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Update on an old failed project
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4949
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11/18/2007  2:54 PM
Yup' it's Frye time.

Okay, we had a chance to get Bynum in the draft and here's the third year results so far.

Bynum:
55% FG shooting
73% FT shooting
10 PPG
9.6 RPG
1.2 Blocks per game
And he's still only 20 years old

Frye:
45% FG shooting
50% FT shooting
5.6 PPG
3.6 RPG
0.2 Blocks per game

Hate to rub it in.
I'll never trust this' team again.
AUTOADVERT
BigC
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11/18/2007  2:58 PM
Granger would have been a better pick also.
BigC's Knick blogs and Knicks highlights after every Knicks game http://fromthebaseline.com/
Bonn1997
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11/18/2007  3:01 PM
And Bynum would be better for the long-term than Zach too.
4949
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11/18/2007  3:02 PM
Oh yes. As a matter of fact, the next five picked after Frye probably would have been better at this point.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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11/19/2007  10:31 PM
Another amazing fact about Bynum is 'he's only averaging ONE turnover a game..........in his career'.
I'll never trust this' team again.
arkrud
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11/19/2007  11:52 PM
But Isiah is great talent evaluator.
The problem is he can find only talents but cannot find players.
And even bigger problem he has no idea what to do with this talents.

It must suck to do things that you have no idea about. But it is quite profitable...

[Edited by - arkrud on 11-19-2007 11:52 PM]
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Marv
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11/20/2007  7:36 AM
frye had a block!?!?!?
Solace
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11/20/2007  8:31 AM
Double ouch on Frye.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
fishmike
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11/20/2007  8:36 AM
Frye is a huge black mark on Isiah's resume here. Based on the talent he's passed on and the picks he's traded I would say Isiah has certainly failed to use the draft to improve this team... that is until Balkman becomes the next Scottie Pippen... ask Earl when that will be.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Solace
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11/20/2007  8:44 AM
Posted by fishmike:

Frye is a huge black mark on Isiah's resume here. Based on the talent he's passed on and the picks he's traded I would say Isiah has certainly failed to use the draft to improve this team... that is until Balkman becomes the next Scottie Pippen... ask Earl when that will be.

If you're saying is that Isiah has done a great job at finding good supporting players in the draft, but has not managed to piece together the essential core, I fully agree. Isiah's done well in the draft when it's come to pulling a player out of a low pick; he's done a great job at that. He's struck out when finding core pieces via trade, draft and signing. When he's had a high pick in NY, it hasn't worked out -- mostly because I think he went for "low risk", which ironically was actually high risk.

Oh well, and here we are. A mesh of individual players, not a team. A few very good supporting players... and no one to support.

"No one would ever build a team this way, unless they're trying to get fired the very next day"

Then again, it works on the Playstation. (Maybe Isiah is mustafaab?)
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Panos
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11/20/2007  8:57 AM
Posted by Solace:


Oh well, and here we are. A mesh of individual players, not a team. A few very good supporting players... and no one to support.

Solace, I think the problem is leadership. And it does start with Marbury. When your star player (especially your point guard) on the court is not a team player, and in this case the opposite of such, it will result in players being "individual players" not a team.

Step one: like with substance abuse, is admitting you have a problem.
Step two: Get rid of Marbury.
fishmike
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11/20/2007  9:02 AM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by fishmike:

Frye is a huge black mark on Isiah's resume here. Based on the talent he's passed on and the picks he's traded I would say Isiah has certainly failed to use the draft to improve this team... that is until Balkman becomes the next Scottie Pippen... ask Earl when that will be.

If you're saying is that Isiah has done a great job at finding good supporting players in the draft, but has not managed to piece together the essential core, I fully agree. Isiah's done well in the draft when it's come to pulling a player out of a low pick; he's done a great job at that. He's struck out when finding core pieces via trade, draft and signing. When he's had a high pick in NY, it hasn't worked out -- mostly because I think he went for "low risk", which ironically was actually high risk.

Oh well, and here we are. A mesh of individual players, not a team. A few very good supporting players... and no one to support.

