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oohah and rembee: If a real fan never wants his team to lose, what does it say about a GM who does?
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BlueSeats
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11/2/2007  4:00 PM
If a real fan never wants his team to lose, what does it say about a GM who does?

The feuding friends

MICHAEL CLARKSON

It is one of the lasting images of Toronto Raptors history: rookie head coach Brendan Malone raising his arm triumphantly to a record crowd of 36,131 in the SkyDome after the Raptors had upset Michael Jordan's Chicago Bulls.

That was on March 24, 1996. Few people knew, however, that as Malone took in the cheers of the crowd his future was being undermined by his general manager Isiah Thomas.

As the Raptors were warming up for their very next game, Thomas walked up to reporters and asked if they felt the team was trying to win too quickly in its first season.

A month later, Malone was out of a job, forced out by Thomas for "philosophical differences," even though Malone had squeezed every ounce of talent out of the inaugural Raptors and led them to a 21-61 record, just one win short of the modern-day expansion record...

Probably the unkindest cut of all was in Toronto, where Thomas forced Malone out because the GM wanted to develop young players slowly and get high draft picks, while Malone wanted to win right away for the fans.


[Edited by - blueseats on 11-02-2007 4:11 PM]
AUTOADVERT
oohah
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11/2/2007  4:13 PM
Blueseats, I'm surprised at you. Drawing the conclusion that Isiah wanted to lose from this quote is the worst kind of word twisting.

If anything, it shows that he understands that the right way to build a team is usually a gradual process.

If anything, it reveals that his methodology in NYC has been affected greatly by Dolan.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
oohah
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11/2/2007  4:15 PM
Probably the unkindest cut of all was in Toronto, where Thomas forced Malone out because the GM wanted to develop young players slowly and get high draft picks, while Malone wanted to win right away for the fans.

So, it seems that Isiah agrees with every one of the "anti-make big moves to win now while mortgaging the future set".

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
BlueSeats
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11/2/2007  4:18 PM
Posted by oohah:

Blueseats, I'm surprised at you. Drawing the conclusion that Isiah wanted to lose from this quote is the worst kind of word twisting.

Huh?
oohah
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11/2/2007  4:19 PM
Further, I am very specific with my words. I have said a real fan is never happy about his team losing and will always root for his team to win.

Feeling intellectually that the team might be better if they lose is one thing, and is plain wrong 99.99999% of the time because it attempts to predict the unpredictable. And even fans who feel that way shouldn't rejoice when the other team hits the game winning 3.

"Fanhood" resides in the heart. And a fan's heart should want to win.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
oohah
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11/2/2007  4:20 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by oohah:

Blueseats, I'm surprised at you. Drawing the conclusion that Isiah wanted to lose from this quote is the worst kind of word twisting.

Huh?

I think I explained why I say you are twisting words pretty well. But if if I am wrong, please quote me the part where Isiah says he wants to lose.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Bippity10
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11/2/2007  4:21 PM
Are we back on this "I'm a better fan than you" kick?

I want in.
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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11/2/2007  4:22 PM
Are we back on this "I'm a better fan than you" kick?

I want in.
I just hope that people will like me
BlueSeats
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11/2/2007  4:23 PM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by oohah:

Blueseats, I'm surprised at you. Drawing the conclusion that Isiah wanted to lose from this quote is the worst kind of word twisting.

Huh?

I think I explained why I say you are twisting words pretty well. But if if I am wrong, please quote me the part where Isiah says he wants to lose.

oohah


That's what the entire piece is about. Don't tell me you're going to play this out on the technicality that there are no direct quotes, other than "do you think the team is trying to win too quickly?"
Marv
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11/2/2007  4:25 PM
Andrew
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USA
11/2/2007  4:25 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Are we back on this "I'm a better fan than you" kick?

I want in.

If you want to show how much you love the Knicks, you must call Isiah a magic worker.
PURE KNICKS LOVE
BlueSeats
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11/2/2007  4:28 PM
Posted by oohah:

Further, I am very specific with my words. I have said a real fan is never happy about his team losing and will always root for his team to win.

Feeling intellectually that the team might be better if they lose is one thing, and is plain wrong 99.99999% of the time because it attempts to predict the unpredictable. And even fans who feel that way shouldn't rejoice when the other team hits the game winning 3.

"Fanhood" resides in the heart. And a fan's heart should want to win.

oohah

With all the information available to fans these days many no longer feel confined and obliged to play the dumb-blond cheerleader role.

That said, you're certainly welcome to your own opinions. Unlike yourself, I'm not so arrogant as to think everyone should feel like me.

But the question remains, if fans should never want their team to lose, what does it say about a GM who does?
oohah
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11/2/2007  4:33 PM
That's what the entire piece is about. Don't tell me you're going to play this out on the technicality that there are no direct quotes, other than "do you think the team is trying to win too quickly?"

Come on Blue. This is taking that article too far.

