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Winning sucks
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FrenchKnicks
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12/20/2007  4:18 AM
I have to admit that when I woke up this morning and checked the score from last night's game, I was really disappointed. Geez, a WIN against the Cavs... damn, I thought that was a sure loss

The Knicks have really messed up my mind. I just don't know how to react anymore. We have a mediocre team, and unless we get a couple of key injuries (Crawford, Zach), we'll most likely get stupid #10 pick again

I HATE THIS TEAM, I REALLY DO. I'm a hater now
AUTOADVERT
TheGame
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12/20/2007  5:57 AM
If they string together 3-4 more wins, then this win over the Cavs would be a good thing. I am a firm believer in trying to win. We could have the worst record in the league and still get the 4th pick or we could bust our butt and fight out of this slump, just miss the playoffs and still get the 1st pick. The lottery makes everything a crapshoot, so we might as well try to get rid of this atmosphere of losing and try to get the team on the right track so that this is not just another wasted year.
Trust the Process
arkrud
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12/20/2007  10:26 AM
I want to see Knicks win not the other team lose.
For now I saw only one game close to this - Utah win.
Cavs was supper-crappy yesterday. They have James + big... Zero at best.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
GKFv2
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12/20/2007  2:39 PM
Posted by TheGame:

If they string together 3-4 more wins, then this win over the Cavs would be a good thing. I am a firm believer in trying to win. We could have the worst record in the league and still get the 4th pick or we could bust our butt and fight out of this slump, just miss the playoffs and still get the 1st pick. The lottery makes everything a crapshoot, so we might as well try to get rid of this atmosphere of losing and try to get the team on the right track so that this is not just another wasted year.

Yeah...no.

You must be joking? What incentive does this team have in making the playoffs? Isiah surviving forever? We're going nowhere. Unless you enjoy mediocrity...
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
toodarkmark
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12/20/2007  2:43 PM
As a Knicks fan of over 20 years, I want them to lose all 82 games this year by 30 points. I want to see 2000 people in MSG. Chanting "Fire Isiah". I want to see Dolan depressed and give up on having anything to do with this team. I want to see Isiah fired. I want the #1 pick. Thats all.
I don't care what people think. People are stupid. - Charles Barkley
babyKnicks
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12/20/2007  2:45 PM
I have to disagree and say I hope they learned from the tongue lashing and play hard from here on out and the number of wins is irrevelant.
Let's go Knicks. That's amare
TheGame
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12/20/2007  3:30 PM
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by TheGame:

If they string together 3-4 more wins, then this win over the Cavs would be a good thing. I am a firm believer in trying to win. We could have the worst record in the league and still get the 4th pick or we could bust our butt and fight out of this slump, just miss the playoffs and still get the 1st pick. The lottery makes everything a crapshoot, so we might as well try to get rid of this atmosphere of losing and try to get the team on the right track so that this is not just another wasted year.

Yeah...no.

You must be joking? What incentive does this team have in making the playoffs? Isiah surviving forever? We're going nowhere. Unless you enjoy mediocrity...

The incentive is to build an environment of winning. People complain about the players quitting but then half the people on this board want the Knicks to tank. I would rather the team strive to work out its issues and start developing a winning environment. I would like guys like Lee, Balkman, Collins, Chandler, and Nate to be here awhile because I believe those guys can be winners. I would rather them learn how to overcome a bad situation rather than learn how to tank games and hope for a friendly ping-pong bounce.

Trust the Process
GKFv2
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12/20/2007  3:39 PM
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by TheGame:

If they string together 3-4 more wins, then this win over the Cavs would be a good thing. I am a firm believer in trying to win. We could have the worst record in the league and still get the 4th pick or we could bust our butt and fight out of this slump, just miss the playoffs and still get the 1st pick. The lottery makes everything a crapshoot, so we might as well try to get rid of this atmosphere of losing and try to get the team on the right track so that this is not just another wasted year.

Yeah...no.

You must be joking? What incentive does this team have in making the playoffs? Isiah surviving forever? We're going nowhere. Unless you enjoy mediocrity...

The incentive is to build an environment of winning. People complain about the players quitting but then half the people on this board want the Knicks to tank. I would rather the team strive to work out its issues and start developing a winning environment. I would like guys like Lee, Balkman, Collins, Chandler, and Nate to be here awhile because I believe those guys can be winners. I would rather them learn how to overcome a bad situation rather than learn how to tank games and hope for a friendly ping-pong bounce.

