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Measuring Chandler Based on Practice Performance
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PresIke
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1/2/2008  1:29 PM
So BT says the word is that Chandler is not doing it in practice?

Well, even if that's true, then it does not necessarily mean that this is a tremendous indictment of his character because fans should remember that a certain former Knick star also suffered similar criticism and was reduced to barely in rotation status...

Marcus Camby

Remember how Marcus was barely even in the rotation in 1998-99 under Van Gundy? I believe the word was that Marcus' poor practice habits kept him out.

Individuals respond to different approaches and situations in unique ways, which is always a challenge for a manager/leader. The best managers know how to get the most out of every person under their tutelage.

Some people do better in practice, but not in games (see Nate Robinson thus far), and some get more up for games than practice, no matter how much it means getting PT. Some folks just don't respond well to certain levels of competition for PT while some do. I mean this team is losing anyway with few remaining in house ideas left, so maybe Chandler, and perhaps Morris should get some burn in real games to gain experience and see what they can offer.

Unless Isiah/Dolan are so afraid of poor performances from these players and the effect it could have on decreasing their mostly unknown value at this point, which could be part of the equation. However, this reeks of the fear based logic we need to purge.

Chandler's alleged lack of motivation could also be attributed to the team's low morale. We have seen several players on the roster play increasingly below levels we are accustomed to. Some may be able to persevere, like Crawford and Lee (lately), but some who may have more conflicting relationships with the coach could be performing below expectations -- at least in part -- due to one, or a combination of factors. It could be increased lack of respect for Isiah as a coach stemming from the Marbury AWOL situation, personality differences, inconsistent pt, public ridicule, etc. Even Crawford and Lee may be less affected because their roles have changed less. Lee's has changed more than Jamal, yet he was a still bench guy last year, and seems to have displayed less ego than the average NBA player.

I suspect The Knicks could use a formal needs assessment and the entire organization should have a complete program evaluation performed, to see what's helping and what's not. If it ain't being done I'd be more than happy to do it. Maybe I should send them a proposal...haha.
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SupremeCommander
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1/2/2008  1:33 PM
The situations surrounding Marcus Camby and Wilson Chandler are literally nothing alike...
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
franco12
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1/2/2008  1:36 PM
who is bt?

the thing with chandler- he showed it summer league- now, who knows, but maybe he busted his butt the early part of the year, and he's witnessed Jeffries & Q getting time in front of him - he's probably better than both combined, and he is thus thinking, doesn't matter what he does, as long as Q& Jeffries are in front of him, he has no hope of getting time, so why kill himself in practice...
BlueSeats
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1/2/2008  1:41 PM
Pres, I agree with the premise that there is a funk in the air that is bringing everyone's performance down. The question is when can we purge the trash who can clear the air?
martin
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1/2/2008  1:41 PM
Posted by franco12:

who is bt?

the thing with chandler- he showed it summer league- now, who knows, but maybe he busted his butt the early part of the year, and he's witnessed Jeffries & Q getting time in front of him - he's probably better than both combined, and he is thus thinking, doesn't matter what he does, as long as Q& Jeffries are in front of him, he has no hope of getting time, so why kill himself in practice...

true true.
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TrueBlue
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1/2/2008  1:49 PM
Posted by franco12:

who is bt?

the thing with chandler- he showed it summer league- now, who knows, but maybe he busted his butt the early part of the year, and he's witnessed Jeffries & Q getting time in front of him - he's probably better than both combined, and he is thus thinking, doesn't matter what he does, as long as Q& Jeffries are in front of him, he has no hope of getting time, so why kill himself in practice...