Here is the way I read it: According to some reporter, Malone wanted to make big moves (The kind that Isiah has been killed for here.), to squeeze a few more wins out early in the process of building the team. On the other hand, Isiah wanted to let a young team get experience, develop gradually, and build through the draft.

The part I italicized is the argument of every anti-Isiah rant on this board.

And at the same time, I don't know anything about this reporter or his source, if this is the usual back-page sensationalism. Remember when we had that big argument where I said I don't put much credence into the 3rd hand accounts of sports writers, I deal with what I can see for the most part?

However, even if I believe the article, Toronto was in an altogether different position from the Knicks, building through the draft was both viable and recommended.

When Isiah arrived in New York on the other hand, The Knicks were capped out, every player on that team was on their way out of the NBA except for bench-warmers Kurt Thomas and Nazr Mohamed, in addition to the fact the owner was not going to go for building gradually through the draft.

Other than that I do get the comparison that they are both NBA teams!

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
oohah
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11/2/2007  4:37 PM
With all the information available to fans these days many no longer feel confined and obliged to play the dumb-blond cheerleader role.

Is this exaggeration day? Somebody forgot to tell me! So wanting your team to win period is equal to a "Dumb-blond Chearleader"?

Dude you are taking the ball and running with it! Somebody call the Giants!

Are you going to be rooting against the Knicks tonight? You're going to jump and cheer when Crawford airballs one? You're going to shout "hooray!" when LeBron jams it on Eddy, nutsack to face?

You know what? Deep down I don't think you will.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 02-11-2007 4:39 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
TrueBlue
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11/2/2007  4:44 PM
This is the kind of post that makes a nuthugger approach the bridge. The next will result in the nuthugger jumping.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
oohah
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11/2/2007  4:45 PM
Look at all of the Golden Oldies threads bumped today. Everybody just knew that Isiah was going to bring us to the promised land!

I don't know that the next man will be better or worse. Neither do you.

I understand why Earl holds those: "name your candidate" session. There are usually no real answers, except for the always insightful: "Anybody but Isiah"

Will the next as yet undefined man be better? Maybe. Or maybe Mr. John Doe of the Future will be worse.

You know what I'm going to do in the meantime? Root for my team to win.

And when the next man comes along, whether the team is better or worse, crazier or saner, you know what I'm going to do?

I'm a-gonna root for my team. To infinitum.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Bippity10
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11/2/2007  4:50 PM
Posted by oohah:

Look at all of the Golden Oldies threads bumped today. Everybody just knew that Isiah was going to bring us to the promised land!

I don't know that the next man will be better or worse. Neither do you.

I understand why Earl holds those: "name your candidate" session. There are usually no real answers, except for the always insightful: "Anybody but Isiah"

Will the next as yet undefined man be better? Maybe. Or maybe Mr. John Doe of the Future will be worse.

You know what I'm going to do in the meantime? Root for my team to win.

And when the next man comes along, whether the team is better or worse, crazier or saner, you know what I'm going to do?

I'm a-gonna root for my team. To infinitum.

oohah

I nominate Oooh Aahh as the best fan ever.
I just hope that people will like me
BlueSeats
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11/2/2007  4:52 PM
Posted by oohah:


Here is the way I read it: According to some reporter, Malone wanted to make big moves (The kind that Isiah has been killed for here.), to squeeze a few more wins out early in the process of building the team. On the other hand, Isiah wanted to let a young team get experience, develop gradually, and build through the draft.

Oohah, I'm pressed too pressed for time now to do the conversation justice, but I will say two things:

1. For a guy who wants to play this down to specific words, where does Malone say he wanted to make the kind of big moves Isiah gets killed for?

2. For a guy who insists that the instant a fan doesn't want his team to win he's no longer a fan, I see you peddling hard to draw differences and distinctions for GMs.
kam77
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11/2/2007  4:53 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:

This is the kind of post that makes a nuthugger approach the bridge. The next will result in the nuthugger jumping.

I'm so tired of you. Will you ever stop being so condescending. REALLY it seems like maturity skipped right over you. There's no reason to post the way you do.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
BlueSeats
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11/2/2007  4:53 PM
Posted by oohah:

Look at all of the Golden Oldies threads bumped today. Everybody just knew that Isiah was going to bring us to the promised land!

I don't know that the next man will be better or worse. Neither do you.

I understand why Earl holds those: "name your candidate" session. There are usually no real answers, except for the always insightful: "Anybody but Isiah"

Will the next as yet undefined man be better? Maybe. Or maybe Mr. John Doe of the Future will be worse.

You know what I'm going to do in the meantime? Root for my team to win.

And when the next man comes along, whether the team is better or worse, crazier or saner, you know what I'm going to do?

I'm a-gonna root for my team. To infinitum.

oohah



What a hero.
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oohah and rembee: If a real fan never wants his team to lose, what does it say about a GM who does?
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