I know the knocks on him are abundant, but I would take Hansborough at 13 in that scenario.

I would say thats a pretty disappointing draft to be honest. I would rather have Lee then Jack and Thompson.

Also 5 is pretty high for Thabeet. I am not sold on taking him that high at all. Maybe somewhere in the 8-12 range, but 1-5 (surely where we will be picking) I would like to draft a player we can possible build around.

A few concerns on Thabeet:
- African players tend to suck in the NBA, there is one Deke, and tons of Bomchjes, Diops, etc

- his rebounding is suspect for a guy his size. To be fair I saw him play twice. His man2man is nothing special and he got push around quite a bit. His help defense was the best I saw in CBB (I dont watch much) since Camby took UMass on that great run

- his skill set and short comings remind me a lot of Dalembert. I actually like Sam, but is that what you want at pick 5?

This is a bit OT, but doesn't Jarrett Jack have like one of the biggest domes in the league (next to Steph, of course) ?

Posted by fishmike:

I would say thats a pretty disappointing draft to be honest. I would rather have Lee then Jack and Thompson.

Also 5 is pretty high for Thabeet. I am not sold on taking him that high at all. Maybe somewhere in the 8-12 range, but 1-5 (surely where we will be picking) I would like to draft a player we can possible build around.

A few concerns on Thabeet:
- African players tend to suck in the NBA, there is one Deke, and tons of Bomchjes, Diops, etc

- his rebounding is suspect for a guy his size. To be fair I saw him play twice. His man2man is nothing special and he got push around quite a bit. His help defense was the best I saw in CBB (I dont watch much) since Camby took UMass on that great run

- his skill set and short comings remind me a lot of Dalembert. I actually like Sam, but is that what you want at pick 5?

fishmike--have you ever seen Thompson play---? I can honestly say I only watched him the other night--but the things he did at 6-11--especially the tough skill sets including dribbling were VERY impressive for 6-11. This is a guy who is always triple teamed yet still produces in a big time way. When he did go up against guys like Beasley--he played VERY VERY well. I don't like making assessments off of 1 game but the track record in his numbers indicate that he is a consistent performer against any level of competition in CBB.
Ive seen Thabeet 60 times. He just broke Mourning's shotblocking record as a sophomore. He has shown signs on the offense end that cant be ignored. Having a 7-3--6-11 Frontcourt where both guys skills kind of intertwine and balance nicely could change the landscape of the NY Knicks for the next 10-12 years. If I can compare to the present Thompson looked a lot like David West alebit two inches taller. I think David west went 17th or 18th. We would go froma team that doesnt protect the basket to one that could protect the basket the best in a short period of time as these guys get their experience.
Unless I get pick 1--there is NO quick fix.

Posted by fishmike:

I would say thats a pretty disappointing draft to be honest. I would rather have Lee then Jack and Thompson.

Also 5 is pretty high for Thabeet. I am not sold on taking him that high at all. Maybe somewhere in the 8-12 range, but 1-5 (surely where we will be picking) I would like to draft a player we can possible build around.

A few concerns on Thabeet:
- African players tend to suck in the NBA, there is one Deke, and tons of Bomchjes, Diops, etc

- his rebounding is suspect for a guy his size. To be fair I saw him play twice. His man2man is nothing special and he got push around quite a bit. His help defense was the best I saw in CBB (I dont watch much) since Camby took UMass on that great run

- his skill set and short comings remind me a lot of Dalembert. I actually like Sam, but is that what you want at pick 5?

I've seen all his games this year and you aren't far off. Here is my assessment

Offense: Has a looooong way to go. His hands are two of the worst I have ever seen and he lacks natural bball instincts that take years to develop(he's only played for about 5 years). I will note that he does have a pretty good touch and has shown ridiculous improvement over this season. His free throw shooting went from 50% to almost 70%, including 19 for his last 21. He is developing a hook shot and has shown much better touch around the basket. He's even slowly developing a 12-15 foot jumpshot. He is light years away from being an offensive player but we can all agree this isn't why he is getting drafted.

Rebounds-Beginning of the year I would say he was mediocre. But his improvement here has been so gradual that it's difficult to notice. Over his last 11 games he's up around 10 rebounds per game and is attacking the ball, something he didn't do earlier this year and last year. I think this is the instinct thing taking over. The hands issue crops up here. He loses a lot of rebounds. Some he fumbles and some are just snatched right out of his hands.