"No one would ever build a team this way, unless they're trying to get fired the very next day"

Then again, it works on the Playstation. (Maybe Isiah is mustafaab?)
I am talking about using the draft in the total sense. Yes.. Balkman, Lee, Ariza, Nate were decent picks for their position. Frye was not, and when you factor in the picks he traded or the fact that Balkman cost him $37mm over all there is nothing impressive about his use of the draft, especially when you consider we still have no franchise player or anything close

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
VDesai
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11/20/2007  9:23 AM
Posted by fishmike:

Frye is a huge black mark on Isiah's resume here. Based on the talent he's passed on and the picks he's traded I would say Isiah has certainly failed to use the draft to improve this team... that is until Balkman becomes the next Scottie Pippen... ask Earl when that will be.

Well considering we haven't gotten better its hard to argue with that. I'd say his abilty to find talent after pick 20 is impressive considering the track record of the rest of the NBA, but you're certainly right about the cost we've incurred to get those picks.
playa2
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11/20/2007  10:49 AM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by Solace:
Posted by fishmike:

Frye is a huge black mark on Isiah's resume here. Based on the talent he's passed on and the picks he's traded I would say Isiah has certainly failed to use the draft to improve this team... that is until Balkman becomes the next Scottie Pippen... ask Earl when that will be.

If you're saying is that Isiah has done a great job at finding good supporting players in the draft, but has not managed to piece together the essential core, I fully agree. Isiah's done well in the draft when it's come to pulling a player out of a low pick; he's done a great job at that. He's struck out when finding core pieces via trade, draft and signing. When he's had a high pick in NY, it hasn't worked out -- mostly because I think he went for "low risk", which ironically was actually high risk.

Oh well, and here we are. A mesh of individual players, not a team. A few very good supporting players... and no one to support.

"No one would ever build a team this way, unless they're trying to get fired the very next day"

Then again, it works on the Playstation. (Maybe Isiah is mustafaab?)
I am talking about using the draft in the total sense. Yes.. Balkman, Lee, Ariza, Nate were decent picks for their position. Frye was not, and when you factor in the picks he traded or the fact that Balkman cost him $37mm over all there is nothing impressive about his use of the draft, especially when you consider we still have no franchise player or anything close

Where does the 37 mil for balkman come from ?

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
VDesai
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11/20/2007  10:52 AM
They took on 2 years of Jalen Rose's max contract for Antonio Davis' expiring, though I'm not sure the contract differential was that high. It was at least 17 mil.
Solace
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11/20/2007  11:09 AM
Posted by playa2:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by Solace:
Posted by fishmike:

Frye is a huge black mark on Isiah's resume here. Based on the talent he's passed on and the picks he's traded I would say Isiah has certainly failed to use the draft to improve this team... that is until Balkman becomes the next Scottie Pippen... ask Earl when that will be.

If you're saying is that Isiah has done a great job at finding good supporting players in the draft, but has not managed to piece together the essential core, I fully agree. Isiah's done well in the draft when it's come to pulling a player out of a low pick; he's done a great job at that. He's struck out when finding core pieces via trade, draft and signing. When he's had a high pick in NY, it hasn't worked out -- mostly because I think he went for "low risk", which ironically was actually high risk.

Oh well, and here we are. A mesh of individual players, not a team. A few very good supporting players... and no one to support.

"No one would ever build a team this way, unless they're trying to get fired the very next day"

Then again, it works on the Playstation. (Maybe Isiah is mustafaab?)
I am talking about using the draft in the total sense. Yes.. Balkman, Lee, Ariza, Nate were decent picks for their position. Frye was not, and when you factor in the picks he traded or the fact that Balkman cost him $37mm over all there is nothing impressive about his use of the draft, especially when you consider we still have no franchise player or anything close

Where does the 37 mil for balkman come from ?

I would assume the $34 mill extra we spent in the Jalen Rose trade plus Balkman's salary.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Solace
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11/20/2007  11:11 AM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by Solace:


Oh well, and here we are. A mesh of individual players, not a team. A few very good supporting players... and no one to support.

Solace, I think the problem is leadership. And it does start with Marbury. When your star player (especially your point guard) on the court is not a team player, and in this case the opposite of such, it will result in players being "individual players" not a team.

