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Four keys to change for the better THIS SUMMER.
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Cosmic
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4/12/2008  8:52 PM
1. Fire Isiah - or - if Dolan demands he earn his cash - hide him deep in the ORG where he can't do anything and is never seen.
2. Trade Zach. I don't care how it's done as long as it reverses the stupid trade. Give us a 2010 expiring and a "frye". Fine by me.
3. Reinstall Marbury as Starbury and let him play the season out. If you make him top dog again he will give you a good season.
4. Strip Crawful of his Top Gun role and return him back into a SUPPORT player.


You do these four things you've got a 38-41 win team and a playoff berth next season.


There's of course a lot more still wrong with the team but those four keys are huge IMO and I see no reason why they CANT be done this summer.
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TrueBlue
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4/12/2008  9:08 PM
Posted by Cosmic:

1. Fire Isiah - or - if Dolan demands he earn his cash - hide him deep in the ORG where he can't do anything and is never seen.
2. Trade Zach. I don't care how it's done as long as it reverses the stupid trade. Give us a 2010 expiring and a "frye". Fine by me.
3. Reinstall Marbury as Starbury and let him play the season out. If you make him top dog again he will give you a good season.
4. Strip Crawful of his Top Gun role and return him back into a SUPPORT player.


You do these four things you've got a 38-41 win team and a playoff berth next season.


There's of course a lot more still wrong with the team but those four keys are huge IMO and I see no reason why they CANT be done this summer.


Any plan that doesn't include Curry packing his bags simply isn't all that good of a plan.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
BRIGGS
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4/12/2008  9:12 PM
Posted by Cosmic:

1. Fire Isiah - or - if Dolan demands he earn his cash - hide him deep in the ORG where he can't do anything and is never seen.
2. Trade Zach. I don't care how it's done as long as it reverses the stupid trade. Give us a 2010 expiring and a "frye". Fine by me.
3. Reinstall Marbury as Starbury and let him play the season out. If you make him top dog again he will give you a good season.
4. Strip Crawful of his Top Gun role and return him back into a SUPPORT player.


You do these four things you've got a 38-41 win team and a playoff berth next season.


There's of course a lot more still wrong with the team but those four keys are huge IMO and I see no reason why they CANT be done this summer.

OK the same shtty club -Zach= + 18 wins. Ok.
RIP Crushalot😞
TMS
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4/12/2008  9:36 PM
Posted by Cosmic:

1. Fire Isiah - or - if Dolan demands he earn his cash - hide him deep in the ORG where he can't do anything and is never seen.
2. Trade Zach. I don't care how it's done as long as it reverses the stupid trade. Give us a 2010 expiring and a "frye". Fine by me.
3. Reinstall Marbury as Starbury and let him play the season out. If you make him top dog again he will give you a good season.
4. Strip Crawful of his Top Gun role and return him back into a SUPPORT player.


You do these four things you've got a 38-41 win team and a playoff berth next season.


There's of course a lot more still wrong with the team but those four keys are huge IMO and I see no reason why they CANT be done this summer.

i'd rather they tanked another season & get another top lottery pick to build with... this team is still far away from being a contender untill we get the right pieces in place... the season to go all out to make the playoffs is after next season since we don't own our '10 pick.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bonn1997
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4/12/2008  9:58 PM
Posted by Cosmic:

1. Fire Isiah - or - if Dolan demands he earn his cash - hide him deep in the ORG where he can't do anything and is never seen.
2. Trade Zach. I don't care how it's done as long as it reverses the stupid trade. Give us a 2010 expiring and a "frye". Fine by me.
3. Reinstall Marbury as Starbury and let him play the season out. If you make him top dog again he will give you a good season.
4. Strip Crawful of his Top Gun role and return him back into a SUPPORT player.


You do these four things you've got a 38-41 win team and a playoff berth next season.


There's of course a lot more still wrong with the team but those four keys are huge IMO and I see no reason why they CANT be done this summer.

1-I agree
2-Zach is untradeable
3-Why? Marbury's not gonna help the Knicks get anywhere meaningful. I'd rather use his contract to take back a slightly longer deal and get a sweetener in return.
4-Strip Crawford of his place on this roster.

