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trade ideas to get another 1st?
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Siar617
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3/29/2008  2:04 PM
its obvious that our 1st isn't goint to be enough

nate jc to seattle for wilcox wilkrns and a 1st
might be asking much but i'd be willing to throw lee in if we some how got jr smith with the full ext

lee rose for artest and a 1st

rose and collins for miles and a 1st

jaric and walker for curry rose and 1st
lee and nate for cv and 1st
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4949
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3/29/2008  2:39 PM
Are you just throwing a bunch of ideas out there? How many times can we rebuild?
I'll never trust this' team again.
bigbeast
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3/29/2008  2:50 PM
Trading for an additional 1st pick will be difficult this year. There are only two teams with multiple picks this year, the Nets (and it may end up being 2 lotto picks the Dallas is playing lately) and the Griz.

Phoenix is usually stingy about shelling out dough to thier draft picks but they own the Hawks pick and if it ends up being a lotto pick, they will hold onto that pick. If it slides out of the lotto, they may be a contender to shop that pick.

Portland is another team that I can see flirting with the possibility of moving the pick but only for a stud/vet player to get them over the top. They may feel they have enough young players. But unfortunately, we dont have any stud players to move.

No way will Seattle or Milwuakee trade a pick that will land in the top 8 so forget that.


[Edited by - bigbeast on 29-03-2008 2:51 PM]
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
4949
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3/29/2008  3:54 PM
Posted by bigbeast:

No way will Seattle or Milwuakee trade a pick that will land in the top 8 so forget that.


[Edited by - bigbeast on 29-03-2008 2:51 PM]

Exactly.

No matter what move you make, your just giving away a few good pieces, in a few of those suggestions, for questionable players and future unknowns for the draft.

And we tried an opposite of that already, when we gave away two drafts (which turned out to be high picks) for Curry. And ironically, it was partly because of Curry, those drafts turned out to be so high. This would be a bad deal in positioning ourselves, especially when we have no guarantee of what would come out of it, or at least an idea of what would come out of it.

I dont' want to take anymore chances in our search for answers anymore. It has to be well thought out, with some sort of guarantee that we'd be in some kind of position to make this team better.

We took a chance on Curry, Q, starbury, Rose, James, Jeffries, Francis. All failures!
I'll never trust this' team again.
Siar617
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3/29/2008  4:12 PM
im just throwing sh1t at a sh@@@@ wall to see if s@@t sticks to sh@@
jesus617 walks
4949
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3/29/2008  4:16 PM
Posted by Siar617:

im just throwing sh1t at a sh@@@@ wall to see if s@@t sticks to sh@@

The sh@@ don't stick.
I'll never trust this' team again.
EnySpree
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3/30/2008  7:36 AM
Posted by 4949:

Are you just throwing a bunch of ideas out there? How many times can we rebuild?

I don't get this statement? You expect to not make any roster moves at all for say 5 more years? Anyway you look at it......its still rebuilding right?

Whoever the GM is has to be concious of the expiring contracts.....at the same time if there is a way to speed up the process of rebuilding through youth or picking up a diamond in the rough like sergio rodriguez, etc.....you gotta make moves.

Obviously not Isiah Thomas moves. Maybe Grunfeld type moves!
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4949
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3/30/2008  9:02 AM
Posted by EnySpree:
Posted by 4949:

Are you just throwing a bunch of ideas out there? How many times can we rebuild?

......its still rebuilding right?

No, it's called having to start over with something you already have. If we are gonna constantly wheel and deal a revolving door of players, then you'll never develop a foundation. Some of you want to get the prize in drafts. The Knicks never work out that way, so you have to take what you can, find the best pieces you can, get rid of the obvious garbage, let the contracts run out 'so we can free up some money to go get a couple of free agent stars, to add to an already established foundation. Even if a part of that foundation is Lee, Crawford, Collins, Morris, Nate, Chandler and Balkman.

