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Re-examining the Zach Randolph trade for a sec.
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Finestrg
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1/26/2008  8:06 PM
Just curious who else thinks we could've definitely got either Martell Webster or Sergio Rodriguez if Isiah would've stood fast and demanded either or no deal. I think we absolutely could have - I think they wanted to unload Zach that badly. And remember, the original trade proposal I heard had Webster in the deal. Discuss....

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Incidently, here's a smaller trade idea for Rodriguez -

Balkman or Chandler or Robinson and Morris for Sergio Rodriguez and the rights to our 2nd rounder back that we turn into Josh Shipp. 6'5" SG from UCLA. Effortlessly smooth spot-up/off-the-dribble jumpshooter that out of all the swingmen that project to go early 2nd round (Shan Foster, Brandon Rush, etc...), I see Shipp as have the best chance of having his game carrying over to the NBA. We could definitely use this guy, even if we had to send him to the D-league for a while. He's got nice size, good court sense and a deadly jumper. How'd a Rodriguez/Shipp backcourt look for the next decade? What do ya think?





[Edited by - finestrg on 01-26-2008 8:20 PM]
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WOODMANnYk
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1/26/2008  8:12 PM
The Zach trade should've never happened. That was not the position desperately needing an upgrade. It was the small forward spot. Despite the reputation of RON Ron, he would've made much sense.

If you knew that Curry had one of his best seasons of his career last yr then why would you add Randolph into the mix??? It made no sense!

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ramtour420
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1/26/2008  8:23 PM
Maybe should trade Z-bo for Ron ron then. Not sure if it would be possible but seems like a logical solution
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WOODMANnYk
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1/26/2008  10:26 PM
Contract dont match between both alone!

Sac would have to add Salmons or Mikki Moore into the trade for this to work..

Right now i dont think sac would trade artest to Ny. During the summerof '07, Knicks had a better chance.
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JesseDark
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1/26/2008  11:34 PM
Posted by WOODMANnYk:

The Zach trade should've never happened. That was not the position desperately needing an upgrade. It was the small forward spot. Despite the reputation of RON Ron, he would've made much sense.

If you knew that Curry had one of his best seasons of his career last yr then why would you add Randolph into the mix??? It made no sense!

To play devil's advocate you could say why bother trade for Ron Ron when it looks like now we will get him for nothing when he walks.
Bring back dee-fense
holfresh
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1/27/2008  12:25 AM
The Randolph trade was a tremendous trade...What it has done for us and more importantly Isiah is crystallize the fact that this team doesn't need more talent, it's needs a new direction...This team needs a profound culture change...Until then, we won't win....So trading for anyone outside the likes of Kobe, LeBron or KG is pointless...This team is in dire need of leadership with a work ethic...This team is in dire need of new management with direction... Isiah does not provide any of the above...I guess wait we now for the cards to play out...


That said, Nate and Balkman has injected energy into the team the last few games and now they seem a little competitive....We will still lose...We need sweeping changes...





[Edited by - holfresh on 01-27-2008 12:29 AM]
nyk4ever
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1/27/2008  12:28 AM
Posted by holfresh:


The Randolph trade was a tremendous trade...What it has done for us and more importantly Isiah is crystallize the fact that this team doesn't need more talent, it's needs a new direction...This team needs a profound culture change...Until then, we won't win....So trading for anyone outside the likes of Kobe, LeBron or KG is pointless...This team is in dire need of leadership with a work ethic...This team is in dire need of new management with direction... Isiah does not provide any of the above...I guess wait we now for the cards to play out...


Wow, Holfresh. That post sounds like something from me or Bip from about 2 years ago.

Glad to hear it!
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
TMS
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1/27/2008  1:07 AM
Posted by WOODMANnYk:

The Zach trade should've never happened. That was not the position desperately needing an upgrade. It was the small forward spot. Despite the reputation of RON Ron, he would've made much sense.