And TB is right about the need to get rid of Eddy.
We need to buy out out as many of the terrible veterans as Dolan will allow us to also, starting with Jerome.
SlimPack
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4/12/2008  10:04 PM
I think I'd rather trade Curry than Zach, if I had to chose one.
Vmart
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4/12/2008  10:05 PM
Posted by Cosmic:

1. Fire Isiah - or - if Dolan demands he earn his cash - hide him deep in the ORG where he can't do anything and is never seen.
2. Trade Zach. I don't care how it's done as long as it reverses the stupid trade. Give us a 2010 expiring and a "frye". Fine by me.
3. Reinstall Marbury as Starbury and let him play the season out. If you make him top dog again he will give you a good season.
4. Strip Crawful of his Top Gun role and return him back into a SUPPORT player.


You do these four things you've got a 38-41 win team and a playoff berth next season.


There's of course a lot more still wrong with the team but those four keys are huge IMO and I see no reason why they CANT be done this summer.
Adding Marbury back does nothing for the NYK future. I agree with getting rid of Isiah but Marbury should go with him buy him out and send him on his way to whereever. Crawford should be traded don't let his number fool you he is a loser and always will be one until he is some role player on a great team then he becomes a winner by default. But you can't have success with Crawford being you top gun. The Knicks need a plan of action the plan should be to add a pg that will bring a nice team first attitude but I think you can get those in the later part of the draft even second round. I like the kid from Kansas to be a point guard for the Knicks. I would still take Beasley if the right ping pong ball landed. Rose I'm not a big fan of. But Beasley should be the man for the kNicks. Take Chandler and move him off to SG I think he will be good in that role athletic enough and has the all around skills to be an effective SG. Beasley will be a beast for the Knicks sort of like a Bernard King type guy to come to the KNicks. Curry needs to be moved bt if they can't then keep him and get a PF that will be a shot blocking presence someone who will protect Curry's weakness. Maybe a trade of Randolph for Kenyon Martin would be a good move he bring toughness and a past winning presence to the team.

Players that I want gone. Q-Rich,Jefferies, Crawford, Randolph, JJ.

New Look Knicks:

Mario Chalmers g
Chandler sg
Beasley sf
K-Mart pf
Curry c.

Bench:
Lee
Balkman
Morris
Collins
Nate
buddapaw
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4/12/2008  10:09 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Cosmic:

1. Fire Isiah - or - if Dolan demands he earn his cash - hide him deep in the ORG where he can't do anything and is never seen.
2. Trade Zach. I don't care how it's done as long as it reverses the stupid trade. Give us a 2010 expiring and a "frye". Fine by me.
3. Reinstall Marbury as Starbury and let him play the season out. If you make him top dog again he will give you a good season.
4. Strip Crawful of his Top Gun role and return him back into a SUPPORT player.


You do these four things you've got a 38-41 win team and a playoff berth next season.


There's of course a lot more still wrong with the team but those four keys are huge IMO and I see no reason why they CANT be done this summer.

i'd rather they tanked another season & get another top lottery pick to build with... this team is still far away from being a contender untill we get the right pieces in place... the season to go all out to make the playoffs is after next season since we don't own our '10 pick.

That only works if we have a draft pick I think next years belongs to Utah I think, thanks to the Starbury trade
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BigC
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4/12/2008  10:11 PM
5. Number 5 Should be bench Q and start Chandler. There is noway I can take another season with Stiff Long Stocking starting over talent like Chandler.
6. Trade Curry or get him to play well. There where games that Nate pull down more rebounds than him.
7. Find out what type of team this is. Are we a halfcourt feed the post team or a running up tempo team.



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TMS
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4/12/2008  10:16 PM
Posted by buddapaw:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Cosmic:

1. Fire Isiah - or - if Dolan demands he earn his cash - hide him deep in the ORG where he can't do anything and is never seen.
2. Trade Zach. I don't care how it's done as long as it reverses the stupid trade. Give us a 2010 expiring and a "frye". Fine by me.
3. Reinstall Marbury as Starbury and let him play the season out. If you make him top dog again he will give you a good season.
4. Strip Crawful of his Top Gun role and return him back into a SUPPORT player.


