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It's the Brick and Mortar teams that always win the titles
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BRIGGS
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5/19/2008  10:37 PM
Teams that have the ability to just stop the opponent offensively and have adequate fire power to win. It's every year--these teams that do play high tempo--maybe some day it will be their time but the guys winning the rings. These other styles look fancy and generate excitement but so far it hasnt been a recipe to win the whole gig.
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CrushAlot
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5/19/2008  10:41 PM
You are right. That is one of the many reasons why the D'Antoni hiring is very odd.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
fishmike
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5/20/2008  7:54 AM
its not brick and mortar. Its Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Jordan, Hakeem and Isiah. The only team to win a title in the last 20 years that didnt have one of those six guys was Larry Brown's Pistons, and they were both uptempo and defensive monsters.

You dont just say your goal is to win an NBA title and we are going to build such and such a type of team to do it. If you dont have whats history shows is arguably the best player in the NBA you dont win a title.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Panos
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5/20/2008  7:58 AM
Posted by fishmike:

its not brick and mortar. Its Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Jordan, Hakeem and Isiah. The only team to win a title in the last 20 years that didnt have one of those six guys was Larry Brown's Pistons, and they were both uptempo and defensive monsters.

You dont just say your goal is to win an NBA title and we are going to build such and such a type of team to do it. If you dont have whats history shows is arguably the best player in the NBA you dont win a title.

Steve Nash won MVP twice and hasn't come close to a title.
crzymdups
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5/20/2008  8:04 AM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by fishmike:

its not brick and mortar. Its Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Jordan, Hakeem and Isiah. The only team to win a title in the last 20 years that didnt have one of those six guys was Larry Brown's Pistons, and they were both uptempo and defensive monsters.

You dont just say your goal is to win an NBA title and we are going to build such and such a type of team to do it. If you dont have whats history shows is arguably the best player in the NBA you dont win a title.

Steve Nash won MVP twice and hasn't come close to a title.

winning an MVP and being a game changing superstar on both ends of the floor are not the same thing.

¿ △ ?
fishmike
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5/20/2008  8:27 AM
doesnt matter, but the Nash comment only strengthens my point. Lots of great players never won titles as stars with their teams. All those Stockton Malone teams, Ewing, Reggie, Payton, Dirk, Iverson, Sweetney, etc

I think history proves that NBA titles are only won by a handful of players, and they arent exactly the kind of players you can go out and get.

Maybe the Celtics show us something different this year, but are they good enough to get past the Pistons even?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Uptown
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5/20/2008  8:49 AM
Posted by CrushAlot:

You are right. That is one of the many reasons why the D'Antoni hiring is very odd.

Yeah, Mark Jackson would have put us on the path to the championship ring

As Fish said, its the elite players that are winning all the rings. Jordan, Duncan, Hakeem, Shaq, etc, have been the best players in the league at one point, particularly when they won the ring.
Nalod
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5/20/2008  8:58 AM
D'antoni if coached to his teams strenghts.

If he was a defensive Guru would that team have succeeded better?

Give the guy a chance.

This team in its formation is not gonna win deep in the playoffs.

Let him get some winning under his belt and some value on this squad, with some expirings and a few trades and then we can see the vision.

This team has talent, but is not a team.

Pops old "Masters" of the game just had the experience to reach deep down and get it done. The Hornets have a nice future, but Pop also out coached Byron Scott.
fishmike
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5/20/2008  9:09 AM
Posted by Uptown:
Posted by CrushAlot:

You are right. That is one of the many reasons why the D'Antoni hiring is very odd.

Yeah, Mark Jackson would have put us on the path to the championship ring

As Fish said, its the elite players that are winning all the rings. Jordan, Duncan, Hakeem, Shaq, etc, have been the best players in the league at one point, particularly when they won the ring.
yes.. on that note the ONE coach who won a title without the benefit of a superstar player won 23 games here, so thats a moot point.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
arkrud
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5/20/2008  9:24 AM
Players are secondary; even superstars.
Coaching and classy organization is what needed to win it all and not by fluke but consistently year after year.
How many coaches win the titles? Not too many. How many teams were on top? Counted.
You can change the cast but producers and directors are making the movies.
Knicks of now are high budget flop which never worked. It’s time to close the shop and reset.



