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A good big man is going to fall in this draft.
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Ira
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5/26/2008  11:39 AM
I'm hoping that somehow we can get a second pick in the first round. There's going to be a pretty good big man available somewhere in the 15-20 range. Between McGee, Speights, Jordan and Koufos, one or more of those big men will be available in the second half of round one. Assuming we get a small forward or guard with the sixth pick, we could also get a good inside role player or more if we can come up with a second pick - and hopefully it won't cost us too much.
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4949
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5/26/2008  11:44 AM
Koufos is the man. I'm telling ya! If we can get a second high pick, then we have a chance to get him also. He's only a freshman, a huge build with tons of upside. Virtually no flaws at all.
I'll never trust this' team again.
nixluva
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5/26/2008  11:59 AM
I like what i've seen of Javale McGee. It's not getting much press, but this draft is full of bigs with upside and not "using your imagination" type of upside. The guys already have shown they've got the tools to grow into possible studs in time. A lot of young guys, but overall they have a good base so far.

I have to think that Waltoni will have to be considering doing what other rebuilding teams have done and look to pick up another draft pick for a deep draft. We won't need another high pick either, so that should make it easier to make a move for a pick.
fishmike
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5/26/2008  12:06 PM
McGee and Randolph both give me red flags. They strike me as weak and guys that will quickly settle for long jumpers because the paint in this league is patrolled by monsters. I think there are a lot of centers in this draft that wont be in the league after their rookie contracts run out
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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5/26/2008  12:06 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Waltoni
lol... good one


"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
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5/26/2008  12:12 PM
Posted by fishmike:

McGee and Randolph both give me red flags. They strike me as weak and guys that will quickly settle for long jumpers because the paint in this league is patrolled by monsters. I think there are a lot of centers in this draft that wont be in the league after their rookie contracts run out

Fishmike--here is a good unbiased article on Mcgee. He's a legit 7-1 240 with a 7-6 wingspan+ quite athletic for his size with a multitude of skills and a very smooth type game. If you read this article--this is akid who is willing to work hard and with that he has many attributes that you just don't see 7 foot players having much of. After the top 3 players I cant think of a player with more upside IMHO then him. He's got all the skills hes getting bigger stronger and working hard on his game--many of these guys dont work hard or just dont have nearly the skill he has.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/JaVale-McGee-Workout-The-Big-Secret-2883/
RIP Crushalot😞
4949
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5/26/2008  12:15 PM
Why would you relate Fishmike with unbiased? Who's being biased here?
I'll never trust this' team again.
purple012870
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5/26/2008  12:41 PM
How would you compare Koufos vs Brook Lopez? Am I correct in saying that Koufos lacks hops, quicks & is more of a plodding big man in the Big Z mode?
fishmike
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5/26/2008  12:59 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by fishmike:

McGee and Randolph both give me red flags. They strike me as weak and guys that will quickly settle for long jumpers because the paint in this league is patrolled by monsters. I think there are a lot of centers in this draft that wont be in the league after their rookie contracts run out

Fishmike--here is a good unbiased article on Mcgee. He's a legit 7-1 240 with a 7-6 wingspan+ quite athletic for his size with a multitude of skills and a very smooth type game. If you read this article--this is akid who is willing to work hard and with that he has many attributes that you just don't see 7 foot players having much of. After the top 3 players I cant think of a player with more upside IMHO then him. He's got all the skills hes getting bigger stronger and working hard on his game--many of these guys dont work hard or just dont have nearly the skill he has.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/JaVale-McGee-Workout-The-Big-Secret-2883/
I read article already. Dont get me wrong.. I have an open mind on these guys. And if we draft one I will be VERY excited because it means Walshtoni were that high on one of them, and I believe in those guys.

I think I am in love with Westbrook as the pick because we will have a guard who is going to relish going out and defending the best scorers in the NBA. Starks was the last guy with that mentality.. maybe Spree.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
4949
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5/26/2008  1:10 PM
Posted by purple012870:

How would you compare Koufos vs Brook Lopez? Am I correct in saying that Koufos lacks hops, quicks & is more of a plodding big man in the Big Z mode?

He can't leap high, but again he doesn't have to. He's huge! He's one of those smooth players. A rarity with big men and he can shoot the ball from anywhere. Z can take him down right now, but it is the fact that in a few years, maybe three, this kid has a chance to start in the NBA off the bat and be an impact. Right around the time of our big change, so I think it would be perfect. Koufos, because of his huge wingspan can also block shots and rebound.

