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I don't think the Knicks are going to make any moves soon.
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BigC
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4/11/2008  6:39 PM
If the Knicks make a move I just think it will be finding a new gm and coach.


So right now the Knicks will make small steps which may be big steps in the long run.
1. Find a new GM
2. Hire Mark Jackson
3. Draft a good player in the draft.
4. Pray that some team takes Zach or Curry for an expiring contract. ( long shot )


So be surprised if we have the same team next year with the addition of a rookie.

[Edited by - BigC on 04-12-2008 1:30 PM]
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Siar617
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4/11/2008  7:11 PM
get j oneal should be one of the first player moves we make
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Cosmic
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4/11/2008  7:15 PM
I don't either. I think Walsh is sincere in where he's not going to be like Isiah. He's not just going to fire everyone and try to trade everyone.

He's going to do so research. He's going to interview everyone involved from the front office, to the coaching staff, to all the players that will let him.

He'll then take a patient, respectful, and methodical approach to his plan to be.


I like that though. Aside from trying to move Randolph I don't really see any truly pressing issue that MUST be done this summer do you?


We're in a pretty deep hole, we have a lot of things that need to be addressed, and there is nothing that could happen this summer that could change the big picture here. It's going to take time and I'm willing to be patient.


For me, I'm setting a personal deadline (barring some wack move that has us all shaking our heads) of about 18 months - Feb Deadline 2009 - where I want to see a conclusive plan unfolding. I think given the roster, the money tied up in it, and the present woeful situation --- it will take quite some time and I think 18 months is a good point in time to decide if you like where the future is heading or not.

The Future = 2011 really at this point. So if by Feb 2009 you can see the future looking bright by 2011? He's doing his job.


There IS NO quick fix anymore. None. Time to be patient and get out of the knee-jerk era that Isiah instilled where he had us hanging on every draft pick and every new trade being sold as "THE FINAL MOVE" to make us good. Enough of that fantasy world......
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Cosmic
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4/11/2008  7:17 PM
Posted by Siar617:

get j oneal should be one of the first player moves we make

I think that is a possibility and it would be worth the gamble because it goes right in line with Walsh's mandate to protect the Summer of 2010 cap as best he can.


Walsh did say two things.

1. He would protect the ability to go into the FA market the Summer of 2010 (obviously, moving Randolph would be needed to make this a reality anyway)

2. He would in the meantime explore possibilities to improve the current team - again - without jeopardizing that Summer 2010 Cap target.


So, as long as ANY TRADE Walsh makes in an attempt to improve the current roster does NOT return players that extend beyond 2010?

All is fine.....
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BigC
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4/11/2008  7:28 PM
Posted by Siar617:

get j oneal should be one of the first player moves we make
There is no way I would want J Oneal on this team. He gets injured too many times. He also has a huge contract. Plus J Oneal is not going to want to come here if there is no Isiah. Remember O Neal did want to be a Pacer unless Isiah was there. That's why Walsh and Bird waited until J Oneal was signed then they signed O Neal. I don't think O Neal is going to fall for the same trick twice.

Also with the Knicks luck if we did get O Neal he probably would fall down the stairs breaking both of his legs after the trade is made.
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BigC
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4/11/2008  7:30 PM
Posted by Cosmic:

I don't either. I think Walsh is sincere in where he's not going to be like Isiah. He's not just going to fire everyone and try to trade everyone.

He's going to do so research. He's going to interview everyone involved from the front office, to the coaching staff, to all the players that will let him.

He'll then take a patient, respectful, and methodical approach to his plan to be.


I like that though. Aside from trying to move Randolph I don't really see any truly pressing issue that MUST be done this summer do you?


We're in a pretty deep hole, we have a lot of things that need to be addressed, and there is nothing that could happen this summer that could change the big picture here. It's going to take time and I'm willing to be patient.


For me, I'm setting a personal deadline (barring some wack move that has us all shaking our heads) of about 18 months - Feb Deadline 2009 - where I want to see a conclusive plan unfolding. I think given the roster, the money tied up in it, and the present woeful situation --- it will take quite some time and I think 18 months is a good point in time to decide if you like where the future is heading or not.

The Future = 2011 really at this point. So if by Feb 2009 you can see the future looking bright by 2011? He's doing his job.


There IS NO quick fix anymore. None. Time to be patient and get out of the knee-jerk era that Isiah instilled where he had us hanging on every draft pick and every new trade being sold as "THE FINAL MOVE" to make us good. Enough of that fantasy world......
I agree and I think it all depends on Dolan. Can Dolan wait 3 years for result or doe he want to see progress next year. I really don't like the way Walsh left the Pacers.
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BRIGGS
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4/11/2008  7:34 PM
I would. You have to stand up if you are sitting in sht. There are several systematic ways[if we dont get lucky in the draft]to redo the course of the ship without altering payroll down the line. You have to figure out a style of play first before you go and make moves. My opinion is a big FAST diversified team with guys who can play 2 way basketball. Right now with Curry Lee and Randolph and our current guards sans Nate--we are a slow smallish team with too many offensive players. I would build a team underneath what we presently have and slowly get rid of almost everyone but 3-4 current players. I would NOT be scared to give an MLE to a player I thought was worth it because the MLE contract--when executed well--is a great investment and really should have nothing to do with the cap. It's the max contracts that get you in trouble.
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Cosmic
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4/11/2008  7:45 PM
Posted by BigC:

I agree and I think it all depends on Dolan. Can Dolan wait 3 years for result or doe he want to see progress next year. I really don't like the way Walsh left the Pacers.


