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Keys to winning with these guys....seriously
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EnySpree
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1/9/2008  8:46 AM
I think its incredibly clear that Jamal Crawford is the Knicks best player and team leader. We gotta stop denying it. He's inconsistant but the Knicks are deadly because of what he brings. He has the most deadly crossover in the entire league. He's taking a lot of those moves to the rack this year. He is our go to guy out on the perimeter.

Marbs has quietly letting the game come to him. He's been coaching a lot more if you watch the games since he's been back. You see him explaining **** to Curry and Zach with the guys listening and nodding with understanding. He's also been finding his teamates instead of just trying to draw fouls. Last night I thought Marbs was gonna just bulldog his way to the foul line but he took an extra step and dumped it off to the always cutting David lee, who put in the quickest 2 handed dunk I have ever seen. Marbs has to do that all day long. Making that pass builds momentum and gets other guys involved. It gets the crowd buzzing and the rest of the team hype. Its also just as deflating to the opposing just like a monster dunk.

Q rich got benched. Hallefreakinlouya!!! He brings nothing. Jared is no better but his length and versitility can't be denied. His minutes in the teens is about right for him. Knicks should really try to get Wally Z. He's been shooting it great this year and the Knicks need him @ the 3.

Zach was reduced to a 9/9 tonight. Its all good. Isiah has to get in Zachs head that the Knicks still need him. Zach has to look for his shot when the Knicks need him to. Pass the ball and find his teamates. This is currys show and he is the sidekick. That doesn't mean that Zach isn't important. Zach has to own the glass like usual and be ready to turn it on when the Knicks need him to.

David Lee's role off the bench is fine if everything else falls right. The Knicks were very effective last night with zach, lee, and curry for a stretch. Lee should get his minutes there and @ the 4 and 5 too.

Nate flirted with a triple double...he got 7pts,7rebs and 10 assists. If Marbs can be what he's been since he's been back then Nate is awesome to bring in as the 3rd guard.

If isiah wants to improve he's got to do as I ****in say.
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arkrud
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1/9/2008  8:58 AM
Isiah cannot help himself.
You forget that in first place he should act as a coach not GM.
Q was out because of the elbow and Zach because of the foul trouble. This gives us a win.
Marbs played like 6th man because this is where he should be.

To make the above work they need to lose 5 in a row to get down to the earth again.
They are too high on themselves and this is not how the bad team like this can win.

Also the main question is - why they need to win? To get 30-35 wins instead of 15 and have 12th pick instead of 3rd? Why?


[Edited by - arkrud on 01-09-2008 08:59 AM]
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
TMS
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1/9/2008  9:12 AM
i'm for giving Balkman & Chandler all the minutes at SF... Jefferies simply doesn't impact games... w/Balkman u have the chance that he's going to be the energizer in games w/his explosive dunks & hustle & score easy points in transition... w/Chandler u give urself the opportunity to see exactly what you spent your 1st round draft pick on & determine if the guy can be part of a longterm solution at the SF position at the very least.

agree w/u on Jamal completely... he is our best scorer & despite his shortcomings on the D he is our most dangerous weapon on offense.

if only Nate & Marbs can play the point like they did tonight on a daily basis... they were both very effective when they were in the game & made some huge plays down the stretch.

Curry & Zach co-existing effectively is not in the cards my man... we've seen it over & over this year, when 1 guy is effective the other seems to become an afterthought... we need to bring in someone who can play off the ball & still be productive on both ends of the floor... don't get me wrong, Zach's 9 & 9 is good production for a supplemental role, but we need a guy who can bring those types of #'s while playing some defense in the paint to pair up w/either Zach or Curry in order to move forward & improve as a unit... besides, D Lee brings those #'s every night regardless.
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EnySpree
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1/9/2008  9:15 AM
Why they gonna win fo? because Isiah said so...dolan won't let go, not tryin to trade zbo. The playoffs is no mo, the chaos is fo sho. The quick fix is cleaning up those dirt ass windo's. open up and let the wind blo. Blind like they need bifocos. Players gettin gassed like sunoco. Loungin like in alcapoco. Got fans buggin out loco.
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Cosmic
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1/9/2008  9:36 AM
While the win was nice I have to say you cannot analyze last night's game and find a true cure for this team's ailments. You won't find anything realistic that could turn around the season or reverse a 9-24 record.