And if we where to maintain our goal of cap flexibility, then we'd have a shot at LeBron by then and some good pieces to surround them both with. By then also, D'Antoni would have found a balance to work with on this team and that's what LeBron would be coming to, if he where to come here.

I said we should have drafted Bynum a few years ago and we didn't. And I was right about him. Bynum is still developing and he's showing signs of being a force in the middle. I feel the same way about Koufos.

Brooks is a good center. I think he can make an impact right now and we may have already seen his roof. Not bad really, but I just think Koufos roof is higher, in a few years from now.
I'll never trust this' team again.
Ira
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5/26/2008  1:48 PM
One guy who isn't talked about very much is Devon Hardin. The guy is a bull on the boards and plays strong d as well. If we do trade Lee, Hardin could play either the 4 or 5. He'd give us the kind of inside toughness that we haven't seen since we traded Kurt Thomas. Here's Givony's write-up on Hardin.

It’s been almost a full year since the last time we saw Devon Hardin in real game action. 12 games into his junior season, Hardin broke his foot, being forced to sit out the rest of the season for Cal, but still allowing him to test the waters of the NBA draft. He supposedly had a guarantee in place from the Detroit Pistons at the end of the 1st round, but decided to return to Cal regardless, in order to get his degree and move himself further up the draft.

So far, Hardin looks a better prospect than the one we evaluated last season. He’s added quite a bit of strength to his frame, making him even more imposing physically, if that was at all possible. He’s now listed at a sculpted 250 pounds, up from 235 a year ago, and looks every bit the part of NBA center, with a massive wingspan and terrific athletic ability.

Offensively, Hardin looks better than we remember him as well. He’s finishing much better around the rim, going up and taking contact better, not rushing his shots as much as he did in the past, understanding his limitations more willingly, and doing a better job establishing position in the post. His free throw attempts are up considerably (8 per 40 minutes, compared with 5.5 last year), as is his field goal percentage (from 48% to 54%), all because of the reasons described above. Hardin is knocking down his right-handed jump-hook somewhat regularly with range out to about 8 feet, as well as his turnaround jumper, and is looking incredibly active hitting the offensive glass as well, where he can get his team a couple of easy baskets every game by just utilizing his outstanding physical tools to his advantage. When he finishes, the entire arena feels it, and that’s exactly what you want to see out of a player this size. We had concerns in the past about the tentative, uninspired manner in which he conducted himself on the court at times, but these are slowly starting to dry up the more we’re evaluating him these days. He doesn’t always make his presence felt offensively the way one might hope, but it’s no longer because of a lack of effort on his part.

That’s not to say that Hardin is any kind of offensive juggernaut. Far from it, actually. He’s not the type of player you throw the ball to and expect to be able to create offense for himself, as his footwork is noticeably unpolished and he’s fairly limited outside of a few feet around the hoop. He’s somewhat mechanical with his post-moves, and really struggles when forced to finish with his left hand.

This year, Cal seems to be using their center in a role that more closely resembles the one he would play in the NBA. Hardin’s usage is down from 15.4% of his team’s possessions to 12.2%, but he’s doing a much better job with the possessions he is given, improving his points per possession from 1.01 to 1.17. His assist to turnover ratio up is by 150%, which a very encouraging sign for a player like him.

Defensively, Hardin looks excellent at times, but could still make some small adjustments that could make him even more dangerous on this end. He did an excellent job in a game against Michael Beasley by the way when the two were matched up, swatting his shot a number of times (even twice on the perimeter), and not giving him many opportunities at all to score inside the paint. Hardin’s combination of size, length, strength and athleticism is virtually unrivaled at the collegiate level, and allows him to be quite an effective threat challenging shots around the rim. He also has quick enough feet to accurately hedge a pick and roll and recover in ample time, which is very rare from a player his size. His lateral quickness also comes in handy in the post, where he can step in and take a charge, which he looks quite willing to do. Hardin is fouling at a much lower rate than he did in years past (3.3 per 40 minutes this year, compared with 4.9 last year and 5.2 the year before). He’ll still bite on the occasional pump-fake, and will at times get called for a foolish foul far away from the basket, but he’s obviously making solid progress in this area, which is very encouraging. His 2.6 blocks per 40 minutes pace adjusted is certainly solid, but still only ranks him 33rd amongst draft prospects in that category.

To continue to establish his value in the draft as a potential defensive anchor, Hardin must do a better job closing out on his man in the post. He gives up too much space here at times, letting his matchups get deep position in hopes that he’ll be able to outquick them going up for the block when the shot finally goes up. He got scored on quite a bit by players like Kevin Love and Luke Nevill for this reason, from what we saw. We’d also like to see him do a better job protecting his basket making rotations to stop slashers on their way to the rim.

