I know there have been various discussions on racism in these forums--mainly black/white issues. And while there will be differences and incidents that will plague us from time to time. IMHO from my own personal experiences--I have never seen radical hate for African Americans--in fact I view white and black Americans as the backbone of the country. I know when all is said and done white and black people have each others back as American citizens who see their kids grow up in our country. Is everything perfect--no--is everything perfect in any family no but I feel it will continue to get better and better. I also believe that Spanish and Mexican Americans will also come to the fore-front and it is happening quickly. The problem that I see in America is something I watched on TV today--well at least some snippets of what happened. the president of Iran spoke here today and you can just see the pure hatred in the air from Americans and even his own mouth. I don\\\'t know if I can honestly trust Middle eastern people anymore--and there are a LOT of great people from those countries--but it\\\'s impossible to dictate who is what. I know Americans black white Spanish Asian etc.. except for extreme cases aren\\\'t going to run into a high school with a bomb and blow themselves up with some of OUR kids in it. they wont run into a mall filled with kids women and children and blow it up. But I fear that this CAN happen from someone who does not fear to do it--who has mind to ideology only. I think the answer will have to start with discontinuing short term visas and rooting out people from these countries who are on terrorist watch lists. It\\\'s better to be safe than sorry and the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. I think a way out of this is to be on the safe side until things blow over[hopefully not literally]

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 09-24-2007 3:41 PM]

We should cease all civil liberties and put electronic "identification" bugs under the skins of citizens and aliens alike, until this blows over (as if it ever will). This electronic bug will not only be your identity card, replacing passport and drivers license, but your credit card and money source as well. This way all movements and transactions can be monitored by the state, and whoever opposes the government can be satellite tracked and have their identities ad funds remotely shut down at the governments choosing.

That is the direction this country is headed, and it takes us farther and farther from the democracy, governed by and for the people, that we hope to be.

Till this all blows over of course...

The leaders and lawmakers here in the USA need to remember WHY we are being targeted by the terror groups.

It aint that deep.

Talk about bigotry. You sound like a southern white man. " I dont know if we can trust our white women around these blacks." Thats basically what youre saying.

Theres so much hatred from the Iranian president because he was elected as a hateful president. Think about it. We invaded the country to the west, that we destroyed over 10 years with sanctions, all to take their oil supply. Theres NO ONE with a rational mind who thinks otherwise. We invaded the country to the right which was housing the "mastermind" of 9-11. Yet we didnt catch him, all we did was take over and build some oil pipelines. How do you think the people of Iran would react other than voting in a hateful guy. Imagine Iran invaded Canada and Mexico, how would WE feel?

And as far as terrorism goes, there is a problem with islamic fundamentalism and its sweeping the world. But that LAST thing that will save us from it is becoming more Dystopian and Totalitarian. That has never done ANYTHING good in any country. The problem isnt just blowing over, because this is an ancient conflict and the greedy Conservative will NEVER give up the oppurtunity to war and rob another greedy Conservative.

And you mention them running into a mall and blowing up women and kids? Have you ever seen the pictures of Iraq? When we invaded? Talk about dead women and children. You dont ruin countries, kill peoples families and expect NOTHING to happen.

I will confess a dark dirty little secret I harbor...I'm not sure the preservation of our culture is the salvation of man it's made out to be.

When I look at the future of the planet I see a dark future. Over population, over industrialization, diminishing resources, elevated toxicity, etc. I see humanity destroying their natural means for existence almost under the best of circumstances.

I know many who think that intellectuals and technocrats will find a way to figure things out, like by creating massive computerized distribution networks to reduce waste and take advantage of economies of scale, etc. I jut don't see it working. For one thing it sounds like Soviet Communism, for another it's the intellectuals who devise the earth raping technologies ad control the international banking systems through which we control nations. I'm not even certain that equitable means is our goal.

I just can't think of an evolution of technology that can save our species and planet because these technologies always lead to longer life expectancies, greater over populations and more efficient means of natural destruction.

There's a little part of me who believes that turning back the hands of time is the only way to save the species. If we could eschew technology and live off the land as we did thousands of years ago we might have a chance, and this is the way that many of these religious fundamentalists would have it. Surely a place like Afghanistan will be one of the most destroyed locales on earth by the time we are done with it, but left to their own devices, come judgment day, they may have been one of the last outpost standing. The same might be said for any society left untouched by the west.

Don't think there are extremists out there that don't think they hold the salvation of the species in their hands, and don't be so sure they are wrong.

Just a somewhat different perspective to chew on now and again...

Yes, Isreal has not at ALL been blowing up Palestianians in the last 40 years. Or bombing them, or anything. And America's so great, they havent secretly been installing dictatorships and getting involved in Middle Eastern governments all over the 20th and 21st century.