I would rather we lose, fire Isiah, get a top pick, and build towards a championship. That wont happen if we win 35 games again.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
SupremeCommander
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12/20/2007  3:44 PM
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by TheGame:

If they string together 3-4 more wins, then this win over the Cavs would be a good thing. I am a firm believer in trying to win. We could have the worst record in the league and still get the 4th pick or we could bust our butt and fight out of this slump, just miss the playoffs and still get the 1st pick. The lottery makes everything a crapshoot, so we might as well try to get rid of this atmosphere of losing and try to get the team on the right track so that this is not just another wasted year.

Yeah...no.

You must be joking? What incentive does this team have in making the playoffs? Isiah surviving forever? We're going nowhere. Unless you enjoy mediocrity...

The incentive is to build an environment of winning. People complain about the players quitting but then half the people on this board want the Knicks to tank. I would rather the team strive to work out its issues and start developing a winning environment. I would like guys like Lee, Balkman, Collins, Chandler, and Nate to be here awhile because I believe those guys can be winners. I would rather them learn how to overcome a bad situation rather than learn how to tank games and hope for a friendly ping-pong bounce.

Normally, I'd agree with you, but I really want a decade of David Lee cutting hard to the rack with Derrick Rose passing, for the swishing and dishing.
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
CDB
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12/20/2007  3:50 PM
Posted by toodarkmark:

As a Knicks fan of over 20 years, I want them to lose all 82 games this year by 30 points. I want to see 2000 people in MSG. Chanting "Fire Isiah". I want to see Dolan depressed and give up on having anything to do with this team. I want to see Isiah fired. I want the #1 pick. Thats all.

Well that sucks for you seeming that we have 8 wins.

Also having the worst record doesn't guarentee you the #1 pcik in the draft, this aint football. I.E. Boston and Memphis this year, Boston in 97, etc.
"I wipe my @ss with your feelings" - Tony Soprano
tkf
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12/20/2007  3:51 PM
I don't like losing and tanking. And losing only to get a lottery pick and still have Isiah here, does nothing for me. I rather win, and develop a winning culture... while still getting rid of Isiah...

The thing is, that win or lose, Isiah is going nowhere. dolan is stuck to this guy.. if the blowout losses and chants haven't moved dolan, then what is another losing season going to do...?
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
kam77
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12/20/2007  4:00 PM
This team minus Curry and Marbury is playoff-worthy.

Is that enough for some fans? No. It never will be.

But the only real goal the team has is to make the playoffs.

Guys in the locker room aren't looking to tank.

They try to win.

The crowd cheered lustily last night.

Most Knick fans just want to see Wins.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
Bonn1997
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12/20/2007  4:14 PM
Posted by CDB:
Posted by toodarkmark:

As a Knicks fan of over 20 years, I want them to lose all 82 games this year by 30 points. I want to see 2000 people in MSG. Chanting "Fire Isiah". I want to see Dolan depressed and give up on having anything to do with this team. I want to see Isiah fired. I want the #1 pick. Thats all.

Well that sucks for you seeming that we have 8 wins.

Also having the worst record doesn't guarentee you the #1 pcik in the draft, this aint football. I.E. Boston and Memphis this year, Boston in 97, etc.
It guarantees you a top 4 pick and gives you the best odds of getting the #1 pick. Here's a really tough question: Would you rather have the best odds of getting the #1 pick, or lower odds of getting the #1 pick?
BlueSeats
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12/20/2007  4:20 PM
Posted by kam77:

This team minus Curry and Marbury is playoff-worthy.

Is that enough for some fans? No. It never will be.

But the only real goal the team has is to make the playoffs.

Guys in the locker room aren't looking to tank.

They try to win.

The crowd cheered lustily last night.

Most Knick fans just want to see Wins.

Just for once can we see the team actually make the playoffs before we declare them playoff worthy?

Truly being playoff worthy means they have the ability to take coaching, play through boos, win in spite of injuries, compliment each other's game, etc, etc. But if you mean only on paper, then they are more than playoff worthy with Marbury and Curry too. But...

Klytus
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12/20/2007  4:32 PM
Posted by TheGame:

If they string together 3-4 more wins, then this win over the Cavs would be a good thing. I am a firm believer in trying to win. We could have the worst record in the league and still get the 4th pick or we could bust our butt and fight out of this slump, just miss the playoffs and still get the 1st pick. The lottery makes everything a crapshoot, so we might as well try to get rid of this atmosphere of losing and try to get the team on the right track so that this is not just another wasted year.