The question is where do you start building your foundation and stop the revolviing door? You do it when you start to develop the youth movement and we have already done that. Now lets build on it and not get rid of it, only to have to do it all over again.

These last three seasons are not the result of our rooks, it is the result of bad veteran contracts, that did not live up to the hype. Let's start being fiscally responsible, a little' more conservative about making such drastic and unknown moves anymore. We need a foundation to be established.

We also need to get a great scouting crew together, to start making better moves and stop making moves that turn out horrible. I'm afraid the common Knick fan has been conditioned to keep supporting this kind of crap that's been driving everything into the ground for the longest time.

This' is how you rebuild a team.
I'll never trust this' team again.
knicksbabyyeah
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3/30/2008  9:08 AM
FYI, Dallas their pick is lottery protected this year

as for getting another pick, I'd love one

as for Phoenix, they have a small window of opportunity, they might be tempted for a reasonable player if it helps them now instead of a rookie who helps them down the line
4949
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3/30/2008  9:34 AM
Phoenix is already an established team though. And yes, I too would like another pick, but not at the expense of getting rid of our young players as suggested above.
I'll never trust this' team again.
EnySpree
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3/30/2008  9:41 AM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by EnySpree:
Posted by 4949:

Are you just throwing a bunch of ideas out there? How many times can we rebuild?

......its still rebuilding right?

No, it's called having to start over with something you already have. If we are gonna constantly wheel and deal a revolving door of players, then you'll never develop a foundation. Some of you want to get the prize in drafts. The Knicks never work out that way, so you have to take what you can, find the best pieces you can, get rid of the obvious garbage, let the contracts run out 'so we can free up some money to go get a couple of free agent stars, to add to an already established foundation. Even if a part of that foundation is Lee, Crawford, Collins, Morris, Nate, Chandler and Balkman.

The question is where do you start building your foundation and stop the revolviing door? You do it when you start to develop the youth movement and we have already done that. Now lets build on it and not get rid of it, only to have to do it all over again.

These last three seasons are not the result of our rooks, it is the result of bad veteran contracts, that did not live up to the hype. Let's start being fiscally responsible, a little' more conservative about making such drastic and unknown moves anymore. We need a foundation to be established.

We also need to get a great scouting crew together, to start making better moves and stop making moves that turn out horrible. I'm afraid the common Knick fan has been conditioned to keep supporting this kind of crap that's been driving everything into the ground for the longest time.

This' is how you rebuild a team.

So in other words we are in agreement? Lmao......you just trying to show us your fanhood.
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EnySpree
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3/30/2008  10:00 AM
Posted by 4949:

Phoenix is already an established team though. And yes, I too would like another pick, but not at the expense of getting rid of our young players as suggested above.

Our young players are pretty much all we have so you are right.......still what should we do about malik, jerome, marbs, and Q.......not to mention Curry, Zach, and jared. Those guys represent all of the major salaries on the Knicks roster. That's disgusting. How can we move them all? Or should we?

Marbs can still play. He's not 20 and 8 anymore but on a team that's filled with vets, he could be that hired gun.....Knicks would have to take back a bad contract but is that ok if those contracts are say pryzbilla and miles with sergio as the main prize in that type of trade??? I mentioned a similiar trade in another thread. Pryz and sergio need to be Knicks next year. Pryz is a damn good center as far as defense, rebounding, setting picks and cleaning up chippy baskets. Sergio is going to be a really good player in years to come. A fat Miles is better than a fat Q and a healthy Jared for tht matter. Even better.....would portland take back jared for miles?

I'm just thowing **** around. Knicks need to mix things up, but we are in agreement that david, nate, balkman, chandler, maybe collins an morris need to stick around.

I think if they can't be huslted for a better player, guys like q, malik, and jerome should be waived.