If you knew that Curry had one of his best seasons of his career last yr then why would you add Randolph into the mix??? It made no sense!

exactly what Isiah's MO has been since he's been here... too much GODDAMN tinkering w/the roster for players that make absolutely no sense in the grand scheme of things of what we should be looking for to achieve some sort of team balance.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Finestrg
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1/27/2008  4:13 AM
I know there's nothing we can really do about it now but the fact of the matter is, this trade's 100% better for us if we had got back either Webster or Sergio Rodriguez along with Randolph instead of the useless dead weight of Dickau and Freddy Jones. I said it at the time. Can't believed we jumped the gun the way we did.

A) Portland was looking to unload Zach's contract at all costs - huge salary dump that's almost unheard of in the NBA now-a-days (name another team in the league that was prepared to take on Randolph's rediculous contract at that time even if it needed a power forward) and it opened up a spot for LaMarcus Aldridge - 2 things Portland was desperately trying to accomplish. Did Isiah actually think there were any other destinations Portland was prepared to send him? Isiah was the one holding the cards here, not Kevin Pritchard, and he did nothing with the leverage he had. ---- "Dan Dickau and Freddy Jones huh? No Webster? No Rodriguez? No thanks. No deal Pritch... We're OK with developing David Lee. Thanks for calling." It wouldn't have been too long before Pritchard called back to renegotiate something else...

B) The Blazers have such tremendous depth at both the wing and the point that they easily could've included one or the other in the deal with no problem. And you know Isiah had interest in Webster - Webster was part of the original rumors we were hearing. Just pisses me off that Isiah allowed himself to get played the way he did....

--------

Anyway, nobody else around here thinks Josh Shipp would make a nice 2-guard in the NBA? Definitely worth someone's late 1st rounder/early 2nd rounder IMO. Sergio Rodriguez and Portland's 2nd rounder that we turn into Josh Shipp for some package like Nate/Randolph Morris or Balkman/Morris is definitely something I could see happening if the Knicks ever came calling.





[Edited by - finestrg on 01-27-2008 04:25 AM]
Bonn1997
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1/27/2008  6:16 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:


The Randolph trade was a tremendous trade...What it has done for us and more importantly Isiah is crystallize the fact that this team doesn't need more talent, it's needs a new direction...This team needs a profound culture change...Until then, we won't win....So trading for anyone outside the likes of Kobe, LeBron or KG is pointless...This team is in dire need of leadership with a work ethic...This team is in dire need of new management with direction... Isiah does not provide any of the above...I guess wait we now for the cards to play out...


Wow, Holfresh. That post sounds like something from me or Bip from about 2 years ago.

Glad to hear it!

He sounds like a pure hater!
TMS
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1/27/2008  6:32 AM
Posted by Finestrg:

I know there's nothing we can really do about it now but the fact of the matter is, this trade's 100% better for us if we had got back either Webster or Sergio Rodriguez along with Randolph instead of the useless dead weight of Dickau and Freddy Jones. I said it at the time. Can't believed we jumped the gun the way we did.

A) Portland was looking to unload Zach's contract at all costs - huge salary dump that's almost unheard of in the NBA now-a-days (name another team in the league that was prepared to take on Randolph's rediculous contract at that time even if it needed a power forward) and it opened up a spot for LaMarcus Aldridge - 2 things Portland was desperately trying to accomplish. Did Isiah actually think there were any other destinations Portland was prepared to send him? Isiah was the one holding the cards here, not Kevin Pritchard, and he did nothing with the leverage he had. ---- "Dan Dickau and Freddy Jones huh? No Webster? No Rodriguez? No thanks. No deal Pritch... We're OK with developing David Lee. Thanks for calling." It wouldn't have been too long before Pritchard called back to renegotiate something else...

B) The Blazers have such tremendous depth at both the wing and the point that they easily could've included one or the other in the deal with no problem. And you know Isiah had interest in Webster - Webster was part of the original rumors we were hearing. Just pisses me off that Isiah allowed himself to get played the way he did....

