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Assistant Coach on Steph: "HE HAS GOT TO GO"
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Queeniepop
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12/2/2007  10:07 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/2007/12/02/2007-12-02_source_comeback_against_bucks_saves_isia-1.html
Thomas desperately wants to paint a picture that the Knicks are not a house divided, although there is mounting trouble in the locker room. Thomas' relationship with Marbury is on the rocks, or as one assistant coach said of Marbury on Friday, "He's got to go."
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Queeniepop
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12/2/2007  10:08 AM
newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-spberger025485332dec02,0,6078868.column

Newsday.com
Seems rally clear Knicks better without Marbury
Ken Berger

NBA BASKETBALL

December 2, 2007

One night after the 45-point loss to the Celtics, which only solidified Reggie Miller's assessment that the Knicks are a league-wide joke, Isiah Thomas was asked if his team's performance Friday night would signify anything about how the players feel about him.

The thinking was, if a group of supposed professionals wouldn't play for their coach after a night like that, they never would.

"That doesn't enter my mind," said Thomas, who later proved that his job security is very much on his mind when he compared himself to a shackled death-row inmate being led to the electric chair.

Someone else asked Thomas if the selfish play his team displayed in Boston was a commentary not on the coach but on the players.

For my money, that premise got us closer to the truth about what really is wrong with the Knicks. Was it mere coincidence that Thomas' flat-lining team was able to erase a double-digit deficit against the Bucks Friday night only after his point guard retired to the locker room with a shoulder injury?

Was the immediate and pronounced lift in energy and team play an aberration, or was it directly related to the fact that Stephon Marbury was as far away from the basketball as possible?

Marbury's teammates have continued to insist that they have no hard feelings over his departure from the team on that harrowing West Coast trip three weeks ago. Some will point to Marbury's individual performances that produced consecutive victories over the Bulls and Jazz last week.

But look: Marbury's teammates were so thrilled with his individual efforts that they went and flat-out laid down for the Celtics on Thursday night. They didn't wake up until Marbury left the court with 5:45 left in the third quarter Friday night with the Knicks trailing Milwaukee 65-52.

With Marbury out of the way, the Knicks actually played like a determined, cohesive unit for once. The 13-point deficit was gone 13 minutes after Fred Jones subbed for Marbury.

That is why the worst thing uttered in the locker room after the Knicks' 91-88 victory was Marbury saying, "I know I'm playing Sunday."

That means more trouble.

"When we play together and everybody moves and touches it and feels good about the way they're playing, normally we have at least five or six guys in double figures," Thomas said. "And that's how we win basketball games."

But they don't play that way when Marbury is on the floor.

Thomas has a huge dilemma here. If he benches Marbury again, he risks creating another massive distraction. If Thomas continues to let Marbury run the team his way - through himself - he risks losing the rest of the team. Yet he needs Marbury to play lights-out in order to cash in on any slim chance he has of trading him.

Thomas also has to decide where Eddy Curry fits in all of this. Thomas isn't utilizing David Lee in the front-line rotation as much as anticipated, partly because Lee hasn't been productive enough. But something has to give, because the 1-2 post punch of Zach Randolph and Curry isn't working.

Decision time is today. The Knicks can't afford to play the plodding style that comes with Marbury running the offense and the floor clogging up with Curry and Randolph dueling for space in the low post.

The Knicks' best chance is to play unselfishly and with the sort of energy that leads you to believe they enjoy playing together. Short of Marbury waking up today and flying to Phoenix by himself, I don't know what advice to offer Thomas other than "good luck."
BigC
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12/2/2007  10:24 AM
I would just bench him and start Jones. Marbury's trade value is not going to increase with him making 21 mil a year.
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Queeniepop
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12/2/2007  10:48 AM
I don't think Isiah will bench them, but I think we may see less of Curry and Marbury during "tough stretches" of the game, which in most cases are the majority of the game. SImilarly, maybe we see less of the two during the end of close games.