Considering he sat idle watching Layden stink for years and now Isiah stink for 4.75 years on the job - leading many to start topics on whether or not Dolan cares whatsoever about the team or fans.... I firmly believe he will give Walsh the same consideration time wise.



....as to Jermaine ONeal while I'd be wary of his health - and - would need to see Zach out of town before such a move was made --- as long as any one that Walsh trades for ends in 2010? I don't see a BIG problem since I don't believe the team will be any good until the 2010-2011 season at the earliest. (by any good, I mean .500+ and being a playoff threat of some kind).


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4949
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4/11/2008  7:54 PM
Posted by Siar617:

get j oneal should be one of the first player moves we make

Why in the world would I want to trade for Zach, who's contract goes for three more years, for a guy who's contract ends in two years? Plus, 22 million will be coming off of Indian's books. They can be just as ready to make an offer for someone like LeBron as anyone.

If isiah was they're GM, then maybe they'd do it.

This is what I mean about knick fans being conditioned. Some of us assume there are other suckers out there, just because we have the biggest one.
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BigC
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4/11/2008  8:21 PM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by Siar617:

get j oneal should be one of the first player moves we make

Why in the world would I want to trade for Zach, who's contract goes for three more years, for a guy who's contract ends in two years? Plus, 22 million will be coming off of Indian's books. They can be just as ready to make an offer for someone like LeBron as anyone.

If isiah was they're GM, then maybe they'd do it.

This is what I mean about knick fans being conditioned. Some of us assume there are other suckers out there, just because we have the biggest one.

Not to mention he does injured many times.

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TMS
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4/11/2008  8:55 PM
Posted by BigC:
Posted by Siar617:

get j oneal should be one of the first player moves we make
There is no way I would want J Oneal on this team. He gets injured too many times. He also has a huge contract. Plus J Oneal is not going to want to come here if there is no Isiah. Remember O Neal did want to be a Pacer unless Isiah was there. That's why Walsh and Bird waited until J Oneal was signed then they signed O Neal. I don't think O Neal is going to fall for the same trick twice.

Also with the Knicks luck if we did get O Neal he probably would fall down the stairs breaking both of his legs after the trade is made.

if we could unload either Curry or Zach's contract to get him i don't see how it hurts us... i would welcome such a move w/open arms... trading Marbury's expiring for him is another matter tho.
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4949
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4/11/2008  9:05 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by BigC:
Posted by Siar617:

get j oneal should be one of the first player moves we make
There is no way I would want J Oneal on this team. He gets injured too many times. He also has a huge contract. Plus J Oneal is not going to want to come here if there is no Isiah. Remember O Neal did want to be a Pacer unless Isiah was there. That's why Walsh and Bird waited until J Oneal was signed then they signed O Neal. I don't think O Neal is going to fall for the same trick twice.

Also with the Knicks luck if we did get O Neal he probably would fall down the stairs breaking both of his legs after the trade is made.

if we could unload either Curry or Zach's contract to get him i don't see how it hurts us... i would welcome such a move w/open arms... trading Marbury's expiring for him is another matter tho.

If Indiana was dumb enough to make that move, I'd be open armed to!

O's contract ends in two years, with 22 million coming off of Indiana's books. Oh' yeah! I'd make that move for sure.

Indiana: 'Yeah right'!

[Edited by - 4949 on 04-11-2008 9:06 PM]
I'll never trust this' team again.
BigC
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4/11/2008  9:16 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by BigC:
Posted by Siar617:

get j oneal should be one of the first player moves we make
There is no way I would want J Oneal on this team. He gets injured too many times. He also has a huge contract. Plus J Oneal is not going to want to come here if there is no Isiah. Remember O Neal did want to be a Pacer unless Isiah was there. That's why Walsh and Bird waited until J Oneal was signed then they signed O Neal. I don't think O Neal is going to fall for the same trick twice.

Also with the Knicks luck if we did get O Neal he probably would fall down the stairs breaking both of his legs after the trade is made.

if we could unload either Curry or Zach's contract to get him i don't see how it hurts us... i would welcome such a move w/open arms... trading Marbury's expiring for him is another matter tho.

That's the thing I don't think the Pacers are crazy enough to take Zach's contract. So the only really option is probably giving Marbury's contract. That would go away of the plan to bring the cap down. Also Curry's trade value is at all time low.