Step one: like with substance abuse, is admitting you have a problem.
Step two: Get rid of Marbury.

Thta's absolutely the start of the problem, yes. Unfortunately it's not the only one. Even if we rid ourselves of Marbury, we still have a deep team with no leadership and no real core. That isn't likely to change until policy is changed and goals are set higher than 'slip into the playoffs'.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
fishmike
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11/20/2007  11:22 AM
Posted by VDesai:

They took on 2 years of Jalen Rose's max contract for Antonio Davis' expiring, though I'm not sure the contract differential was that high. It was at least 17 mil.
exactly $17mm, plus we are over the luxury tax threshold so its doubled. That deal cost the Knicks $34mm in salary and luxury taxes for which we have Balkman to show for.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Allanfan20
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11/20/2007  11:53 AM
And to top that off, we're still trying to figure out if trading Curry for Tyrus Noah was the right thing and so far, Curry's defense has been below caca as usual, even when he's trying nowadays. He proved this training camp that he doesn't have the ability to come into camp in shape.

Isiah just doesn't know how to build a basketball team, yet he really feels he's done a great job.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
4949
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11/21/2007  6:48 AM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by Solace:
Posted by fishmike:

Frye is a huge black mark on Isiah's resume here. Based on the talent he's passed on and the picks he's traded I would say Isiah has certainly failed to use the draft to improve this team... that is until Balkman becomes the next Scottie Pippen... ask Earl when that will be.

If you're saying is that Isiah has done a great job at finding good supporting players in the draft, but has not managed to piece together the essential core, I fully agree. Isiah's done well in the draft when it's come to pulling a player out of a low pick; he's done a great job at that. He's struck out when finding core pieces via trade, draft and signing. When he's had a high pick in NY, it hasn't worked out -- mostly because I think he went for "low risk", which ironically was actually high risk.

Oh well, and here we are. A mesh of individual players, not a team. A few very good supporting players... and no one to support.

"No one would ever build a team this way, unless they're trying to get fired the very next day"

Then again, it works on the Playstation. (Maybe Isiah is mustafaab?)
I am talking about using the draft in the total sense. Yes.. Balkman, Lee, Ariza, Nate were decent picks for their position. Frye was not, and when you factor in the picks he traded or the fact that Balkman cost him $37mm over all there is nothing impressive about his use of the draft, especially when you consider we still have no franchise player or anything close

Let's not forget the mistake of giving the bulls a high first round pick, two years in a row, for curry. I said it from the beginning. Curry would not be good for us and Isiah made an emotional move anyway. It's the 'chicago buddy system'. That's the way they do things. Wether you suck or not, your in! Isiah's best young acquisitions for the Knicks have been Lee and Balkman. That's it! Zach is not too bad, when he's not turning the ball over, but he's not truely a beast in the East either. Isiah hasn't made any significant moves for us overall. The team we have now, they should be good enough for at least 40 wins, but our problem has a lot to do with mentality at this point. That's another story. Between Layden and Isiah, of all the bad investments that where made and of all of the free agent superstars that came and went, that we could' have had over the last ten years is completely unacceptible!!! We could never make a deal, because the money was always tied up. I say this over and over. 'Save The Money'! Here's yet another example. He invest's in Zach, who's isn't really doing bad so far, but why couldn't we just saved for the cap? My point being, is Zach making a real difference on this team? So far no. So why did we spend all of that money? When we could have saved it and spent it on someone much more legit? Think about that for a moment. If I were the GM, Q, Crawford, Curry, suckbury, Jerome, Jeffries would not be on this team right now, because I wouldn't of been that stupid to get them. Knowing about ending contracts, I would have known when King James contract ended, I would have been ready to pitch a deal to L.A. to get Kobe. I would have had a clear shot at KG. My cap would have been protected, if I was in charge. And if Dolan tried to take that away from me' the media and the public would know about it. There would Zero' buddy system in my system. I'd put everyone's talents to work, the people that worked for me. Including Anucha, because that's what I would have fired her for. Now who could ask for anything better from a GM? Anyone?! Why has it been so hard to have a solid plan like this scenario?
I'll never trust this' team again.
Update on an old failed project

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