Still whoever is gm needs to talk to a team like portland, or whiever about their diamonds in the rough.
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4949
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3/30/2008  10:04 AM
And I'm not saying that the rooks we have now and the few players we have now, with a couple years under their belt, I'm not saying that they should never' be let go. NO' I'm not suggesting that at all. If they don't develop and move to another level after up to four years, then they will be just as part of getting rid of as anyone one of the vets. I'm merely saying we need to stop the revolving door and establish a foundation to build from. That's my only reasoning. Because with a foundation, you can then make good moves and build around the foundation in place of a star that we lack, until we get a couple of stars.
I'll never trust this' team again.
TheGame
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3/30/2008  10:04 AM
The Suns are in win now mode. I would have to believe that they would have interest in Balkman, Nate, Lee, and Chandler as they all would seem to fit their style. If we could trade Balkman and Collins and $3 mill for their 1st round pick, I would do. Augustin might be available when the Suns (Hawks) pick and he would be a solid starting PG prospect.
Trust the Process
4949
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3/30/2008  10:05 AM
Posted by EnySpree:
Posted by 4949:
Posted by EnySpree:
Posted by 4949:

Are you just throwing a bunch of ideas out there? How many times can we rebuild?

......its still rebuilding right?

No, it's called having to start over with something you already have. If we are gonna constantly wheel and deal a revolving door of players, then you'll never develop a foundation. Some of you want to get the prize in drafts. The Knicks never work out that way, so you have to take what you can, find the best pieces you can, get rid of the obvious garbage, let the contracts run out 'so we can free up some money to go get a couple of free agent stars, to add to an already established foundation. Even if a part of that foundation is Lee, Crawford, Collins, Morris, Nate, Chandler and Balkman.

The question is where do you start building your foundation and stop the revolviing door? You do it when you start to develop the youth movement and we have already done that. Now lets build on it and not get rid of it, only to have to do it all over again.

These last three seasons are not the result of our rooks, it is the result of bad veteran contracts, that did not live up to the hype. Let's start being fiscally responsible, a little' more conservative about making such drastic and unknown moves anymore. We need a foundation to be established.

We also need to get a great scouting crew together, to start making better moves and stop making moves that turn out horrible. I'm afraid the common Knick fan has been conditioned to keep supporting this kind of crap that's been driving everything into the ground for the longest time.

This' is how you rebuild a team.

So in other words we are in agreement? Lmao......you just trying to show us your fanhood.

Oh' we are? Oh' okay! No problemo then. I was looking forward to a good and healthy fight.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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3/30/2008  10:17 AM
Posted by EnySpree:
Posted by 4949:

Phoenix is already an established team though. And yes, I too would like another pick, but not at the expense of getting rid of our young players as suggested above.

Our young players are pretty much all we have so you are right.......still what should we do about malik, jerome, marbs, and Q.......not to mention Curry, Zach, and jared. Those guys represent all of the major salaries on the Knicks roster. That's disgusting. How can we move them all? Or should we?

Marbs can still play. He's not 20 and 8 anymore but on a team that's filled with vets, he could be that hired gun.....Knicks would have to take back a bad contract but is that ok if those contracts are say pryzbilla and miles with sergio as the main prize in that type of trade??? I mentioned a similiar trade in another thread. Pryz and sergio need to be Knicks next year. Pryz is a damn good center as far as defense, rebounding, setting picks and cleaning up chippy baskets. Sergio is going to be a really good player in years to come. A fat Miles is better than a fat Q and a healthy Jared for tht matter. Even better.....would portland take back jared for miles?

I'm just thowing **** around. Knicks need to mix things up, but we are in agreement that david, nate, balkman, chandler, maybe collins an morris need to stick around.

I think if they can't be huslted for a better player, guys like q, malik, and jerome should be waived.

Still whoever is gm needs to talk to a team like portland, or whiever about their diamonds in the rough.

I think the only thing we can' do is just let it all play out. Let em play, until the contracts run out, or unless dolan buys one or two out (or waived) to free up some money for a big catch in free agency, if not through a trade.

