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We've got nut-busting and angry hordes roaming the forums....
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Cosmic
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5/11/2008  6:29 PM
....do we have a town cryer to settle the dust?

Walsh and DAntoni are professional basketball minds and well respected in the NBA.

The Knicks roster is a disasterous mess locked into long term deals.

Regardless of the direction Walsh, DAntoni, and the eventual GM choose to take the roster and team - it's going to take time.

******************************
Here's my feeling:

Isiah was a fool who controlled everything.

Walsh is a professional who has already been quoted as telling DAntoni he will do whatever he can to get the players in here needed for success.

I don't know why (and some others on other forums) are in an uproar over Walsh/DAntoni only weeks into their tenures simply speculating that it's all going to go to ****.

I don't know why some are all elated thinking "see, got our coach, core is awesome, here comes 60 wins and the chip in 09! haters fall back!"

Why not give it some time first?

*********************************

For the "haters" I'm not talking about this December saying "SEE, we're 7 games under .500, same roster is out there, FIYAH DONNIE *clap* *clap* *clap-clap-clap*."

No need for rush to judgement. It's going to take a long time to fix this so there's no reason to start destroying those who just got the job before they've even done anything.........

If come midway through the 09-10 season the team is horrendous and there's no end in sight for fixing the roster? Then bitch......until then, they deserve at LEAST those 18 months to try to turn the ship around.

*************************

For the "lovers" If come that same time frame we're stating to light other teams up? Then squeal with glee. Don't expect it next season though in fact even if we do go the route of "fix it now" don't expect to be much more than in the Hawks' shoes come April of 09 or even 10.

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Knick forums are an emotional mess LOL. Pharmacists must be doing well this week. Viagra and Prozac flying off the shelves to hordes of people wearing Orange and Blue.

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CrushAlot
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5/11/2008  6:45 PM
I think there is an obvious reason why some people are upset. Nothing has changed other than Isiah has a different position in the organization. In hiring D'Antoni the team is taking a different direction than rebuilding. This has been the same direction they have taken for the last 4.5 years. In hiring D'Antoni the team has gotten the big name that doesn't fit with the team again. If you include this with keeping Thomas employed and not changing the media poliocy it is very apparent that Dolan is playing a big role in all basketball decisions being made. Players cannot be taught athleticism, and smarts. Players can be taught defense. The current roster needs a teacher and motivator. They have had a guy already who holds twenty minute practices. I also think by committing to D'Antoni Walsh has put himself in a compromised position in regards to making moves with the roster. There are alot of flawed but talented players on the Knicks who are at their lowest value right now. Some these guys do not fit at all with D'Antoni so Walsh will have to give them away. I also think that Walsh knows how to fix the Knicks the right way but again had his hand forced in hiring D'Antoni. Dolan is the fool of the league. He bailed out Phoenix and helped Chicago by not taking one of the canidates who would have been successful in a rebuild with the Knicks.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Cosmic
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5/11/2008  6:54 PM
Posted by CrushAlot:

I think there is an obvious reason why some people are upset. Nothing has changed other than Isiah has a different position in the organization. In hiring D'Antoni the team is taking a different direction than rebuilding. This has been the same direction they have taken for the last 4.5 years. In hiring D'Antoni the team has gotten the big name that doesn't fit with the team again. If you include this with keeping Thomas employed and not changing the media poliocy it is very apparent that Dolan is playing a big role in all basketball decisions being made. Players cannot be taught athleticism, and smarts. Players can be taught defense. The current roster needs a teacher and motivator. They have had a guy already who holds twenty minute practices. I also think by committing to D'Antoni Walsh has put himself in a compromised position in regards to making moves with the roster. There are alot of flawed but talented players on the Knicks who are at their lowest value right now. Some these guys do not fit at all with D'Antoni so Walsh will have to give them away. I also think that Walsh knows how to fix the Knicks the right way but again had his hand forced in hiring D'Antoni. Dolan is the fool of the league. He bailed out Phoenix and helped Chicago by not taking one of the canidates who would have been successful in a rebuild with the Knicks.