Passing-He's a pretty good passer for a big guy. Calhoun is using him more and more in the high post and we are actually getting good results from it. He is able to find cutters but has moments where he becomes turnover prone. This will improve with time.

On the ball Defense-Fish I think you are right and wrong on this one. Quicker guys have no shot against Thabeet. He's able to play 5 feet off and still block shots and tends to be quicker than most big men anyway. You can put him on both PF's and centers and he has absolutely no problem. Usually by half-time guys aren't even taking shots against him or they are pump faking on every shot they take. Seeing it live is hilarious. You can actually see them thinking as they shoot. I do think Fish was right about how Thabeet guards the stronger centers. They tend to be able to body him and get their shots off. Thing about this is that he never gets in foul trouble and never gets frustrated. And even if his man is scoring he has such an impact on the rest of the game that it doesn't seem to matter.

Off the Ball defense I don't remember Hakeem or Deke in college but Thabeet is the best shotblocker I have ever seen. Like I said above, their are literally games where guys can't make layups against Uconn because they are terrified. Their are games where 3 point shooters are hesitating on jumpers because they see him in the paint 10 feet away and aren't sure if he can get out and block it. It's ridiculous.

OverallHe's a project. He has a great attitude and judging by his improvement, a great work ethic. How fast his hands and instincts improve will determine whether he is a career game changer like Deke or a career defensive role player. He's a risk no matter where you draft him. He has the potential to be a game changer and the work ethic to make it happen, but there are never guarantees with players like him. You roll the dice and let the development cycle take it's course.

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by joec32033:

Why would Portland do that? Oden and Aldridge solidfy their frontcourt next year. Outlaw is definately their starting SF. Why give up a solid/starting quality PG and a fringe lotto pick for a bench player who they have to worry about resigninga year or two before their two starters?

Yeah, that was my first thought.

If Lee is going to be traded, I want it to only be in a deal where we get rid of Zach. Maybe Denver would fall for it.

I would have to agree. Only way you trade DLee or Nate would be to get rid of Zeddy.

Posted by BRIGGS:

I think that Portland would do it because it's a good deal that makes sense for Portland. David Lee really isnt a starter in the league but he is a 30 minute player. That is a HUGE proven upgrade over Frye.

We get back a player I believe is a bit undervalued with good size at the PG position and the 13th pick. I have my own opinion on how we should retool the team and I believe in defense first. I was VERY VERY impressed with Thompson and I think that will become apparent to others when he goes into workouts. He really did look like a taller David West who can post and shoot the mid range shot rebound pass block shots and had OUTSTANDING handle at 6-11. Thabeet is a backbone player. You dont break BE records that Alonzo Mourning holds by being a stiff of any form of the imagination. He is 19 for his last 21 from the FT line and 11-12 in his last two games from the field --using diversified FGA and a left hand. He played sick two games just prior to his run--nearly playing 40 minutes with a fever[shows commitment] His Y-Y improvement is nearly at a 100% level.

Both players seem to have VERY high charahcter and would pair to make a HUGE frontline. Filling in the blanks is much easier with a huge defensive presnece of those two guys guarding the middle[evantually together] this is nothing that happens overnight. This is a long term move. By eliminating contracts and not paying lee 8-9mm--we should be able to get under the cap within a reasonable time. And again--not to undervalue the other part--we get an actual 6-3 PG who can play.

Obviously you didn't get the memo from Isiah, saying that the big man is being phased out and the NBA is becoming a small man's league if it isn't already.

Seriously though, I don't think those scenario's present enough value for the Knicks to trade their most valuable trade asset, relatively speaking of course.

Posted by islesfan:

Seriously though, I don't think those scenario's present enough value for the Knicks to trade their most valuable trade asset, relatively speaking of course.

getting the #5 overall pick for David Lee isn't fair value to you from the Knicks' perspective? i woulda thought you'd rag someone for even daring to suggest it personally.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by islesfan:

Seriously though, I don't think those scenario's present enough value for the Knicks to trade their most valuable trade asset, relatively speaking of course.

getting the #5 overall pick for David Lee isn't fair value to you from the Knicks' perspective? i woulda thought you'd rag someone for even daring to suggest it personally.

Scenario is Lee for #13 and Jack.
I don't know enough about the prospects in that area to say whether it's fair value, but I'd probably hold onto Lee unless it's a top 10 pick. Jack just doesn't impress me much.