If you or anyone can convince us of another possible rookie center to be had, then by all means bring it up and we'll all take a look at them. I'm open to getting the best possible pick that we can. Lopez isnt' written in stone for me, but I just don't see anything else at this point.

I'm all about building a foundation and waiting a little longer if that's what it takes. Unless of course, something major becomes avaiable to bring this team 'instant' respect again. Very simular to what Boston did or better. No more trading same level player for same level player and losing experience over it. Do you guys realize that starbury is our most experienced as a Knick at five years now? That shows you how fast the doors have been revolving.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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3/30/2008  10:29 AM
Posted by TheGame:

The Suns are in win now mode. I would have to believe that they would have interest in Balkman, Nate, Lee, and Chandler as they all would seem to fit their style. If we could trade Balkman and Collins and $3 mill for their 1st round pick, I would do. Augustin might be available when the Suns (Hawks) pick and he would be a solid starting PG prospect.

Unless we get a shot at Rose first, then a pick like that can be used on maybe a Tyler or something. And that pick position may end up around the early 20's I'd say (not Tyler, because I see him going earlier). I'm a little weary about trading Collins though. For me, my top hands off are Lee, Crawford, Collins and Chandler and maybe Nate. And only considering Nate, because he could still be a pretty good 7th man off the bench. If we had to, I'm okay letting Balkman, Morris go for something like that. It's minimal and would still keep our foundation intact. But really, I'd like an inside 20 draft choice to have a real chance at getting someone with a lot better potential, so I probably wouldn't do it myself.
I'll never trust this' team again.
arkrud
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3/30/2008  10:31 AM
It is all about having Knicks follow-able next couple of years.
And with Isiah and Dolan personal enrolment in place this team is boring, irrelevant and not worth following up, forget to be excited about.
The only way for real fans to get back on boards to clean the house from Tomas, convince Dolan to stay away as with the Rangers and let the bumpy road back to the team begin. Otherwise - out for good
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
4949
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3/30/2008  10:36 AM
Posted by arkrud:

It is all about having Knicks follow-able next couple of years.
And with Isiah and Dolan personal enrolment in place this team is boring, irrelevant and not worth following up, forget to be excited about.
The only way for real fans to get back on boards to clean the house from Tomas, convince Dolan to stay away as with the Rangers and let the bumpy road back to the team begin. Otherwise - out for good

I'm going to continue to promote 'foundation' establishment of the Knicks. Not this tear it all down and start all over again!

Once again, I will say it is not the whole teams fault. It is bad management and hyped vets who haven't earned a dime. Let it play out, hang on to the good pieces and go from there. Promote this concept. I bet dolan would listen, not that dolan would listen to any of us, but you'd be surprise what kinds of words we put out there could actually end up in his ear.

[Edited by - 4949 on 03-30-2008 10:38 AM]
I'll never trust this' team again.
arkrud
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3/30/2008  10:39 AM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by arkrud:

It is all about having Knicks follow-able next couple of years.
And with Isiah and Dolan personal enrolment in place this team is boring, irrelevant and not worth following up, forget to be excited about.
The only way for real fans to get back on boards to clean the house from Tomas, convince Dolan to stay away as with the Rangers and let the bumpy road back to the team begin. Otherwise - out for good

I'm going to continue to promote 'foundation' establishment of the Knicks. Not this tear it all down and start all over again!

Once again, I will say it is not the whole teams fault. It is bad management and hyped vets who haven't earned a dime. Let it play out, hang on to the good pieces and go from there. Promote this concept. I bet dolan would listen, not that dolan would listen to any of us, but you'd be surprise what kinds of words we put out there could actually end up in his ear.

[Edited by - 4949 on 03-30-2008 10:38 AM]

Foundation is young players selected and grown in team system.
This is not happening for a long time and Knicks will not be successful without this. Never…



"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
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