Well, I too wanted a rebuilding which included a tear down, and I believe hiring DAntoni largely means that we aren't going that route.

Yet, Walsh has said he will try to improve the team now, he said that before he hired mike, yet Walsh also said he is committed to get the team cap flexibility by June 2010 and would not make a trade that would jepardize that. Nobody really stays true to their word as things evolve but he seemed sincere.

Dolan got up during Walshs intro and said that the media policy would be Walsh's to change - so I don't know why people have said the media policy is still the same. It's going to change. We have a whole summer where Walsh will spend time changing things so I don't think we should rush to judge just a few weeks into this that he hasn't or won't do so.

Dolan also said that Walsh had autonomy. There's no Mills looking over his shoulder. He's free to operate as he please. Like any corporation you do have to run a final decision by your boss so it's natural that Dolan will of course be involved in some way. Isiah had free reign so I don't see why Walsh won't. I'm not worried about Dolan at all. Again, as an owner, it's his choice to tell the incoming hired employees what he wants to see and ask them to do it. So there's not much you can do with that but Dolan did come across as a guy that answered those questions and was willing to change how he operated.

Again, not everything is going to change over night, there's a lot of work to be done and some things are more important than others. It will take time before we see the effects of any changes as well. That's kind of the whole basis of my topic is that there's a huge knee-jerk on both sides of the Knick fan base and I don't understand why when you look at the situation.

There will be no overnight success nor any overnight failure. This won't be the same regime as Layden nor Isiah it will take it's own course. It will take time for us to see what that course will eventually be - ESPECIALLY - given that it's a two-part course.

1. Try to improve in the short term, yet, not jepardize the June 2010 desire to be cap flexible.
2. Eventually be a contending team (which is of course not going to happen until starting with the 2010-2011 season at the earliest).

So...give it time...the elated, the angry, the fence sitters like myself, give it time. You're not going to see anything substantial for quite some time no matter who was hired and no matter the direction they would have taken the team

A minimum of 18 months....we're just too far locked into Isiah's disaster to see any REAL results - or at the very least a recognizable future plan unfolding - for 18 months.

Which is why I'm just going to sit on the fence and watch for quite some time before trying to hitch a ride on either band wagon that's surfaced in the past few hours.

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Uptown
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5/11/2008  6:56 PM
Posted by CrushAlot:

I think there is an obvious reason why some people are upset. Nothing has changed other than Isiah has a different position in the organization. In hiring D'Antoni the team is taking a different direction than rebuilding. This has been the same direction they have taken for the last 4.5 years. In hiring D'Antoni the team has gotten the big name that doesn't fit with the team again. If you include this with keeping Thomas employed and not changing the media poliocy it is very apparent that Dolan is playing a big role in all basketball decisions being made. Players cannot be taught athleticism, and smarts. Players can be taught defense. The current roster needs a teacher and motivator. They have had a guy already who holds twenty minute practices. I also think by committing to D'Antoni Walsh has put himself in a compromised position in regards to making moves with the roster. There are alot of flawed but talented players on the Knicks who are at their lowest value right now. Some these guys do not fit at all with D'Antoni so Walsh will have to give them away. I also think that Walsh knows how to fix the Knicks the right way but again had his hand forced in hiring D'Antoni. Dolan is the fool of the league. He bailed out Phoenix and helped Chicago by not taking one of the canidates who would have been successful in a rebuild with the Knicks.


For crying out loud...why does hiring D'Antoni mean we can't rebuild? Walsh said in his press conference that he plans on getting this team at or below the cap by 2010. So far, he hasn't made any player/personel moves to jeapordize that statement.

He just hired the best coach on the open market who averaged 58 wins over the past 4 years and people on this board is up in arms. If we hire a no-name, does that automatically signal rebuild? Its been stated that Walsh will move players out and get players in that fits D'Antoni's system. I repeat a System. We haven't had a system or identity on ths team since Vn Gundy left. How about we let this play out.
Cosmic
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5/11/2008  6:57 PM
Also with Dolan....remember that Stern has pushed the Knicks the past few months to make changes and that Dolan has recently responded telling Stern he would do whatever it took to improve the team.