I think if you want to alleviate some of the pressure on Steph to get the offense going as well as Eddy going, you make Jamal the PG and Steph the SG. Jamal will be able to get Eddy involved way easier. And Steph's flaw of his inability to run the offense will be masked. STeph takes too long to set the offense up and deliver the ball. He stands there on the perimeter and dribbles away the clock, then comes the offensive fouls, offensive 3 seconds or bad perimeter shots with the clock running down.

Since we are supposedly playing "INSIDE-OUT," it seems there is no "OUT." That is a result of two very poor-passing big men as well as the fact that the players stand around while Marbury struggles to get the ball inside or when he looks for his own shot. Also, someone should tell Zach and Eddy, the ball must come out.

I also think a more well-liked and respected player should be controlling the offense because evidently Marbury is not a favorite amongst the group and coaches. If Isiah is smart, he can use the fact that we came back from 16 pts down and won w/o Marbury on the floor, as well as Eddy (Eddy played limited minutes) and say we are going with what wins. The guys became so more cohesive and in general, a more positive and likeable bunch.

I think we see why Isiah wanted to bring Steph off the bench...it just blew up in his face, the way he went about it.

I am unsure what anyone, including GOD, could help with Eddy's D, particularly on the pick and roll. Doesn't Eddy realize that after the pick is set, someone is going to roll toward the paint or his man may shoot? I think he has been trying to block shots, which is a good thing, but the paint against the Knicks is like an open highway.
BigC
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12/2/2007  11:02 AM
Posted by Queeniepop:

I don't think Isiah will bench them, but I think we may see less of Curry and Marbury during "tough stretches" of the game, which in most cases are the majority of the game. SImilarly, maybe we see less of the two during the end of close games.

I think if you want to alleviate some of the pressure on Steph to get the offense going as well as Eddy going, you make Jamal the PG and Steph the SG. Jamal will be able to get Eddy involved way easier. And Steph's flaw of his inability to run the offense will be masked. STeph takes too long to set the offense up and deliver the ball. He stands there on the perimeter and dribbles away the clock, then comes the offensive fouls, offensive 3 seconds or bad perimeter shots with the clock running down.

Since we are supposedly playing "INSIDE-OUT," it seems there is no "OUT." That is a result of two very poor-passing big men as well as the fact that the players stand around while Marbury struggles to get the ball inside or when he looks for his own shot. Also, someone should tell Zach and Eddy, the ball must come out.

I also think a more well-liked and respected player should be controlling the offense because evidently Marbury is not a favorite amongst the group and coaches. If Isiah is smart, he can use the fact that we came back from 16 pts down and won w/o Marbury on the floor, as well as Eddy (Eddy played limited minutes) and say we are going with what wins. The guys became so more cohesive and in general, a more positive and likeable bunch.

I think we see why Isiah wanted to bring Steph off the bench...it just blew up in his face, the way he went about it.

I am unsure what anyone, including GOD, could help with Eddy's D, particularly on the pick and roll. Doesn't Eddy realize that after the pick is set, someone is going to roll toward the paint or his man may shoot? I think he has been trying to block shots, which is a good thing, but the paint against the Knicks is like an open highway.

Coach Eyebrows jumped the gun when started flipping out after the heat lost. At that point this team was 2-3. Then he has the nerves to hand out fake threats to Marbury. If you make threats you have to back it up.

I think the main reason why the Marbury off the bench experiment did not work is because the players were still pissed at Isiah for letting Marbury play. Not only that Isiah started the wrong guy. Mardy is not as good as people think. Isiah should have gone with Jones.

As far as Marbury, not only does he hold on to the ball too long but he is not moving around with the ball. The thing that is the craziest is Marbury does not even like to run plays. He likes to make up his own plays while the ball is in his hands.

BigC's Knick blogs and Knicks highlights after every Knicks game http://fromthebaseline.com/
BasketballJones
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12/2/2007  11:06 AM
I still say the Knicks should go Tim Thomas on Steph's ass and let him stay home for the rest of the year, then trade him next year when he's an ending contract.

