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The sky is not falling-------
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BRIGGS
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10/19/2007  9:50 AM
but the clouds are onimous.

If we base things on numbers--we just have too many ineffecient players with low % shooting averages and the scare that some of us had that curry/randolph is just another ewing cartwright---two players who really should not be paired up. Both are VERY GOOD individually but like last year i dont see it collectively. the synergy isnt there. You are asking zach to play away from the basket and while he can do that a bit--his bread and butter is in the post.

I think after 4 years we can make a fair assessment--IT is a good draft picker maybe a head scout type or assistant GM but putting it all together in a bowl and making it work--he has done nothing to prove this. Quite honestly the team Layden had IF Mcdyess DID not get hurt wouldve been a contender and surely a playoff team with a tough out. The talent is here but it was also there for thr Mets with Bobby B Vince C etc... in the early 90s when they were awful.

We can say pre-season un til we are blue in the face but getting SMOKED like this is an awful sign-- we have to many inconsitent players who dont play D to win. We are going to have some games where we rope the other team but all in all unless we play the Bobcats and Sixers game after game --chemistry woes arent going to go away.
RIP Crushalot😞
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Nalod
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10/19/2007  10:26 AM
Briggy, I read your post and its very good. But when you add it up your saying the sky done hath falled and we waiting to see if it lifts.

BTW, don't be hateing on the Bobcats, they are a better TEAM than we will be this year.

Synergy is a good word. Lots of folk hate on Laydog cuz he got damaged goods in Dice. Isiah got damaged goods in Marbury. The man is mentally incapable of being a leader and that was very evident prior to us getting him. Isiah's arrogance again got the better of him. He thought he could get him "born again" in the image of Isiah the player. Instead Marburys resurrection has been in spirit. What drove Marbury was his mean surly approach and arrogance. With him being NiceBury I don't believe he will be able to sustain his level of intensity.
Killa4luv
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10/19/2007  10:32 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Quite honestly the team Layden had IF Mcdyess DID not get hurt wouldve been a contender and surely a playoff team with a tough out.

The same could be said about the team with Houston and Marbs. The critical difference is that Dice was damaged goods and layden still gave away a top 10 pick AND a proven big man for him, before we knew if he was fit to play. He was 28, a known commodity and a good but not dominant player. There was no basis on which to justify the trade. The team would not have been a contender simply with the addition of Dice, imo. It would have been a good team, but not a contender, definitely not enough to beat the Lakers or Spurs.
BlueSeats
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10/19/2007  10:50 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Quite honestly the team Layden had IF Mcdyess DID not get hurt wouldve been a contender and surely a playoff team with a tough out.

The same could be said about the team with Houston and Marbs. The critical difference is that Dice was damaged goods and layden still gave away a top 10 pick AND a proven big man for him, before we knew if he was fit to play. He was 28, a known commodity and a good but not dominant player. There was no basis on which to justify the trade. The team would not have been a contender simply with the addition of Dice, imo. It would have been a good team, but not a contender, definitely not enough to beat the Lakers or Spurs.


Killa, you're not wrong per se, but you have to admit that Ward, Houston, Spree, McDyess, KT and Motumbo is a far more realistic team than what we have going on now. Those guys would manhandle this group. Realistically, they are a starting PG away from being a very tough team. How far that projects into wins, etc, I can't say, but it's a serious team. Unlike the current situation.
Marv
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10/19/2007  11:01 AM
personally i found the later layden teams to be unwatchable. as excruciating in their own way as the current team is. i was elated when layden got dumped and i was elated when isiah got hired, and when he traded for marbury. this has been a huge huge disappointment, really crushing when you factor in what incurable junkies we are for this team. but i say the sky hath fallen and it is time to move one. i'd have no problem with isiah staying on this year as coach, but i'm highly nervous about him making any further deals,.. don't you guys just know he's gonna cook up some way to toss off this year’s #1 in pursuit of yet another doomed starphuck.

yikes.
Panos
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10/19/2007  11:10 AM
Posted by Marv:

personally i found the later layden teams to be unwatchable. as excruciating in their own way as the current team is. i was elated when layden got dumped and i was elated when isiah got hired, and when he traded for marbury. this has been a huge huge disappointment, really crushing when you factor in what incurable junkies we are for this team. but i say the sky hath fallen and it is time to move one. i'd have no problem with isiah staying on this year as coach, but i'm highly nervous about him making any further deals,.. don't you guys just know he's gonna cook up some way to toss off this year’s #1 in pursuit of yet another doomed starphuck.

yikes.

Marv, I agree on all points. Until of course, a better coach can be had as well...
arkrud
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10/19/2007  11:29 AM
The problem is IT is a cultural thing.
This kind of guys cannot just half-go.
He is like cancer - if you never cut it off in time... by by baby.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
TheGame
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10/19/2007  11:50 AM
IMO the problem is the offensive execution. Our team relies on jumpshooting too much. That stems from the fact that the guards have difficulty getting the ball to Curry and Randolph. Until we get better guard play to make our offense run more smoothly, the team is always going to have problems because there is no way the current set of players is going to be anything more than an average defensive team.
Trust the Process
BasketballJones
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10/19/2007  12:03 PM
Posted by TheGame:

IMO the problem is the offensive execution. Our team relies on jumpshooting too much. That stems from the fact that the guards have difficulty getting the ball to Curry and Randolph. Until we get better guard play to make our offense run more smoothly, the team is always going to have problems because there is no way the current set of players is going to be anything more than an average defensive team.