And yes Europe should never have bombed Hitler! I mean its not like he had a uniformed army and was setting out to take over the world! And the only thing that stopped him as long as it did was plain dressed resistences bombing his storm troopers when they would invade a country promising to make it a better place and elmininate the "bad people'. Doesnt sound like anything America would ever do.

And to break with my sarcasm, yes, America DOES bomb when it doesnt get their way. You are aware we funded and supplied Saddam for decades, trained Osama Bin Ladin, and gave the Taliban 160 million dollars in 2000 and 2001. But the second any of these guys started "getting out line" and not doing what we wanted them to do, suddenly they found themselves bombed.

Posted by nykshaknbake:

Yeah, it's really America's fault. You can't blame the terrorists. All other cultures blow things up when they don't get their way. If you give people what they want they will leave you alone generally. It works for Isreal. It worked for all of Europe in WWII.

Posted by kam77:

The leaders and lawmakers here in the USA need to remember WHY we are being targeted by the terror groups.

It aint that deep.

Posted by kam77:

The leaders and lawmakers here in the USA need to remember WHY we are being targeted by the terror groups.

It aint that deep.

Sort of like the women in some of these terror based countries need to remember why they are stoned to death if they dont obey a man?

Or how women lose their jobs and passports if they dare to drive a car?

Or how their families are murdered if a woman runs away with man not choosen to be her husband?

Yeah terrorists are real fair rational thinkers.

Just the other day a Bin ladin tape reportedly told everyone to become Muslim or die. Nice that he is so rational that he gives us a fair choice.

Posted by oohah:

Dear Briggs,

Please take a look at terroristic incidents in this country over the past 20 years: The OKC bombing, shooting sprees, assassinations and attempts etc. You will find that this activity has been engaged in predominantly by white people.

Then, take a look at such incidents in this country over the past 200-300 years: Again, predominantly white people.

Then take a look at the jails, violent criminals, and run-of-the mill violent incidents in this country. You will find Middle-Eastern people at the bottom of this list.

Then ask yourself why you don't trust Middle-eastern people. Could it be the propaganda machine that is rolling against them?

Turn off the Fox news channel and make friends with a local Arab, because that is who I assume we are really talking about. I'll bet you meet a pretty nice person, and I wouldn't be surprised if they agree with you on more than you might think.

Best,

oohah

Couldnt have said it any better way Oohah!!! I second your thought!!! Thank you!!!

I fear those associated with the whitehouse cronies. ISRAELI special forces and the CIA in america along with Cheny and rumsfeld than I do middle easterners.

Nonono, you got me all wrong. Appeasement all the way! We should pay Al-Queada reparations for the lives lost during suicicde bombings; lives which wouldn't have been lost if AMerica wasn't such an evil country!

Posted by toodarkmark:

Yes, Isreal has not at ALL been blowing up Palestianians in the last 40 years. Or bombing them, or anything. And America's so great, they havent secretly been installing dictatorships and getting involved in Middle Eastern governments all over the 20th and 21st century.

And yes Europe should never have bombed Hitler! I mean its not like he had a uniformed army and was setting out to take over the world! And the only thing that stopped him as long as it did was plain dressed resistences bombing his storm troopers when they would invade a country promising to make it a better place and elmininate the "bad people'. Doesnt sound like anything America would ever do.

And to break with my sarcasm, yes, America DOES bomb when it doesnt get their way. You are aware we funded and supplied Saddam for decades, trained Osama Bin Ladin, and gave the Taliban 160 million dollars in 2000 and 2001. But the second any of these guys started "getting out line" and not doing what we wanted them to do, suddenly they found themselves bombed.

Posted by nykshaknbake:

Yeah, it's really America's fault. You can't blame the terrorists. All other cultures blow things up when they don't get their way. If you give people what they want they will leave you alone generally. It works for Isreal. It worked for all of Europe in WWII.

Posted by kam77:

The leaders and lawmakers here in the USA need to remember WHY we are being targeted by the terror groups.

It aint that deep.

First of all Id love to believe, that Iraq was invaded for this one good reason of helping the oppressed people in the country, but I can not it was for the oil and the money!!!

Iran being a terrorist society is just not right!!! Bash the governement as much as you want, I will gladly join in, and for good reason!!!
But you obviously have NO idea of the Iranian people, so dont judge them or go there and get a first hand impression! You might even be suprised, that you are not stoned out right by police forces!!!
Is this governement just a shame and is it wrong (in my oppinion) that religion and policy is not seperated?! HELL YES!!! But hey I also bash on the Bush governement for the same reasons!!!

What people dont get is that the middle east and arab world is culturally and historically not able to move in the exact same footsteps of the west. And it is right to find their own ways to deal with the growing interest of their young people in "world wide" values like consume of luxury goods, freedom of mind and speech and such... some of those things are good some are arguably not, but give them their space to develope inside their cultural ideels.

Do I wanna justify terrorism... HELL NO!!! But those people act like that for a reason!!! Does this justify it?!? NO!!! But at least try to take this into account in your thoughts!!!