[Edited by - basketballjones on 12-02-2007 11:07]
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BigC
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12/2/2007  11:09 AM
Posted by BasketballJones:

I still say the Knicks should go Tim Thomas on Steph's ass and let him stay home for the rest of the year, then trade him next year when he's an ending contract.

[Edited by - basketballjones on 12-02-2007 11:07]

I guess they are worried that Bullet Head Marbury will be talking trash on the radio for those months that he is suppose to be home.



[Edited by - BigC on 12-02-2007 11:09 AM]
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McK1
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12/2/2007  11:13 AM
good Lord...they beat a bad Bucks team and now its we don't need Steph.

they don't win "3 of the last 4" without the play of Marbury in the first 2 wins.

I hope Steph gets traded. Thomas is a leech and has been throwing Steph under the bus since he and MSG have found that they can market Crawful enough to not feel the loss of the revenue Steph brought in.

it doesn't matter if the team only wins 33 games as long as in the home finale Crawful can play NY to a lower lottery pick and sign another sneaker for some fan he dazzled with a 30 point performance in a meaningless win
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
BasketballJones
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12/2/2007  11:14 AM
Posted by McK1:

good Lord...they beat a bad Bucks team and now its we don't need Steph.

they don't win "3 of the last 4" without the play of Marbury in the first 2 wins.

I hope Steph gets traded. Thomas is a leech and has been throwing Steph under the bus since he and MSG have found that they can market Crawful enough to not feel the loss of the revenue Steph brought in.

it doesn't matter if the team only wins 33 games as long as in the home finale Crawful can play NY to a lower lottery pick and sign another sneaker for some fan he dazzled with a 30 point performance in a meaningless win

Thomas and Marbury really deserve each other.

[Edited by - basketballjones on 12-02-2007 11:14]
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nykshaknbake
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12/2/2007  11:19 AM
Steph probably should go, but why does anyone think Crawford is even capable of pretending to be a point gaurd? BEcause he's thrown a few alley oops to Curry?
bigbeast
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12/2/2007  11:30 AM
Posted by nykshaknbake:

Steph probably should go, but why does anyone think Crawford is even capable of pretending to be a point gaurd? BEcause he's thrown a few alley oops to Curry?

"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
Queeniepop
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12/2/2007  11:30 AM
Jamal played PG in HS, college and was drafted as one:

Point guard - top 25 high school prospects - Brief Article
Sporting News, The, Dec 14, 1998 by Brick Oettinger

Rk. Name Town/High school (college)

1. Brett Nelson St. Albans, W. Va./St. Albans (Florida)
2. Jason Williams Metuchen, N.J./St. Joseph's (Duke)
3. Jason Gardner Indianapolis/North Central (Arizona)
4. Majestic Mapp Bronx, N.Y./St. Raymond's (Virginia)
5. Kevin Gaines Las Vegas/Clark (Michigan)
6. Todd Billet Lincroft, N.J./Christian Brothers
Academy (Rutgers)
7. Steven Blake Mouth of Wilson, Va./Oak Hill
Academy (Maryland)
8. Brent Darby River Rouge, Mich./River
Rouge (Ohio State)
9. Hollis Price New Orleans/St Augustine (Oklahoma)
10. Reese Gaines Madison, Wis./West
11. Ken Lawrence North Little Rock, Ark./North
Little Rock
12. Tim Lyles Durham, N.C./Mt. Zion Christian Academy
13. Clifford Crawford Winston-Salem, N.C./Parkland (NC State)
14. Gilbert Arenas Van Nuys, Calif./Grant (Arizona)
15. Jamal Crawford Seattle/Rainier Beach (Michigan)
16. Jamie Brewer Kensington, Md./Newport School
17. Trio Maddox Compton, Calif./Compton
(Arizona State(*))
18. Julius Barnes Rowland Heights, Calif./
Rowland (Stanford)
19. Kirk Hinrich Sioux City, Iowa/West (Kansas)
20. Marque Perry Chicago/Prosser (St. Louis)
21. Edward Scott Hopkins, S.C./Lower Richland
22. Marcus Cox Bridgeport, Conn./Kolbe
Cathedral (Connecticut)
23. Ben Johnson Minneapolis/De La Salle (Northwestern)
24. Harris Walker Chatham, Va./Hargrave Military
Academy (Tennessee)
25. Demetrius Hunter North Las Vegas, Nev./
Cheyenne (Georgetown)

NBA Draft 2000
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2000/nba_draft/news/2000/06/27/draft_grades/

Atlanta (B) -- SG DerMarr Johnson is just the kind of tall athletic shooting guard the Hawks need. PF Hanno Mottola and PG Scoonie Penn are solid second-round picks.