He could also be affected by the Nichols treatment. Like...."I need to sit here an STFU before I SAY UGH tells me to go play in Europe or sends me down to the NBDL"
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VDesai
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1/2/2008  1:55 PM
Chandler's alleged lack of motivation could also be attributed to the team's low morale

This is what I've been saying for the last few days. How can you make any kind of eval on this team when most of the squad has mailed it in? Most of these guys are so down on the whole system here that you can't really figure out what's going on unless there's a big change at the helm.
VDesai
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1/2/2008  1:55 PM
Anyway, that's why I think if he doesn't play here and there's no objective to play him he should really go to the NBDL. Get him into a different enviornement, where he's going to be looked at as a key player and lets see how he performs. Same with Morris.
Masterplan
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1/2/2008  2:04 PM
Posted by VDesai:
Chandler's alleged lack of motivation could also be attributed to the team's low morale

This is what I've been saying for the last few days. How can you make any kind of eval on this team when most of the squad has mailed it in? Most of these guys are so down on the whole system here that you can't really figure out what's going on unless there's a big change at the helm.

i generally agree, and what's more, we only have one vague report that he may be underperforming in practice. however, the guy was criticized leading up to the draft for having a poor "motor." hopefully he and the rest of the team (whoever's left) can be rejuvenated next year under different management. but you have to find the report a little troubling, for what it's worth.

[Edited by - Masterplan on 01-02-2008 2:06 PM]
Panos
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1/2/2008  2:20 PM
EnySpree
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1/2/2008  2:36 PM
BT = Blacktail magazine

The article must be in the next issue. DJ's store hasn't gotten the new shipment in yet.
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JohnWallace44
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1/2/2008  2:40 PM
I don't buy into this. He played hard in Summer League games that didn't matter.

Plus... if he went out there and played half speed, would you be able to notice? Nobody else is out there going 100%.
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arkrud
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1/2/2008  2:47 PM
Posted by franco12:

who is bt?

the thing with chandler- he showed it summer league- now, who knows, but maybe he busted his butt the early part of the year, and he's witnessed Jeffries & Q getting time in front of him - he's probably better than both combined, and he is thus thinking, doesn't matter what he does, as long as Q& Jeffries are in front of him, he has no hope of getting time, so why kill himself in practice...

I always wonder for what these guys are getting paid.
For inches?
If player cannot play he must do the best he can in practice.
And not for Isiah (who cares about this loser) but for himself.
If he is not doing this it talks volumes about him as a person and as a player.
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TMS
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1/2/2008  3:09 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

BT = Blacktail magazine

The article must be in the next issue. DJ's store hasn't gotten the new shipment in yet.

lol... franco, don't go out & buy that issue looking for this article... unless u already have it in the little nightstand next to your bed with the kleenex & jergens that is... in which case i don't wanna know



BT = Brandon Tierney - he used to do the postgame show on MSG after Knicks games & has his own sports radio show on 1050 ESPN.
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franco12
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1/2/2008  4:43 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by EnySpree:

BT = Blacktail magazine

The article must be in the next issue. DJ's store hasn't gotten the new shipment in yet.

lol... franco, don't go out & buy that issue looking for this article... unless u already have it in the little nightstand next to your bed with the kleenex & jergens that is... in which case i don't wanna know



BT = Brandon Tierney - he used to do the postgame show on MSG after Knicks games & has his own sports radio show on 1050 ESPN.

thanks! the bt mag site is still trying to open up- I kind wondered when I googled it, why would they be talking about b ball.
franco12
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1/2/2008  4:45 PM
Posted by arkrud:
Posted by franco12:

who is bt?

the thing with chandler- he showed it summer league- now, who knows, but maybe he busted his butt the early part of the year, and he's witnessed Jeffries & Q getting time in front of him - he's probably better than both combined, and he is thus thinking, doesn't matter what he does, as long as Q& Jeffries are in front of him, he has no hope of getting time, so why kill himself in practice...

I always wonder for what these guys are getting paid.
For inches?
If player cannot play he must do the best he can in practice.
And not for Isiah (who cares about this loser) but for himself.
If he is not doing this it talks volumes about him as a person and as a player.

I agree - but he's a person and not everyone is motivated by money. Some folks need recognition - and if he has busted it, and Isiah has basically said- no, your not starter material, then I personally would down shift a gear- especially if all the vets are talking about 'when is dolan going fire isiah'
subzero0
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1/2/2008  4:49 PM
Posted by SupremeCommander:

The situations surrounding Marcus Camby and Wilson Chandler are literally nothing alike...

Really? You dont remember how bad we were doing that year? Does the headine "Sinking and Stinking" ring any bells? You dont remember reports of fans threatening to kill van gundy if they caught him on the street because he refused to play Marcus Camby until very late in the season?
playa2
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1/2/2008  5:23 PM
Posted by PresIke:

So BT says the word is that Chandler is not doing it in practice?