--------

Anyway, nobody else around here thinks Josh Shipp would make a nice 2-guard in the NBA? Definitely worth someone's late 1st rounder/early 2nd rounder IMO. Sergio Rodriguez and Portland's 2nd rounder that we turn into Josh Shipp for some package like Nate/Randolph Morris or Balkman/Morris is definitely something I could see happening if the Knicks ever came calling.





[Edited by - finestrg on 01-27-2008 04:25 AM]

i friggin agree with you 1000$%... them expiring contracts were completely usless cuz as usual the guy had no continggecny plans to use them to his advantage afte rthe fact... always getting p;layed... damn, i'm fuuuuuugged... better stop posting now.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
McK1
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1/27/2008  10:22 AM
I feel some maybe wrongly assuming that Pritchard made the call to Isiah and not the other way around.

forgotten in the IT could've got more banter is

a) Having the 1st pick - ODEN - gave Portland leverage in ALL trade scenarios.

b) Frye for Randolph from a talent standpoint is heavily tilted in NY's favor.

c) they took back Franchise's contract which WAS NOT an ending contract nor a player they wanted on their roster in the deal.

d) Nichols was also a part of the deal. Not Portland's fault Isiah, Nichols, and Nichols' agent weren't on the same page as far as how his place on the roster would be handled.

e) Miami was also in the mix for Randolph so there was COMPETITION.


[Edited by - McK1 on 27-01-2008 10:23 AM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
VDesai
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1/27/2008  4:50 PM
I agree, Martell over the expirings was the way to go.
babyKnicks
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1/27/2008  4:56 PM
the trade has allowed lee to emerge and zach is a HUGE upgrade at the position.

We also gained fred jones (expiring?) and zach is still young.

It also enables us to consider moving Curry.

Win win for both teams.
Let's go Knicks. That's amare
Travla
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1/27/2008  5:00 PM
Zach trade was a good thing. We got rid Frye and Fran, we got Zach who is a hard worker and likes to play ball. No he's not a defensive genius but he plays hard and he was an upgrade over any forward that we had. He can score almost at will, he's competitive and he gives a damn. Maybe some of his determination will rub off on Curry. Zach has even shown a willingness to share the ball. I liked the Zach trade all along, I would get rid of Curry if he doesn't learn to play team ball, get some freakin rebounds and play defense.
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TheGame
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1/28/2008  3:58 AM
I agree with the last comments. The Zach trade makes prefect sense if we get rid of Curry. Even without trading Curry, I think the trade was a positive.
Trust the Process
arkrud
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1/28/2008  12:59 PM
On winning team he is 9/9 man for 20 min from the bench.
He is OK but severely overprized.
No defense, no shot blocking, no team concept, no poise, and no brain.
Give him role he deserves and he will blow and will go crashing the bars...
One waste (Fran) traded for another waste.

[Edited by - arkrud on 01-28-2008 1:00 PM]

[Edited by - arkrud on 01-28-2008 1:00 PM]
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MS
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1/28/2008  2:21 PM
The only way this trade makes sense is if we had someone like Tyson Chandler who we could have got for Frye In the offseason. This trade made zero sense because zach is not a max player and we didn't need the two extra years of salary, he doesn't make us a playoff team and kills the cap so how.

If you wanted to buy out Francis you could have found a way to move Frye, Collins and Jefferies for Artest in the offseason. Sacramento would have taken that deal, because Mardy's value was higher.
TMS
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1/28/2008  11:49 PM
i'd much rather see D Lee starting games & not have Zach's contract on our books for the next 4 years... that's just me.
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bitty41
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1/29/2008  9:53 AM
I'm sticking to my orginal assertation Zach is very talented and has all the skills to be all-star caliber player in this league. I think with the right displine he could achieve that caliber of play. There aren't many players of his skill and ability that are available so giving him up for scrubs is just putting the Knicks back at square one in terms of bad salary with even worse talent. B/c if we make no more moves for big contracts in the next 2 years the Knicks will at the very least have nearly 30 mil coming off the books.
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Re-examining the Zach Randolph trade for a sec.
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