You do these four things you've got a 38-41 win team and a playoff berth next season.


There's of course a lot more still wrong with the team but those four keys are huge IMO and I see no reason why they CANT be done this summer.

i'd rather they tanked another season & get another top lottery pick to build with... this team is still far away from being a contender untill we get the right pieces in place... the season to go all out to make the playoffs is after next season since we don't own our '10 pick.

That only works if we have a draft pick I think next years belongs to Utah I think, thanks to the Starbury trade

no, that pick is protected next season, so if we land in the lottery the pick is ours to keep if we so choose... after that the pick is unprotected & goes to Utah automatically whether we make the playoffs or not... of course if we make the playoffs next season then we can give the pick to Utah & fulfill the terms of the Marbury trade, but i'd rather go for 1 more high lottery pick while we're in rebuilding mode & take our chances next season.
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Cosmic
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4/13/2008  12:51 AM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by Cosmic:

1. Fire Isiah - or - if Dolan demands he earn his cash - hide him deep in the ORG where he can't do anything and is never seen.
2. Trade Zach. I don't care how it's done as long as it reverses the stupid trade. Give us a 2010 expiring and a "frye". Fine by me.
3. Reinstall Marbury as Starbury and let him play the season out. If you make him top dog again he will give you a good season.
4. Strip Crawful of his Top Gun role and return him back into a SUPPORT player.


You do these four things you've got a 38-41 win team and a playoff berth next season.


There's of course a lot more still wrong with the team but those four keys are huge IMO and I see no reason why they CANT be done this summer.


Any plan that doesn't include Curry packing his bags simply isn't all that good of a plan.


Yes, but that's a secondary step.

First you trade Zach. Then you go back to feeding Eddy (lol). If you can get him back to 19/7 then you have a more tradeable player. Simple as that.



I didn't want to make a huge list of ideas - because lets face it what I want (or others want) and what is going to happen will be two entirely different things.

What I did want to do was list what I felt were four reasonable and achievable goals that could be accomplished this off-season to not only push us in the proper direction but also clean up the situation some in the short term.

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Cosmic
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4/13/2008  12:53 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:



OK the same shtty club -Zach= + 18 wins. Ok.

You don't seem to understand. You don't fix this mess overnight. You start with a few attainable goals to begin the process of change for the better.

This would lay the ground work for future change (such as moving out Curry) and in the mean time changes the atmosphere for the better.

If you're looking for some miraculous quick fix expecting to win 45+ games and be a playoff contender next year then you're thinking like Isiah - of who's thinking we know to be extremely unreasonable.

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Cosmic
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4/13/2008  1:03 AM
Posted by BigC:

5. Number 5 Should be bench Q and start Chandler. There is noway I can take another season with Stiff Long Stocking starting over talent like Chandler.
6. Trade Curry or get him to play well. There where games that Nate pull down more rebounds than him.
7. Find out what type of team this is. Are we a halfcourt feed the post team or a running up tempo team.



Yeah, QBrick...I've had it with the guy. Get your fat ass into shape, get healthy, and get your consistency back or just please GO AWAY.

As to Curry - I think if we trade Zach we go back to feeding Eddy (lol) and if we can get him back to 19/7 he WILL have trade value.


As to finding a team identity I have no idea anymore.... I'm not even sure which direction you'd want to go with whatever core you'd end up having in a year or two. That's one reason I want a full tear down but what I want and what will happen are of course 2 different things so I tried to come up with what I felt were four achievable and realistic goals this team could do this summer.


Posted by TMS:

i'd rather they tanked another season & get another top lottery pick to build with... this team is still far away from being a contender untill we get the right pieces in place... the season to go all out to make the playoffs is after next season since we don't own our '10 pick.