Here's why:

Crawford shot 10-21 which he rarely does.
Curry had 4 blocks which he might do once a season.
We only had 13 turnovers which is an amazing accomplishment for this team.
Zach took only 9 shots, a rarity, allowing Eddy to go 11-14 from the field.
We shot 50% from the field as a team another rarity.


If you want to summarize it: As has been talked about before and something I've emphasized on numerous occasions: In order for this Knick team to win they have to be lights out shooting on the offense with limited turnovers and hope the other team screws up (Bulls shot 44%).

This is not a winning formula. It will happen from time to time in our favor. It is not something you can learn from or build on because these are unrealistic achievements - especially if you must do them every night to win which this Knick team must in order to compete.

They're unrealistic demands and therefore you cannot use last night as any source for future success.

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TMS
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1/9/2008  9:55 AM
agreed Cosmic... the team isn't going to play perfectly like that on a consistent basis... we've all seen how inconsistent this team is... we gotta change the culture & change up some of the players on this team before we start expecting any real longterm results.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Cosmic
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1/9/2008  10:02 AM
Posted by TMS:

agreed Cosmic... the team isn't going to play perfectly like that on a consistent basis... we've all seen how inconsistent this team is... we gotta change the culture & change up some of the players on this team before we start expecting any real longterm results.

I agree and if there IS one thing you can pull from last night's game it's: Even if we aren't very good: We're better off feeding Curry the ball and ignoring Zach Randolph.

If Zach would be happy getting only 5-9 shots a game? Great!!! Yet, he won't be, so I think it's obvious that was a bad trade. It crushed whatever limited chemistry the team had built last year.

I guess, secondary, Jamal does have the tools to be a productive player..and you would hope he suffers a blow to the head that ingrains this into his psyche as the primary player not the secondary player....but I'm not holding my breath. (we could go down this road for a number of players here, but no point, they are who they are and they will continue to be those players)


Again, at best this was going to be a .500 team and that's still not acceptable but it's damn sure brighter than today's Randolph-Tanked team.

Ah well....hopefully the proper changes will be made the turn this franchise around. I don't think it happens with Isiah in charge though. *grimaces*



Regardless, for now, I'll live with the win....I enjoyed it. Guess I got about 9.5 hours left until that mood changes.
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TMS
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1/9/2008  10:08 AM
LOL... dude, when i look at the next 5 games i'm projecting a loss in every one of em... at least for 1 day this week we have a tiny little reprieve from the constant losing.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Cosmic
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1/9/2008  10:12 AM
Posted by TMS:

LOL... dude, when i look at the next 5 games i'm projecting a loss in every one of em... at least for 1 day this week we have a tiny little reprieve from the constant losing.

You're not the only one. I think the 3rd and final win of this month will be against the Heat.


When I saw this month's schedule I picked the Kings, Bulls(last night), and Heat as the only winnable games. I was a little off (Kings).

Let's see what disturbing mess they hand us tonight.


If no TMAC, and if Aaron (who?) Brooks doesn't go off, maybe we have a chance to win? lol....
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TMS
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1/9/2008  10:16 AM
who, me?

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
JonsTintedTails
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1/9/2008  10:21 AM
we had only 13 turnovers because Zach was in foul trouble and out of the game.
franco12
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1/9/2008  10:24 AM
for all the talk about our dominating front court, and the unstoppable forces of Curry and Zach and the pound it into submission, this team cannot win without amazing plays from Crawford and Nate.
djsunyc
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1/9/2008  10:26 AM
about 1/2 of our wins are against nj and chicago.

the keys to winning is playing nj and chicago at least 30 times each.
franco12
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1/9/2008  10:29 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

about 1/2 of our wins are against nj and chicago.

the keys to winning is playing nj and chicago at least 30 times each.

and when the other team isn't at full strength (kidd)!
martin
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1/9/2008  10:30 AM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by djsunyc:

about 1/2 of our wins are against nj and chicago.

the keys to winning is playing nj and chicago at least 30 times each.

and when the other team isn't at full strength (kidd)!

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tkf
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1/9/2008  10:32 AM
Posted by Cosmic:

While the win was nice I have to say you cannot analyze last night's game and find a true cure for this team's ailments. You won't find anything realistic that could turn around the season or reverse a 9-24 record.

