray allen
vince carter
who else?


allan houston is the new york knicks franchise player. you mean to tell me he can't perform at an all-star level unless he has another franchise player commanding double teams in the paint

it's been awhile since they made the all-star team that may have something to do with it

and neither really plays team ball.

neither are leaders.

and this is coming from a diehard sprewell fan who knows that
neither player can really dribble. all this fuss about no point guard and these two make trillions and can't even bring the ball up court. HAHA

allan houston can only be judged by his scoring avg. and he is the franchise player. come on now you have got to admit that's sad

sprewell is the small forward. and he is playing out of position and yet still he is the best all-around player on the team. now that's sad. animosity between the two exist. of course it does. how can it not

allan houston wasn't even on the all-star balloting radar. come on. aint nobody crazy now.

sprewell and houston i like them both. they are real knicks. but all this they need an inside post player who commands double teams to shine is nothing more than a camoflauged stab in the back. what player doesn't need a big man in the middle who commands double teams???

it's a camoflauge i feel because they are supossed to be all-stars not even superstars but at least all-stars. but i know as of now that they are not all-star caliber players

do you?

Wake up Prod, none of those players are over 30 yrs of age,Spree and Houston are.

the reason why Spree is not a allstar is because he is playing out position;put him back as a shooting guard and hell penetrate and create baskets for himself;plus he plays way better d-fence than allan.....just my tought's

thanks necrom. and tk. good post to both of you.

i have finally came to grips with the fact that neither are all-star players. since i have accepted it i can now understand why the knicks are mediocre still

Posted by playa2:

Wake up Prod, none of those players are over 30 yrs of age,Spree and Houston are.

Doesn't matter how old you are. An All-star is an all-star. If you have, you have it. If you don't you don't. Those guys prod mentioned have the ability to score and create points, with or without the help of someone else.

Spree could do that when he was the sixth man. Houston can only shoot when he has a good look.

All-stars can score no matter what the situation or the pressure. Face it: we don't have an all-star on this NYK team as of yet. Spree isn't one, maybe he will step up this year. But Allan sure as hell won't be one again with the way he is playing.

You people will never change... I keep reading your posts about how Spree should be traded for a cup cake.. How he should be traded for whatever we can taeke.. about how noone wants him... You must be high to think this man is not valuable to our organization. He's prob the only reason people went to games last year... Layden is too stupid to ust keep this guy and let his contract expire... and I hope he goes to a good team and goes far.. cause we really don't deserve him on our team. Once he wxcells elsewhere you will all start crying foul and demanding Layden's head... The anti-Spree posts are making me sick... But whatever... its your opinion..

The problem w/ Sprewell is that as he's gotten older, he's lost a little of the explosiveness and athleticism that served him so well early in his career, when he looked poised to become a regular all-NBA 1st or 2nd teamer.

While his all-around skills are still excellent, he's not quite the effective finisher he used to be. It seems as if he can only barely elevate high enough to dunk the ball, not kill the ball (like Shandon Anderson!).

Sprewell seems to have lost a little with his shooting touch (which was streaky to begin with). While he's still the Knick player most likely to get a triple double, he's definitely not the player he was with Golden State where he played at 100 mph all the time. Nowadays, he seems to coast a bit.

I think to save the toll on his body, I think he might be most effective in his initial role as a Knick, a 30+mpg 6th man... and letting Shandon Anderson earn his dough a little bit. By player fewer minutes, he can go 100% every minute he's on the court, causing disruption left and right.

As for Houston, he has improved his game over the last few seasons. His defense has gone from poor, to average. He seems more effective at drawing fouls than every before in his career. In addition, he has matured into one of the very best FT shooters in the league.

Neither of these guys can carry a team like Paul Pierce or T-Mac... but at the same time, T-Mac hasn't won anything in Orlando, Vince Carter has been slowed by injuries.

One has to wonder, how do Houston and Sprewell size up to some of the young starting-quality swingmen, like Q. Richardson and Jason Richardson... not to mention Ron Artest, Rip Hamilton, Wally Sczerbiak, Shane Battier, and players of that nature?