Another encouraging sign we’re seeing has to do with Hardin’s rebounding ability. His 14.9 rebounds per 40 minutes pace adjusted ranks him 4th amongst all draft prospects in that category, and certainly is an important stat considering what his likely role will be at the next level. His hands look better, as does his timing and aggressiveness—which will surely help his cause.

All in all, Hardin seems to be in great shape heading into the second half of his senior season from what we can tell. His team is winning at a pretty solid rate, he’s done a solid job addressing many of the concerns scouts had about him, and he’s producing very well in the areas he needs to most. Considering the lack of true centers in the NBA, especially those who can be considered outstanding athletes, Hardin should find himself in pretty high demand come draft day if he can keep it up. He’ll be under the microscope in this very difficult Pac-10 schedule, so making the NCAA tournament and continuing to play well will be imperative for him.
4949
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5/26/2008  1:52 PM
Posted by Ira:

One guy who isn't talked about very much is Devon Hardin. The guy is a bull on the boards and plays strong d as well. If we do trade Lee, Hardin could play either the 4 or 5. He'd give us the kind of inside toughness that we haven't seen since we traded Kurt Thomas. Here's Givony's write-up on Hardin.


And it's no wonder. He's not even ranked in the top 30.
I'll never trust this' team again.
Ira
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5/26/2008  1:55 PM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by Ira:

One guy who isn't talked about very much is Devon Hardin. The guy is a bull on the boards and plays strong d as well. If we do trade Lee, Hardin could play either the 4 or 5. He'd give us the kind of inside toughness that we haven't seen since we traded Kurt Thomas. Here's Givony's write-up on Hardin.


And it's no wonder. He's not even ranked in the top 30.

Neither was David Lee.

4949
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5/26/2008  3:14 PM
Posted by Ira:
Posted by 4949:
Posted by Ira:

One guy who isn't talked about very much is Devon Hardin. The guy is a bull on the boards and plays strong d as well. If we do trade Lee, Hardin could play either the 4 or 5. He'd give us the kind of inside toughness that we haven't seen since we traded Kurt Thomas. Here's Givony's write-up on Hardin.


And it's no wonder. He's not even ranked in the top 30.

Neither was David Lee.

isiah took a chance and got lucky. Let's not do that anymore.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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5/26/2008  3:17 PM
Posted by Ira:
Posted by 4949:
Posted by Ira:

One guy who isn't talked about very much is Devon Hardin. The guy is a bull on the boards and plays strong d as well. If we do trade Lee, Hardin could play either the 4 or 5. He'd give us the kind of inside toughness that we haven't seen since we traded Kurt Thomas. Here's Givony's write-up on Hardin.


And it's no wonder. He's not even ranked in the top 30.

Neither was David Lee.

Wait a minute! He got drafted 30th, so what are you talking about? That's within the top 30.
I'll never trust this' team again.
BRIGGS
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5/26/2008  3:25 PM
Posted by Ira:

One guy who isn't talked about very much is Devon Hardin. The guy is a bull on the boards and plays strong d as well. If we do trade Lee, Hardin could play either the 4 or 5. He'd give us the kind of inside toughness that we haven't seen since we traded Kurt Thomas. Here's Givony's write-up on Hardin.

It’s been almost a full year since the last time we saw Devon Hardin in real game action. 12 games into his junior season, Hardin broke his foot, being forced to sit out the rest of the season for Cal, but still allowing him to test the waters of the NBA draft. He supposedly had a guarantee in place from the Detroit Pistons at the end of the 1st round, but decided to return to Cal regardless, in order to get his degree and move himself further up the draft.

So far, Hardin looks a better prospect than the one we evaluated last season. He’s added quite a bit of strength to his frame, making him even more imposing physically, if that was at all possible. He’s now listed at a sculpted 250 pounds, up from 235 a year ago, and looks every bit the part of NBA center, with a massive wingspan and terrific athletic ability.

Offensively, Hardin looks better than we remember him as well. He’s finishing much better around the rim, going up and taking contact better, not rushing his shots as much as he did in the past, understanding his limitations more willingly, and doing a better job establishing position in the post. His free throw attempts are up considerably (8 per 40 minutes, compared with 5.5 last year), as is his field goal percentage (from 48% to 54%), all because of the reasons described above. Hardin is knocking down his right-handed jump-hook somewhat regularly with range out to about 8 feet, as well as his turnaround jumper, and is looking incredibly active hitting the offensive glass as well, where he can get his team a couple of easy baskets every game by just utilizing his outstanding physical tools to his advantage. When he finishes, the entire arena feels it, and that’s exactly what you want to see out of a player this size. We had concerns in the past about the tentative, uninspired manner in which he conducted himself on the court at times, but these are slowly starting to dry up the more we’re evaluating him these days. He doesn’t always make his presence felt offensively the way one might hope, but it’s no longer because of a lack of effort on his part.