Walsh hires DAntoni and tells him he will do whatever he can to get the players needed to make this work.

So in that, it's just another couple of reasons for a little optimism that this will be a different regime.

Again, we're so locked into Isiah's mess, there will be no miracle here, so there's no reason to go nuts on either side of the spectrum.

This fan base is largely lacking patience in a situation that all the logic in the world will tell you patience is exactly what you need to have.

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Vmart
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5/11/2008  6:59 PM
I don't think there is a person here that think the Knicks are going to win 60 games next year or the next. Cosmic your making the people who favor this deal seem like idiots or something. There isn't one person here who favored the deal who isn't committed to give the Knicks ample amout of time to turn this mess around.

You are mistaking the people who favor the deal, I for one know that this team is going to take time to turn around and it might be a gradual improvement from year to year. Just having the idea that Walsh is going to try and get the players necessary to help his coach succeed is enough reason to be favoring this deal.
nyk4ever
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5/11/2008  6:59 PM
Posted by Uptown:

For crying out loud...why does hiring D'Antoni mean we can't rebuild? Walsh said in his press conference that he plans on getting this team at or below the cap by 2010. So far, he hasn't made any player/personel moves to jeapordize that statement.

He just hired the best coach on the open market who averaged 58 wins over the past 4 years and people on this board is up in arms. If we hire a no-name, does that automatically signal rebuild? Its been stated that Walsh will move players out and get players in that fits D'Antoni's system. I repeat a System. We haven't had a system or identity on ths team since Vn Gundy left. How about we let this play out.

Well put Uptown. Very well put.

I'm excited for whats to come with the Knicks... this coming from the guy who has been one of the most angry fans since Isiah was hired.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
4949
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5/11/2008  7:00 PM
Posted by Cosmic:

....do we have a town cryer to settle the dust?

I tried my 'All of you anti D'Antoni people better get this through your heads' thread, but it got locked out.
I'll never trust this' team again.
BasketballJones
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5/11/2008  7:04 PM
I think hating has become a habit for many of us. It will take some time for the management to prove that they have in fact established a new, healthier direction for this franchise.



[Edited by - basketballjones on 05-11-2008 19:05]
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4949
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5/11/2008  7:04 PM
Posted by CrushAlot:

I think there is an obvious reason why some people are upset. Nothing has changed other than Isiah has a different position in the organization. In hiring D'Antoni the team is taking a different direction than rebuilding. This has been the same direction they have taken for the last 4.5 years. In hiring D'Antoni the team has gotten the big name that doesn't fit with the team again. If you include this with keeping Thomas employed and not changing the media poliocy it is very apparent that Dolan is playing a big role in all basketball decisions being made. Players cannot be taught athleticism, and smarts. Players can be taught defense. The current roster needs a teacher and motivator. They have had a guy already who holds twenty minute practices. I also think by committing to D'Antoni Walsh has put himself in a compromised position in regards to making moves with the roster. There are alot of flawed but talented players on the Knicks who are at their lowest value right now. Some these guys do not fit at all with D'Antoni so Walsh will have to give them away. I also think that Walsh knows how to fix the Knicks the right way but again had his hand forced in hiring D'Antoni. Dolan is the fool of the league. He bailed out Phoenix and helped Chicago by not taking one of the canidates who would have been successful in a rebuild with the Knicks.

you wouldn't happen to mean ahhhhhhhhhh..............jax?

Totally makes no sense what your saying. It's an empty complaint. Jealousy running rampant around here.

The sky is falling, the sky is falling!
I'll never trust this' team again.
PhilinLA
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5/11/2008  7:06 PM
What is Isiah's new position in the organization? I'm looking for an exact title and people he's the boss of.

Anyone who doesn't see D'Antoni's hiring as a total repudiation of every stupid trade Isiah made, isn't seening things clearly. He is the anti-Zeke, and the anti-Zach, and the anti-Rose (Roses, actually, and he's proved that already), the anti-Steph (and he's proved that already) and the anti-MLE's who can't shoot guy.

Isiah doesn't fit here no matter how anyone who wanted revenge more than castration for him tries to envision it.