Well, even if that's true, then it does not necessarily mean that this is a tremendous indictment of his character because fans should remember that a certain former Knick star also suffered similar criticism and was reduced to barely in rotation status...

Marcus Camby

I agree with your assessment 100%

Remember how Marcus was barely even in the rotation in 1998-99 under Van Gundy? I believe the word was that Marcus' poor practice habits kept him out.

Individuals respond to different approaches and situations in unique ways, which is always a challenge for a manager/leader. The best managers know how to get the most out of every person under their tutelage.

Some people do better in practice, but not in games (see Nate Robinson thus far), and some get more up for games than practice, no matter how much it means getting PT. Some folks just don't respond well to certain levels of competition for PT while some do. I mean this team is losing anyway with few remaining in house ideas left, so maybe Chandler, and perhaps Morris should get some burn in real games to gain experience and see what they can offer.

Unless Isiah/Dolan are so afraid of poor performances from these players and the effect it could have on decreasing their mostly unknown value at this point, which could be part of the equation. However, this reeks of the fear based logic we need to purge.

Chandler's alleged lack of motivation could also be attributed to the team's low morale. We have seen several players on the roster play increasingly below levels we are accustomed to. Some may be able to persevere, like Crawford and Lee (lately), but some who may have more conflicting relationships with the coach could be performing below expectations -- at least in part -- due to one, or a combination of factors. It could be increased lack of respect for Isiah as a coach stemming from the Marbury AWOL situation, personality differences, inconsistent pt, public ridicule, etc. Even Crawford and Lee may be less affected because their roles have changed less. Lee's has changed more than Jamal, yet he was a still bench guy last year, and seems to have displayed less ego than the average NBA player.

I suspect The Knicks could use a formal needs assessment and the entire organization should have a complete program evaluation performed, to see what's helping and what's not. If it ain't being done I'd be more than happy to do it. Maybe I should send them a proposal...haha.

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
nixluva
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1/2/2008  5:43 PM
Chandler spoke like a kid who was going to get a shot to play late in the summer. He was talking about trying to shoot for a ROY mention. Not that he was ever really gonna have a shot at it, but I get the feeling that he had some expectation of being on the floor at some point and proving he should get more time. If I was him, i'd think I had a shot too, just looking around the lockerroom at the other guys at SF.

With a team in the dumps like this team, there's no excuse for not taking a look at what a player can give you. Mardy didn't get any burn last year and when we needed him he stepped up several levels from what we had seen up to that point. Balkman was in a similar kind of boat, tho he did get some spotty minutes and showed the kind of hustle and energy we need. Now all of a sudden the guy looks disinterested. He was hyped and full of confidence in Summer league and it doesn't matter what kind of competition he faced, he was showing far more energy than he's shown this year. There has to be a trickle down effect with the poor attitude on this team.

Isiah hasn't shown any ability to pull the team out of this and at this point it seems like a failed experiment. Even if the team should play better at some point, it's not likely to erase all of the bad feelings and mistakes Isiah has made this year. The guy came into this year with some good will built up with his players and then he seems to have used that all up.
SupremeCommander
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1/2/2008  8:11 PM
Posted by subzero0:
Posted by SupremeCommander:

The situations surrounding Marcus Camby and Wilson Chandler are literally nothing alike...

Really? You dont remember how bad we were doing that year? Does the headine "Sinking and Stinking" ring any bells? You dont remember reports of fans threatening to kill van gundy if they caught him on the street because he refused to play Marcus Camby until very late in the season?

Please forgive me if I don't feel compelled to go in great detail in this response, but some points to consider: (1) Camby was in his third year when traded to the team and was the second overall pick whereas any other team would have taken Chandler in the second round (2) JVG didn't want Camby; JVG still wanted Oakley (3) there was dissension between management and the coach. You could argue that holds true here, but that's because Isiah is a moron (4) the rotation was a mess due to the strike and each game meant more, meaning JVG was going to the well with players he trusted
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
Measuring Chandler Based on Practice Performance

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