Boston (B-) -- Rick Pitino gets a big guy in PF Jerome Moiso -- who can run and jump and play his system -- but will he someday regret passing up SG Courtney Alexander?


Charlotte (C+) -- PF Jamaal Magloire has a chance to be good, but the Hornets already have a crowded frontcourt. Meanwhile, Eddie Jones is a free agent.


Chicago (A-) -- GM Jerry Krause didn't get Darius Miles, but he got two hot commodities in PF Marcus Fizer and PG Jamal Crawford, as well as a decent project in C Dalibor Bagaric.

bigbeast
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12/2/2007  11:34 AM
Posted by nykshaknbake:

Steph probably should go, but why does anyone think Crawford is even capable of pretending to be a point gaurd? BEcause he's thrown a few alley oops to Curry?

Exactly. I want Steph gone aswell, but at the pressent time, he is still our best option to play the point over the long haul. Mardy and Nate are back-ups and Craw isn't a point guard. Sure, Craw can make a few flashy passes, but I wouldn't trust him running the team for an extended period of time.
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
McK1
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12/2/2007  11:35 AM
quote from Isiah and the articles premise:
"When we play together and everybody moves and touches it and feels good about the way they're playing, normally we have at least five or six guys in double figures," Thomas said. "And that's how we win basketball games."

But they don't play that way when Marbury is on the floor.

but looking at the boxscore:


  
S. Marbury 28 5-12 1-3 2-6 1 4 6 2 1 0 1 13
J. Crawford 42 10-24 2-6 3-4 0 2 4 1 3 0 2 25
Q. Richardson 45 3-8 1-5 0-0 1 11 2 2 2 0 2 7
Z. Randolph 40 10-16 1-1 4-6 2 8 0 4 1 1 3 25
E. Curry 26 2-4 0-0 3-4 0 2 0 2 0 2 4 7
F. Jones 17 4-4 1-1 1-2 0 0 2 0 0 0 2 10
R. Balkman 17 2-5 0-0 0-0 1 3 0 0 0 0 3 4
D. Lee 12 0-2 0-0 0-1 3 5 0 0 0 0 2 0
J. Jeffries 5 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
M. Rose 3 0-1 0-0 0-0 0 1 0 1 0 0 2 0



only 4 players reached double figures and 1 of them was Steph.

in the back to back wins:

only 3 players reached double figures

Marbury Zach and Crwfrd vs Utah

Marbury Zach and Curry vs Chi

the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
McK1
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12/2/2007  11:43 AM
Posted by Queeniepop:

Jamal played PG in HS, college and was drafted as one:

Point guard - top 25 high school prospects - Brief Article
Sporting News, The, Dec 14, 1998 by Brick Oettinger

Rk. Name Town/High school (college)