Well, we're unlikely to tank a season (and we did NOT tank this one either). While it might seem like a great idea to have a shot at a top 5 pick two consecutive seasons I just don't expect this club to do that - so I'm trying to not only list potential goals but ones that might fit in with what this club actually wants to do - and not just solely what I think or want them to do (clean house, stockpile picks, play kids, add vets a few years late, etc)

Posted by Bonn1997:


1-I agree
2-Zach is untradeable
3-Why? Marbury's not gonna help the Knicks get anywhere meaningful. I'd rather use his contract to take back a slightly longer deal and get a sweetener in return.
4-Strip Crawford of his place on this roster.

And TB is right about the need to get rid of Eddy.
We need to buy out out as many of the terrible veterans as Dolan will allow us to also, starting with Jerome.

I think Zach is tradeable. We were one of five or six teams that Portland talked to. So you find out who the other teams were and find out what was being offered. If it's 2010 contracts and a guy like Frye (or whatever rookie deal player) then you go for it.

Then that sets the stage to build up Curry back to a more tradeable player.

As to Jerome, Q, Jeffries --- well, neither make a lot of money and two come off in 2010. I'd just buy out Jerome as he's useless but who knows what they will do and in the meantime these guys aren't a huge detriment to the cap/roster situation.

I also agree about trading Crawford but given a lot of comments thrown out I doubt that occurs. So you maximize what the player can bring - and as much as I ride him I DO believe Crawford can be a helpful player in the proper strictly monitored role.

As to Marbury the point is this. I want his contract to expire. I doubt we buy him out. Walsh will try to give him a second chance. So again, instead of solely what I want versus what the team will look to do - I don't see the harm in returning Marbury's psyche back to the 0304 season. Here's the keys, go do what you do, and maybe we win those 38-41 games and make the playoffs next year. Not saying that's my goal just suggesting what could happen here.

Then, his contract ends, and we say goodbye.

One note on Marbury: He was brought here to be the top gun. He carried the shell of Layden's remaining team to the playoffs. Then came Crawford and Isiah's love for a "combo-2-guard" and Crawford started getting a bigger and bigger role in the offense. Then came Larry who wanted to phase Marbury out and in doing so gave Crawford an even bigger role. Then came Isiah who continued the process. As much as Marbury has gone insane one reason why is that evolution of taking the ball and team out of the hands of the more capable player and putting it into the hands of an inconsistent inefficent player - WHILE asking the prior player (marbles) to turn into Eric Snow.

That was one big mistake made there - so let him run wild for one last year - then let him go wherever he wants.




*****************

Again, just trying a new line of thinking given our situation and rather than list just what I want I wanted to put together a short list of goals that I feel are realistically achievable and could lead to not only immediate stability for the short term but also be the ground work for the future (letting marbs play out the deal and leave, "demoting" crawford, dumping Isiah, moving zach to build Curry back up so we can trade him next summer...)

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DarkKnicks
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4/13/2008  7:08 AM
Posted by Cosmic:



As to Marbury the point is this. I want his contract to expire. I doubt we buy him out. Walsh will try to give him a second chance. So again, instead of solely what I want versus what the team will look to do - I don't see the harm in returning Marbury's psyche back to the 0304 season. Here's the keys, go do what you do, and maybe we win those 38-41 games and make the playoffs next year. Not saying that's my goal just suggesting what could happen here.

Then, his contract ends, and we say goodbye.

One note on Marbury: He was brought here to be the top gun. He carried the shell of Layden's remaining team to the playoffs. Then came Crawford and Isiah's love for a "combo-2-guard" and Crawford started getting a bigger and bigger role in the offense. Then came Larry who wanted to phase Marbury out and in doing so gave Crawford an even bigger role. Then came Isiah who continued the process. As much as Marbury has gone insane one reason why is that evolution of taking the ball and team out of the hands of the more capable player and putting it into the hands of an inconsistent inefficent player - WHILE asking the prior player (marbles) to turn into Eric Snow.