Things are very different now than they were when the season ended.
http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
4949
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5/11/2008  7:07 PM
I'm totally baffled by this. Here we get rid of one of the dumbest people the Knicks have ever had, avoided another clueless clutz and just picked up a very, very successful coach and all you clowns have to do is complain about it? My God! What's it gonna take?
I'll never trust this' team again.
Nalod
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5/11/2008  10:04 PM
In a matter of weeks Dolan has doled out major coin to bring in two excellent minds with experience and a history of success.

I expect MikeD to work with what he got and they will weed out what they can.

What else can one expect.

Walsh played this close to the vest and was patient.

Us fans don't know all whats best.

I am not starillusioned to think great things will happen over nite.

But Isiah is in the basement with the gimp.

In fact, Isiah is the Gimp.
4949
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5/11/2008  10:06 PM
I hear isiah is gonna be a beat writer for dolan's new newspaper toy company.
I'll never trust this' team again.
TMS
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5/11/2008  10:06 PM
haters & lovers, now it's nut busters & nut huggers... gotta love it.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
4949
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5/11/2008  10:08 PM
Posted by TMS:

haters & lovers, now it's nut busters & nut huggers... gotta love it.

Why not? They been busting our nuts for the last several years.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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5/11/2008  10:10 PM
Ta-Daaaaaaa!!!!!! My 6,000 hit on these boards! This means I been here too long.
I'll never trust this' team again.
TrueBlue
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5/11/2008  10:46 PM
Cosmic really is doin some front runnin LOL!
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Cosmic
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5/13/2008  10:18 AM
Posted by Vmart:

I don't think there is a person here that think the Knicks are going to win 60 games next year or the next. Cosmic your making the people who favor this deal seem like idiots or something. There isn't one person here who favored the deal who isn't committed to give the Knicks ample amout of time to turn this mess around.

You are mistaking the people who favor the deal, I for one know that this team is going to take time to turn around and it might be a gradual improvement from year to year. Just having the idea that Walsh is going to try and get the players necessary to help his coach succeed is enough reason to be favoring this deal.

Did you read my entire post? Nowhere did I say people are idiots for favoring the DAntoni hire. Nowhere. The gist of the post was this: There's a lot of over-reactions going on both sides of the fence. For the record, I'm simply on the fence, I will wait for Walsh/DAntoni to prove to me they were good hires before REALLY bothering to look at things.

There are still people that are hating on this team and any move they make giving it zero chance right from the start. I don't know, maybe it makes them feel good just to shyt all over it for no reason other than...to just shyt all over it. There are, like it or not, people who still think this is a very good team and it just needs the right coach and a tweak or two and these people believe the team WILL be a 50+ win team just like that. Then there are middle of the road optimists/pessimists who are more than likely just part way into the season ready to give up on it all if by late December we're still a sub .500 team which is of course likely.

To all of these people, the gist of this topic was to say, regardless of your stance from most negative to most positive, take a break from it and be prepared to give it up to 18 months time BEFORE you go on these highly negative or positive trips...or start calling for heads to roll. The reason being: Isiah screwed us up real good and it will probably take a minimum of 18 months, barring some quick lucky changes that nobody in their right mind would expect to fall into our laps, before not only the team plays any good but for the "plan" to start taking shape in a concrete manner where everyone can see where it's heading.


So, I don't really know why you interpreted my topic starting post as a "LOL anyone who likes the DAntoni hire are IDIOTS!" (or whatever) statement. It's not. It's the opposite entirely. It's just an appeal to all to have...... PATIENCE.... of which non-knee-jerk reactions (quick to judge...overly positive or negative) should not be a part of.



Personally I have no idea where Walsh or DAntoni will lead us. As far as I'm concerned it's anywhere from a continued mistake-laden path that we've witnessed over 8 years of recycling contracts to try to keep adding to the present core of players ------ to miraculously being able to do so and have success ------- to presenting us an entirely different team as far as 3 years from now that contends. I have no idea, nobody does, and that's really the root of the topic.



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djsunyc
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5/13/2008  10:22 AM
as long as something is happening with my nuts, it's all good...
We've got nut-busting and angry hordes roaming the forums....

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