You do not have good management skills. Being mediocre or in the middle of the worst thing to be in basketball. You're either very good or very bad. Nothing get's accomplished here with 38 wins and an 8th seed. Getting swept by Boston and losing every game by 25 points is nothing to build on. I understand you're sick of losing and want to change the culture. I agree with that. But you're not going to accomplish this with THESE players. These players are losers. Do not be fooled.
LongIslandKnicksFan
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12/20/2007  5:46 PM
The Knicks win by losing if that makes any sense. The more losses, the better. Isiah will no longer be here hopefully, we'd have a high draft pick and then we'd suck still until changes are made. Dolan does not know how to run a team, thats for sure.
TheGame
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12/20/2007  6:40 PM
Posted by Klytus:
Posted by TheGame:

If they string together 3-4 more wins, then this win over the Cavs would be a good thing. I am a firm believer in trying to win. We could have the worst record in the league and still get the 4th pick or we could bust our butt and fight out of this slump, just miss the playoffs and still get the 1st pick. The lottery makes everything a crapshoot, so we might as well try to get rid of this atmosphere of losing and try to get the team on the right track so that this is not just another wasted year.


You do not have good management skills. Being mediocre or in the middle of the worst thing to be in basketball. You're either very good or very bad. Nothing get's accomplished here with 38 wins and an 8th seed. Getting swept by Boston and losing every game by 25 points is nothing to build on. I understand you're sick of losing and want to change the culture. I agree with that. But you're not going to accomplish this with THESE players. These players are losers. Do not be fooled.

Listen, I don't have any delusions that it is likely this team can make the playoffs. But I think that Lee, Balkman, Nate, and our other players have seen enough losing. If we only win 10 more games, so be it. But I would rather them win 10 more games trying to compete and win rather than simply tanking. You have too limited a view of a GM's options, which reflects on your own management skills. The biggest problem we have is that our players have low trade value right now. Lee is the only player with a high trade value. Crawford could probably be traded for close to equal value, but Curry would have to be sold short and Randolph would too primarily b/c of his contract. All of these guys have 2-4 more years on their deals. Now you could tank games and play the rookies, but you have now just killed any trade value these guys did have b/c every GM is going to lowball you.

Now if this group can turn things around and start winning games and god forbid actually make the playoffs (and make a strong showing in a playoff series), other GMs would start to have more interest in some of our guys. We have more talented players from 1 to 15 than just about any other team in the league, which means we have the pieces to put together some decent trade packages for future picks or veteran players better suited for our team. We just have to change the perception of our players. So, I don't advocate a strategy of tanking games because our young people need to learn how to win.

I could see if getting the #1 pick were guaranteed, but ask Memphis and Boston how well tanking works for getting the #1 pick and this year's draft is not deep, so unless you get a top-3 pick, you are really in a crapshoot as to whether you are getting someone who can actually contribute. It should not be forgotten that Orlando got the number 1# pick a few years ago after busting their butt to do everything they could to get into the playoffs, so it is not like you preclude yourself from getting the #1 pick if you try to have a successful season.
Trust the Process
SlimPack
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12/20/2007  8:25 PM
The knicks making the playoffs it wouldn't build a winning culture, they'd just get swept out of the first round and return to the lottery again next season. creating a winning culture is something that won't happen under Isiah because he simply doesn't know how to do it.

[Edited by - Slimpack on 12-20-2007 8:26 PM]
GKFv2
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12/20/2007  8:48 PM
The Knicks made the playoffs in 2003 and got swept out. I forgot how much of a winning culture that was.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
4949
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12/20/2007  10:28 PM
Posted by FrenchKnicks:

I have to admit that when I woke up this morning and checked the score from last night's game, I was really disappointed. Geez, a WIN against the Cavs... damn, I thought that was a sure loss

The Knicks have really messed up my mind. I just don't know how to react anymore. We have a mediocre team, and unless we get a couple of key injuries (Crawford, Zach), we'll most likely get stupid #10 pick again

I HATE THIS TEAM, I REALLY DO. I'm a hater now

Zach could get arrested to. Remember? He has more than one liability. This is why I don't want Artest here. Wayyyy too many liabilities. The rediculous contracts are more than enough to handle at this point. Please, no more known' problems on this team.
I'll never trust this' team again.
Winning sucks

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