That was one big mistake made there - so let him run wild for one last year - then let him go wherever he wants.
Although not many people do, I totally agree on this one with you Cosmic. Specially the part about turning Marbury into Snow. Even considering all the bad things Marbury has done or him supposedly being a "cancer", he has been used terribly bad on this team.
Bonn1997
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4/13/2008  7:13 AM
I think Zach is tradeable. We were one of five or six teams that Portland talked to. So you find out who the other teams were and find out what was being offered. If it's 2010 contracts and a guy like Frye (or whatever rookie deal player) then you go for it.
"Talked to" doesn't mean anything, and I'm sure Zach's trade value after this season is only lower than it was a year ago.
As to Jerome, Q, Jeffries --- well, neither make a lot of money and two come off in 2010. I'd just buy out Jerome as he's useless but who knows what they will do and in the mean
They're taking up roster spots that could be used on undrafted players--there are always Ben Wallces, Udonis Haslems, etc. We just don't have the roster spots to find them!
As to Marbury the point is this. I want his contract to expire. I doubt we buy him out.
I want to get something for Marbury that can be part of the long-term picture. If it means taking back extra salary in years *before* we plan to get under the cap (2008-10), then that's fine so long as we can something good in return.
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4/13/2008  7:27 AM
Posted by DarkKnicks:
Posted by Cosmic:



As to Marbury the point is this. I want his contract to expire. I doubt we buy him out. Walsh will try to give him a second chance. So again, instead of solely what I want versus what the team will look to do - I don't see the harm in returning Marbury's psyche back to the 0304 season. Here's the keys, go do what you do, and maybe we win those 38-41 games and make the playoffs next year. Not saying that's my goal just suggesting what could happen here.

Then, his contract ends, and we say goodbye.

One note on Marbury: He was brought here to be the top gun. He carried the shell of Layden's remaining team to the playoffs. Then came Crawford and Isiah's love for a "combo-2-guard" and Crawford started getting a bigger and bigger role in the offense. Then came Larry who wanted to phase Marbury out and in doing so gave Crawford an even bigger role. Then came Isiah who continued the process. As much as Marbury has gone insane one reason why is that evolution of taking the ball and team out of the hands of the more capable player and putting it into the hands of an inconsistent inefficent player - WHILE asking the prior player (marbles) to turn into Eric Snow.

That was one big mistake made there - so let him run wild for one last year - then let him go wherever he wants.
Although not many people do, I totally agree on this one with you Cosmic. Specially the part about turning Marbury into Snow. Even considering all the bad things Marbury has done or him supposedly being a "cancer", he has been used terribly bad on this team.

I concur. Steph's basketball psyche never recovered when Isiah of all people took the ball out of his hands especially considering he not just backed, but praised, enabled, and lauded Starbury Steph thru 3 (2 of them HoF) prior coaches...

[Edited by - McK1 on 13-04-2008 07:28 AM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
BRIGGS
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4/13/2008  10:00 AM
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by BRIGGS:



OK the same shtty club -Zach= + 18 wins. Ok.

You don't seem to understand. You don't fix this mess overnight. You start with a few attainable goals to begin the process of change for the better.

This would lay the ground work for future change (such as moving out Curry) and in the mean time changes the atmosphere for the better.

If you're looking for some miraculous quick fix expecting to win 45+ games and be a playoff contender next year then you're thinking like Isiah - of who's thinking we know to be extremely unreasonable.

Im not the one saying we will win 41 games next year. Maybe with Michael Beasley or Rose. If the same team comes intact it will stuggle to win 30 game sgain with Zach Curry and Lee and our poor defending uards. This team doesnt have the players to defend well enough to win 41 games in the nBA. CurryZach is way to slow and the guards dont make up for it--thats not even countin an Eddy Curry who has faced knee surgery--who knows what will come of that a 300 pound person with a knee problem.
RIP Crushalot😞
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4/13/2008  1:13 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by DarkKnicks:
Posted by Cosmic:



As to Marbury the point is this. I want his contract to expire. I doubt we buy him out. Walsh will try to give him a second chance. So again, instead of solely what I want versus what the team will look to do - I don't see the harm in returning Marbury's psyche back to the 0304 season. Here's the keys, go do what you do, and maybe we win those 38-41 games and make the playoffs next year. Not saying that's my goal just suggesting what could happen here.