That’s not to say that Hardin is any kind of offensive juggernaut. Far from it, actually. He’s not the type of player you throw the ball to and expect to be able to create offense for himself, as his footwork is noticeably unpolished and he’s fairly limited outside of a few feet around the hoop. He’s somewhat mechanical with his post-moves, and really struggles when forced to finish with his left hand.

This year, Cal seems to be using their center in a role that more closely resembles the one he would play in the NBA. Hardin’s usage is down from 15.4% of his team’s possessions to 12.2%, but he’s doing a much better job with the possessions he is given, improving his points per possession from 1.01 to 1.17. His assist to turnover ratio up is by 150%, which a very encouraging sign for a player like him.

Defensively, Hardin looks excellent at times, but could still make some small adjustments that could make him even more dangerous on this end. He did an excellent job in a game against Michael Beasley by the way when the two were matched up, swatting his shot a number of times (even twice on the perimeter), and not giving him many opportunities at all to score inside the paint. Hardin’s combination of size, length, strength and athleticism is virtually unrivaled at the collegiate level, and allows him to be quite an effective threat challenging shots around the rim. He also has quick enough feet to accurately hedge a pick and roll and recover in ample time, which is very rare from a player his size. His lateral quickness also comes in handy in the post, where he can step in and take a charge, which he looks quite willing to do. Hardin is fouling at a much lower rate than he did in years past (3.3 per 40 minutes this year, compared with 4.9 last year and 5.2 the year before). He’ll still bite on the occasional pump-fake, and will at times get called for a foolish foul far away from the basket, but he’s obviously making solid progress in this area, which is very encouraging. His 2.6 blocks per 40 minutes pace adjusted is certainly solid, but still only ranks him 33rd amongst draft prospects in that category.

To continue to establish his value in the draft as a potential defensive anchor, Hardin must do a better job closing out on his man in the post. He gives up too much space here at times, letting his matchups get deep position in hopes that he’ll be able to outquick them going up for the block when the shot finally goes up. He got scored on quite a bit by players like Kevin Love and Luke Nevill for this reason, from what we saw. We’d also like to see him do a better job protecting his basket making rotations to stop slashers on their way to the rim.

Another encouraging sign we’re seeing has to do with Hardin’s rebounding ability. His 14.9 rebounds per 40 minutes pace adjusted ranks him 4th amongst all draft prospects in that category, and certainly is an important stat considering what his likely role will be at the next level. His hands look better, as does his timing and aggressiveness—which will surely help his cause.

All in all, Hardin seems to be in great shape heading into the second half of his senior season from what we can tell. His team is winning at a pretty solid rate, he’s done a solid job addressing many of the concerns scouts had about him, and he’s producing very well in the areas he needs to most. Considering the lack of true centers in the NBA, especially those who can be considered outstanding athletes, Hardin should find himself in pretty high demand come draft day if he can keep it up. He’ll be under the microscope in this very difficult Pac-10 schedule, so making the NCAA tournament and continuing to play well will be imperative for him.

Apparently Detroit offered to draft him 27 last year with a rpomise and he decided to go back to school. There is no doubt about it--there are some really good late first early to mid 2nd rounders this year--I think more than 1 team will get a steal. Thats why giving the 2nd rounder for nothing ws stupid. Its easy to ah so what--but yeah so what if we executed a strong pick?
RIP Crushalot😞
codeunknown
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5/26/2008  3:30 PM
I'm not sure if picks are still being handed out at the Phoenix flea market but I wouldn't be surprised if we could get the #15 for cash.

If we get very lucky, take Mayo at #6 and Westbrook at #15 and call it a backcourt.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
4949
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5/26/2008  4:32 PM
mayo and westbrook sound interesting together. Hmmmmm. I just don't trust mayo.

I'll never trust this' team again.
Ira
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5/26/2008  5:33 PM
Posted by codeunknown:

I'm not sure if picks are still being handed out at the Phoenix flea market but I wouldn't be surprised if we could get the #15 for cash.

If we get very lucky, take Mayo at #6 and Westbrook at #15 and call it a backcourt.

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5/26/2008  5:35 PM
Alexis Ajinca is another big man prospect, but I don't know anything about him, except that he's athletic and french.
A good big man is going to fall in this draft.

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