Here's why:

Crawford shot 10-21 which he rarely does.
Curry had 4 blocks which he might do once a season.
We only had 13 turnovers which is an amazing accomplishment for this team.
Zach took only 9 shots, a rarity, allowing Eddy to go 11-14 from the field.
We shot 50% from the field as a team another rarity.


If you want to summarize it: As has been talked about before and something I've emphasized on numerous occasions: In order for this Knick team to win they have to be lights out shooting on the offense with limited turnovers and hope the other team screws up (Bulls shot 44%).

This is not a winning formula. It will happen from time to time in our favor. It is not something you can learn from or build on because these are unrealistic achievements - especially if you must do them every night to win which this Knick team must in order to compete.

They're unrealistic demands and therefore you cannot use last night as any source for future success.

exactly, but what this shows more, is that when not the first option and when guys like curry and marbury do their jobs, jamal is a great second and third option. he can score his points without being the focal point.... But again, all of the stars and moons have to align for the knicks to have games like this, so I don't see this as a formula, or a realistic formula for the knicks to win.... that is the problem, curry will not block 4 shots in a game again, anytime soon, and crawford shooting damn near 50% is an abberation... but I will take the win, these types of performances are rare..

Benching Q is a must, at least to save knicks fans eyes... Zach.... ah, trade him. Please.. let him get his shot quota in elsewhere...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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1/9/2008  10:36 AM
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by TMS:

agreed Cosmic... the team isn't going to play perfectly like that on a consistent basis... we've all seen how inconsistent this team is... we gotta change the culture & change up some of the players on this team before we start expecting any real longterm results.

I agree and if there IS one thing you can pull from last night's game it's: Even if we aren't very good: We're better off feeding Curry the ball and ignoring Zach Randolph.

If Zach would be happy getting only 5-9 shots a game? Great!!! Yet, he won't be, so I think it's obvious that was a bad trade. It crushed whatever limited chemistry the team had built last year.

I guess, secondary, Jamal does have the tools to be a productive player..and you would hope he suffers a blow to the head that ingrains this into his psyche as the primary player not the secondary player....but I'm not holding my breath. (we could go down this road for a number of players here, but no point, they are who they are and they will continue to be those players)


Again, at best this was going to be a .500 team and that's still not acceptable but it's damn sure brighter than today's Randolph-Tanked team.

Ah well....hopefully the proper changes will be made the turn this franchise around. I don't think it happens with Isiah in charge though. *grimaces*



Regardless, for now, I'll live with the win....I enjoyed it. Guess I got about 9.5 hours left until that mood changes.


exactly!! and I will give you two examples in the game where zach will just not live without getting his "quota" of shots filled..

Curry was rolling, zach came down ran to the post, demanded the ball, curry had the ball up top with nowhere to pass, you can tell that the play was now busted with eddy trying to feed the post that zach was hijacked by zach... the play ended up in jamal forcing up a contested three as the clock ran down...

another play, nate came down, you could tell the knicks were trying to set up and run a play, zach ran to the left side, begging for the ball in the post, nate looked at zach, and just backed up, didn't pass him the ball, you could see zach's body language, he didn't like that. I was proud of nate...

Listen, zachs teamates are not that dumb, they know zach will beg for the ball, even if it breaks plays and when he gets it, he is a reluctant passer. This guy needs to go. I rather give his minutes to lee and then see what the hell morris can do... I mean we are 9-24, why the hell not?
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
K22
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1/9/2008  10:43 AM
Posted by tkf:

Listen, zachs teamates are not that dumb, they know zach will beg for the ball, even if it breaks plays and when he gets it, he is a reluctant passer. This guy needs to go. I rather give his minutes to lee and then see what the hell morris can do... I mean we are 9-24, why the hell not?

This is why:
If your team's playing better, you can kind of take some more chances with the young guys. But with the situation that we're in right now, you want to try and win as many games as you possibly can to get your team moving.
LINK


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Masterplan
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1/9/2008  11:18 AM
Posted by JonsTintedTails:

we had only 13 turnovers because Zach was in foul trouble and out of the game.

he still put up a third of those TOs
Panos
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1/9/2008  12:02 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

I think its incredibly clear that Jamal Crawford is the Knicks best player and team leader. We gotta stop denying it. He's inconsistant but the Knicks are deadly because of what he brings. He has the most deadly crossover in the entire league. He's taking a lot of those moves to the rack this year. He is our go to guy out on the perimeter.

Hold on. You lost me already. "the Knicks are deadly"?!
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