Then, his contract ends, and we say goodbye.

One note on Marbury: He was brought here to be the top gun. He carried the shell of Layden's remaining team to the playoffs. Then came Crawford and Isiah's love for a "combo-2-guard" and Crawford started getting a bigger and bigger role in the offense. Then came Larry who wanted to phase Marbury out and in doing so gave Crawford an even bigger role. Then came Isiah who continued the process. As much as Marbury has gone insane one reason why is that evolution of taking the ball and team out of the hands of the more capable player and putting it into the hands of an inconsistent inefficent player - WHILE asking the prior player (marbles) to turn into Eric Snow.

That was one big mistake made there - so let him run wild for one last year - then let him go wherever he wants.
Although not many people do, I totally agree on this one with you Cosmic. Specially the part about turning Marbury into Snow. Even considering all the bad things Marbury has done or him supposedly being a "cancer", he has been used terribly bad on this team.

I concur. Steph's basketball psyche never recovered when Isiah of all people took the ball out of his hands especially considering he not just backed, but praised, enabled, and lauded Starbury Steph thru 3 (2 of them HoF) prior coaches...

[Edited by - McK1 on 13-04-2008 07:28 AM]

Marbury's skills were not enough to get us to the point where we wanted to go... that's why the ball was taken out of his hands... Isiah knew the team needed to focus in other areas... the experiment failed but it doesn't mean Marbury dominating the ball woulda yielded much better results for us in the long run... in the end i think we're much better off that the team stunk as bad as it did the past couple seasons now that Isiah's been deposed & we're about to get our best shot at a high lottery pick in years that we actually own.
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4/13/2008  2:25 PM
Posted by BigC:

5. Number 5 Should be bench Q and start Chandler. There is noway I can take another season with Stiff Long Stocking starting over talent like Chandler.
6. Trade Curry or get him to play well. There where games that Nate pull down more rebounds than him.
7. Find out what type of team this is. Are we a halfcourt feed the post team or a running up tempo team.
I'd buy this plan 1-7...... pretty well thought out and fair.

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McK1
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4/13/2008  2:42 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by DarkKnicks:
Posted by Cosmic:



As to Marbury the point is this. I want his contract to expire. I doubt we buy him out. Walsh will try to give him a second chance. So again, instead of solely what I want versus what the team will look to do - I don't see the harm in returning Marbury's psyche back to the 0304 season. Here's the keys, go do what you do, and maybe we win those 38-41 games and make the playoffs next year. Not saying that's my goal just suggesting what could happen here.

Then, his contract ends, and we say goodbye.

One note on Marbury: He was brought here to be the top gun. He carried the shell of Layden's remaining team to the playoffs. Then came Crawford and Isiah's love for a "combo-2-guard" and Crawford started getting a bigger and bigger role in the offense. Then came Larry who wanted to phase Marbury out and in doing so gave Crawford an even bigger role. Then came Isiah who continued the process. As much as Marbury has gone insane one reason why is that evolution of taking the ball and team out of the hands of the more capable player and putting it into the hands of an inconsistent inefficent player - WHILE asking the prior player (marbles) to turn into Eric Snow.

That was one big mistake made there - so let him run wild for one last year - then let him go wherever he wants.
Although not many people do, I totally agree on this one with you Cosmic. Specially the part about turning Marbury into Snow. Even considering all the bad things Marbury has done or him supposedly being a "cancer", he has been used terribly bad on this team.

I concur. Steph's basketball psyche never recovered when Isiah of all people took the ball out of his hands especially considering he not just backed, but praised, enabled, and lauded Starbury Steph thru 3 (2 of them HoF) prior coaches...

[Edited by - McK1 on 13-04-2008 07:28 AM]

Marbury's skills were not enough to get us to the point where we wanted to go... that's why the ball was taken out of his hands... Isiah knew the team needed to focus in other areas... the experiment failed

Isiah had NO PLAN for this team whatsoever but he was savvy enough to know saving his own skin in the court of public opinion meant scapegoating Steph...
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
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