"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
King1
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5/20/2008  9:56 AM
What these teams have is role players that dont need shots. The one guy on this team you have as a role player is the one every one wants to trade
bitty41
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5/20/2008  10:00 AM
Posted by King1:

What these teams have is role players that dont need shots. The one guy on this team you have as a role player is the one every one wants to trade

Yes everyone needs a David Lee to win a title.
Nalod
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5/20/2008  10:01 AM
Posted by arkrud:

Players are secondary; even superstars.
Coaching and classy organization is what needed to win it all and not by fluke but consistently year after year.
How many coaches win the titles? Not too many. How many teams were on top? Counted.
You can change the cast but producers and directors are making the movies.
Knicks of now are high budget flop which never worked. It’s time to close the shop and reset.


A winning culture that you move pieces in and out. Spurs were lucky to tank and have Duncan whom supplimented David Robinson in time.

ALso allowing a guy like Parker and Bowen to develop was important. Patience!!!!!

Good scouting to draft Obi Won Ginobli was massive!

Bring in Role players like Finley and barry to compliment.

They are a great model of excellence the last 10 years!

They are worthy champions.
fishmike
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5/20/2008  10:04 AM
role players, organizations, please... role players got that name in the first place by playing next to stars. Is there a better run org than Dallas? Cuban has done everything, made great moves, brought in top level talent, had great coaches... why hasnt he won a title? Cause Dirk is Dirk and not MJ.

If Cle wins a title its not because they are a great org, its cause they drafted Lebron #1 instead of Bargani, KMart, Bogut, Michael Olowokandi or Joe Smith.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bippity10
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5/20/2008  10:30 AM
Defense is important, and all title winners play some D. But Fish is 100% right. Superstars win the titles. Coaches are the most overrated aspect of basketball. Find a superstar to build around and you are an instant title contender(see Orlando in 2 years)
I just hope that people will like me
tkf
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5/20/2008  10:32 AM
Posted by fishmike:

role players, organizations, please... role players got that name in the first place by playing next to stars. Is there a better run org than Dallas? Cuban has done everything, made great moves, brought in top level talent, had great coaches... why hasnt he won a title? Cause Dirk is Dirk and not MJ.

If Cle wins a title its not because they are a great org, its cause they drafted Lebron #1 instead of Bargani, KMart, Bogut, Michael Olowokandi or Joe Smith.


And that is why we desperately need Derrick rose or even Beasley..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Ira
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5/20/2008  10:32 AM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by fishmike:

its not brick and mortar. Its Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Jordan, Hakeem and Isiah. The only team to win a title in the last 20 years that didnt have one of those six guys was Larry Brown's Pistons, and they were both uptempo and defensive monsters.

You dont just say your goal is to win an NBA title and we are going to build such and such a type of team to do it. If you dont have whats history shows is arguably the best player in the NBA you dont win a title.

Steve Nash won MVP twice and hasn't come close to a title.

He came very close last year.
arkrud
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5/20/2008  11:05 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

Defense is important, and all title winners play some D. But Fish is 100% right. Superstars win the titles. Coaches are the most overrated aspect of basketball. Find a superstar to build around and you are an instant title contender(see Orlando in 2 years)

So we have 4 overrated guys - Pop, Riles, Brown, and Zen-master.
Really overrated...
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
fishmike
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5/20/2008  11:52 AM
Posted by arkrud:
Posted by Bippity10:

Defense is important, and all title winners play some D. But Fish is 100% right. Superstars win the titles. Coaches are the most overrated aspect of basketball. Find a superstar to build around and you are an instant title contender(see Orlando in 2 years)

So we have 4 overrated guys - Pop, Riles, Brown, and Zen-master.
Really overrated...
point is Pop had Duncan, Phil had Mike/Shaq/Kobe and Riles didnt win with Ewing despite having the talent to do so. Brown is still the best coach IMO because of what he accomplised without a star player, but he didnt look so good here did he.

If your building a team, who do you want... one of those guys or a coach like Mark Jackson to go w/ Lebron, Dwight or CP3?

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
JohnWallace44
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5/20/2008  11:55 AM
Wait, so Curry and Z-Bo aren't going to win us a championship?

Teams with great BASKETBALL PLAYERS are going to win a great deal of games.

A basketball player would be someone who excels at all facets of the game, not just one or two.

Jordan, Hakeem, Duncan, Shaq, Isiah, they were great at everything, not just defense.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
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It's the Brick and Mortar teams that always win the titles
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