1. Brett Nelson St. Albans, W. Va./St. Albans (Florida)
2. Jason Williams Metuchen, N.J./St. Joseph's (Duke)
3. Jason Gardner Indianapolis/North Central (Arizona)
4. Majestic Mapp Bronx, N.Y./St. Raymond's (Virginia)
5. Kevin Gaines Las Vegas/Clark (Michigan)
6. Todd Billet Lincroft, N.J./Christian Brothers
Academy (Rutgers)
7. Steven Blake Mouth of Wilson, Va./Oak Hill
Academy (Maryland)
8. Brent Darby River Rouge, Mich./River
Rouge (Ohio State)
9. Hollis Price New Orleans/St Augustine (Oklahoma)
10. Reese Gaines Madison, Wis./West
11. Ken Lawrence North Little Rock, Ark./North
Little Rock
12. Tim Lyles Durham, N.C./Mt. Zion Christian Academy
13. Clifford Crawford Winston-Salem, N.C./Parkland (NC State)
14. Gilbert Arenas Van Nuys, Calif./Grant (Arizona)
15. Jamal Crawford Seattle/Rainier Beach (Michigan)
16. Jamie Brewer Kensington, Md./Newport School
17. Trio Maddox Compton, Calif./Compton
(Arizona State(*))
18. Julius Barnes Rowland Heights, Calif./
Rowland (Stanford)
19. Kirk Hinrich Sioux City, Iowa/West (Kansas)
20. Marque Perry Chicago/Prosser (St. Louis)
21. Edward Scott Hopkins, S.C./Lower Richland
22. Marcus Cox Bridgeport, Conn./Kolbe
Cathedral (Connecticut)
23. Ben Johnson Minneapolis/De La Salle (Northwestern)
24. Harris Walker Chatham, Va./Hargrave Military
Academy (Tennessee)
25. Demetrius Hunter North Las Vegas, Nev./
Cheyenne (Georgetown)

NBA Draft 2000
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2000/nba_draft/news/2000/06/27/draft_grades/

Atlanta (B) -- SG DerMarr Johnson is just the kind of tall athletic shooting guard the Hawks need. PF Hanno Mottola and PG Scoonie Penn are solid second-round picks.


Boston (B-) -- Rick Pitino gets a big guy in PF Jerome Moiso -- who can run and jump and play his system -- but will he someday regret passing up SG Courtney Alexander?


Charlotte (C+) -- PF Jamaal Magloire has a chance to be good, but the Hornets already have a crowded frontcourt. Meanwhile, Eddie Jones is a free agent.


Chicago (A-) -- GM Jerry Krause didn't get Darius Miles, but he got two hot commodities in PF Marcus Fizer and PG Jamal Crawford, as well as a decent project in C Dalibor Bagaric.

CLASS OF 98 WAS A VERY WEAK YEAR FOR THE POINT GUARD POSITION

the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
BasketballJones
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12/2/2007  11:43 AM
Getting rid of Marbury is addition by subtraction. He's such a negative presence that I really believe this will be a better team - maybe even a team that has fun playing basketball - without him. It's true that he's the best point guard on the team, but that is outweighed by his social shortcomings.

[Edited by - basketballjones on 12-02-2007 11:44]
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bigbeast
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12/2/2007  11:45 AM
Any way we can move Steph to the Heat? They are struggling, JWill has been benched and Pat Riley's ego is big enough to believe he can turn Stephs career around.

Mark Blount, Jwill and an unprotected 1st for Steph. I believe Blount has the same amount of years as Steph. JWill expires this summer and we get an extra pick in a pretty good draft.

[Edited by - bigbeast on 02-12-2007 11:46 AM]
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
bitty41
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12/2/2007  11:51 AM
As I watch Jordan Farmer, Kyle Lowery, and Rajon Rondo I get mad all over again about the 2006 draft. The Knicks screwed themselves.

Does anyone think we have a chance to get Andre Miller?
McK1
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12/2/2007  11:54 AM
If you are going to deactivate him then deactivate him.

will NY win more games sans Marbury...HIGHLY UNLIKELY. This is not Bellicheck/Parcaells benching Bledsoe for Brady/Romo. Crawful has been a starter in this league for the past 5 seasons and his decision making and ability to win ball games has been lottery team level.

the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
BasketballJones
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Alba Posts: 19
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Member: #290
USA
12/2/2007  11:57 AM
Posted by McK1:

If you are going to deactivate him then deactivate him.

will NY win more games sans Marbury...HIGHLY UNLIKELY. This is not Bellicheck/Parcaells benching Bledsoe for Brady/Romo. Crawful has been a starter in this league for the past 5 seasons and his decision making and ability to win ball games has been lottery team level.

Can't live with him, can't live without him, huh?
https:// It's not so hard.
Assistant Coach on Steph: "HE HAS GOT TO GO"

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