How do they size up against swingmen playing for serious contenders like Finley, Christie, Peja, George, Jefferson, Kittles, Prince, Stephen Jackson, and Manu Ginobli?

Funny how we'd probably rate Sprewell and Houston above most of these guys *right now*, but most of these guys have youth in their favor.

Posted by technomaster:

I think to save the toll on his body, I think he might be most effective in his initial role as a Knick, a 30+mpg 6th man... and letting Shandon Anderson earn his dough a little bit. By player fewer minutes, he can go 100% every minute he's on the court, causing disruption left and right.

I always thought Spree's best role with the current mix of players was off the bench. That way he could play more SG when Houston sits and he would bring a ton of energy and focus to the second team. Don't know if his ego could take it, but I agree with you, starting on the bench is a sound plan, ala the Camby/Spree off the bench days.

Posted by playa2:

name so called all-stars over thirty something

this is not that kind of thread. if you don't think they are all-stars any longer then...
a simple "no" will do

sir

In that case, I believe that under different circumstances, both Houston and Sprewell are capable of performing at an all-star caliber level, by all-star, we mean among the top 12-15 players (or top 3-4 at their position) in their conference.

If we're talking all-stars in terms of popularity, I think the NBA has made significant efforts to represent Houston as an all-star caliber player (by his presence in NBA promotional materials, ballot box art, commercials, etc).

What dictates popularity of a player? One example is performance on the court. Is his team winning, is he putting up huge numbers, does he have a lot of highlights on sportscenter? All of these factor in.

Other factors come off the court. Does he contribute to charities, does he crossover to other media (music, tv, movies...)? Do women want to be with him and men want to be him?

Now Houston's boring, and perhaps a little dumb and quiet. There's just nothing exciting about him-- he's an interview robot, "First, I'd like to thank the lord for giving me the opportunity to play... there's no I in team... I always give 110%... we just try to play our style of basketball... I just try to work hard in practice..."

He had the opportunity to do a sex scene w/ Claudia Schiffer in a movie... he got too nervous (because of his devout Christian beliefs) and they took out the scene. Wimp! (Ray Allen had no prob getting naked w/ Rosario Dawson!) He also appeared in the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue for beautiful couples. It's not that he hasn't had his opportunities... he just doesn't have the right personality. Too quiet.

Sprewell's public persona has been helped and hindered by his choking history... and his little troubles w/ the law and media (his dog eating his daughter's ear, breaking his hand, flipping a porsche and fleeing the scene). However... Knick fans have most recently been turned off by reports of his lateness and lack of performance on the court. After reaching the NBA finals, SLAM and other magazines predicted a Sprewell renaissance--- it never happened. Now he's older, maybe lost half a step... and unless the Knicks start winning big, he won't be playing in the all-star game again.

Techno, good post.

I think you're right in that the NBA (by choice) and the Knicks (who have no choice) have made efforts to make Housless more popular. But the fans aren't buying it. You know. You can fool all of the people some of the time... etc etc etc...

It's common knowledge that, while he has improved, Housless is still a one trick pony. A straight up jump shooter. That just won't get it done, as far as popularity goes. And the All-Star game is more popularity contest than anything else. On the other hand, let's be realistic and give the homer mentality a bit of a rest. No way is Allan Housless going to sit Iverson, Tmac or Pierce (to just name 3) come All-Star time.

As far as Spree goes, I have an unproveable theory. Let me state that he is my favorite Knicks player. But in all honesty, I think he's given up. I have nothing to back that up with, but it's my gut feeling. If that's true, he's not right and while I wouldn't condone it, I can't say I wouldn't understand it. Age has robbed him of a step as well and the constant banging and trying to play out of position has, IMO, shortened his career. I'm hoping they move Spree somewhere where he can revive his career. NY is going nowhere fast and Spree is now the 2K version of Ewing. Once our best and most popular player, now somehow everything that is wrong with the franchise. I hope they move him sooner than they did with Ew, while he can contribute to another team.