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4949
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4/11/2008  9:32 PM
Posted by BigC:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by BigC:
Posted by Siar617:

get j oneal should be one of the first player moves we make
There is no way I would want J Oneal on this team. He gets injured too many times. He also has a huge contract. Plus J Oneal is not going to want to come here if there is no Isiah. Remember O Neal did want to be a Pacer unless Isiah was there. That's why Walsh and Bird waited until J Oneal was signed then they signed O Neal. I don't think O Neal is going to fall for the same trick twice.

Also with the Knicks luck if we did get O Neal he probably would fall down the stairs breaking both of his legs after the trade is made.

if we could unload either Curry or Zach's contract to get him i don't see how it hurts us... i would welcome such a move w/open arms... trading Marbury's expiring for him is another matter tho.

That's the thing I don't think the Pacers are crazy enough to take Zach's contract. So the only really option is probably giving Marbury's contract. That would go away of the plan to bring the cap down. Also Curry's trade value is at all time low.

There's 30 mil coming off books, when Rose and starbury are gone after next year. Do the Knicks need to fill the entire 30 mil into two more guys, for the next couple of years? Or can they just use lets say 10 mil, for two guys, for next two years?
I'll never trust this' team again.
Siar617
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4/11/2008  9:55 PM
getting oneal for zach and jj would be great
getting him for steph wouldn't be bad is we got something else in return like handing them lee and getting thier #1
jesus617 walks
BigC
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4/12/2008  9:12 AM
Posted by Siar617:

getting oneal for zach and jj would be great
getting him for steph wouldn't be bad is we got something else in return like handing them lee and getting thier #1

I think if we do trade Zach in a year Nate, and Lee will be in that package. Other than that I don't see anyone wanting Zach who's contract goes up to 2011 for 17 mil.
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4/12/2008  10:15 AM
I would trade Lee for another high pick. If they dont want to take two big people they can take either Mcgee or Randolph and Westbrook. This will help our defense which is the number 1 area of concern. I don't want to hear crp about ballhandling outside shooting or any other offensive problem[of which we do have] the fastest way to get better is my improving our defense with long athletic players.

We can score 100 points the big problem is we give up 110. Taking a smallish offensive guard wont stope the problem. If we go with defensive players who also have nice offensive potential--that is the way to go---even if these players have flaws or not physically there yet. We are NOT winning the championship next year so I want to take the best long term prospects. We wont win with Lee because hes terrible on defense and we are NOT getting rid of Curry Randolph unless the lottery pick goes with it[too expensive]. This way Im keeping my salary structure intact and Im changing dynamics that has to be done.
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SupremeCommander
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4/12/2008  1:28 PM
The only moves I want to see are for expirings (not likely) or for draft picks. Count me on board with those who would trade Nate and Lee for picks (for cap structure purposes).

Other than that, I'm okay with no moves. The most efficient way to fix this mess--which is the same as its always been--is to let these albatross contracts expire. Sucks, but I'll be happy in three years when there is no more crap on the roster.
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BigC
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4/12/2008  1:40 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

I would trade Lee for another high pick. If they dont want to take two big people they can take either Mcgee or Randolph and Westbrook. This will help our defense which is the number 1 area of concern. I don't want to hear crp about ballhandling outside shooting or any other offensive problem[of which we do have] the fastest way to get better is my improving our defense with long athletic players.

We can score 100 points the big problem is we give up 110. Taking a smallish offensive guard wont stope the problem. If we go with defensive players who also have nice offensive potential--that is the way to go---even if these players have flaws or not physically there yet. We are NOT winning the championship next year so I want to take the best long term prospects. We wont win with Lee because hes terrible on defense and we are NOT getting rid of Curry Randolph unless the lottery pick goes with it[too expensive]. This way Im keeping my salary structure intact and Im changing dynamics that has to be done.

I have no problem with trading Lee, or Nate for a draft pick. I was hoping that Curry would have a good year so the Knicks would be able to trade him for a draft pick or expiring contracts.

[Edited by - BigC on 04-12-2008 1:47 PM]
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BigC
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4/12/2008  1:45 PM
Posted by SupremeCommander:

The only moves I want to see are for expirings (not likely) or for draft picks. Count me on board with those who would trade Nate and Lee for picks (for cap structure purposes).

Other than that, I'm okay with no moves. The most efficient way to fix this mess--which is the same as its always been--is to let these albatross contracts expire. Sucks, but I'll be happy in three years when there is no more crap on the roster.
I hope the Knicks do not make moves unless it is for an expiring contract. I do not want to see moves being made for the hell of it like Isiah. If the Knicks have the same team they had this year that will be a good thing.

The reason is, that means they will have a losing record and they will get a good draft pick next year also. Plus Marbury, and Malik will be coming off the books next year. So to me it makes sense to stay with the same team unless we trade players for expiring contracts.

Lee for a pick does sound reasonable or Balkman for a pick.


[Edited by - BigC on 04-12-2008 1:47 PM]
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