Do we even have an offense? Do the Knicks run actual plays?
https:// It's not so hard.
franco12
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10/19/2007  12:11 PM
the two questions I have-

1. has dolan forbade isiah from trading this years pick

2. how many games do we need to loose this year for Dolan to fire Isiah? And do we have a shot of this happening in season?
TheGame
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10/19/2007  12:13 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by TheGame:

IMO the problem is the offensive execution. Our team relies on jumpshooting too much. That stems from the fact that the guards have difficulty getting the ball to Curry and Randolph. Until we get better guard play to make our offense run more smoothly, the team is always going to have problems because there is no way the current set of players is going to be anything more than an average defensive team.

Do we even have an offense? Do the Knicks run actual plays?

Dude, I could not tell. I was thinking the same thing last night. NJ was running play after play or either fastbreaking, and it looked like we would just come down and play street basketball. The only play it looks like they can actually execute on any consistent basis is the lob pass to Curry. We have two great lowpost players and we can never get them the ball or alot of times don't even try to get them the ball. The offensive execution needs serious work.

[Edited by - thegame on 10-19-2007 12:15 PM]
Trust the Process
BasketballJones
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10/19/2007  12:15 PM
Maybe with all the focus on defense (for all the good that has done) Isiah hasn't had time to work the team on offense.
https:// It's not so hard.
franco12
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10/19/2007  12:16 PM
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by TheGame:

IMO the problem is the offensive execution. Our team relies on jumpshooting too much. That stems from the fact that the guards have difficulty getting the ball to Curry and Randolph. Until we get better guard play to make our offense run more smoothly, the team is always going to have problems because there is no way the current set of players is going to be anything more than an average defensive team.

Do we even have an offense? Do the Knicks run actual plays?

Dude, I could not tell. I was thinking the same thing last night. NJ was running play after play or either fastbreaking, and it looked like we would just come down and play street basketball. We have two great lowpost players and we can never get them the ball or alot of times don't even try to get them the ball. The offensive execution needs serious work.

And this falls to either the coach for not developing & instructing properly or to the GM for getting players that don't follow simple instructions.

I posted this during the summer league- I'd rather watch that roster of players (give me collins, dnic, chandler, lee, morris & balkman) loose 60 games, but grow, than watch our overpaid vets loose 40 -50 games.
RemBee76
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10/19/2007  12:18 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Killa, you're not wrong per se, but you have to admit that Ward, Houston, Spree, McDyess, KT and Motumbo is a far more realistic team than what we have going on now.

Ward, Houston, KVH (Layden's one decent trade numbers wise) McDyess, KT and Motumbo were 9-19.

And it’s academic anyway, as mid-way into the season Houston gets injured. The team above probably finishes the season with about 25 wins without Houston. If that.


Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
Bippity10
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10/19/2007  12:18 PM
Where's Nixluva? I think we need him to set you guys straight.
I just hope that people will like me
Panos
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10/19/2007  12:20 PM
Nixluva is in rehab.
BasketballJones
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10/19/2007  12:21 PM
Posted by Panos:

Nixluva is in rehab.

LOL
https:// It's not so hard.
BlueSeats
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10/19/2007  1:05 PM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Killa, you're not wrong per se, but you have to admit that Ward, Houston, Spree, McDyess, KT and Motumbo is a far more realistic team than what we have going on now.

Ward, Houston, KVH (Layden's one decent trade numbers wise) McDyess, KT and Motumbo were 9-19.

And it’s academic anyway, as mid-way into the season Houston gets injured. The team above probably finishes the season with about 25 wins without Houston. If that.


Rem, did you read the thread? I came in after both Broggs and Killa set up the hypothetical that Dyess and Houston were in good health. Dyess never played a single regular season game healthy as a Knick, and Houston's knees were on their way out. But were those not the case...
RemBee76
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10/19/2007  1:26 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
But were those not the case...

If Pigs could fly...

If McDyess was completely healthy putting up 20 ppg and 12 rebs, would Denver ever have traded him to us?

And I still like a semi-healthy Houston (knees on the way out and all) next to Marbury better than any combo above. The two were averaging 40 ppg with Marbury almost getting 10 assists per game in the period they played together.

And of course, the biggest question with Layden was what was going to happen when the veteran-laden team he put together started to break down. Even Kurt Thomas couldn't finish seasons strong with his bad knees by the time Isiah got here. Spree had one good season for the T-Wolves after the trade, and Charlie Ward was done. So how long could your "fantasy" team be together, and what happens to the team when they have run their course?
Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
RemBee76
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10/19/2007  1:27 PM
Oh, and I forgot...

How nice would it be to have Camby right now?
Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
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