What Isiah said makes him worse than Imus
By Jemele Hill



http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hill/070921&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab4pos2

My favorite commercial growing up was the one Isiah Thomas did for a local electric company in Detroit.

In the commercial, Thomas -- known strictly to me back then as Zeke -- would go around town, giving people helpful reminders about unnecessary electrical use and warning us kids about dangerous wires.

Too bad someone wasn't there to warn Thomas about the electrical wire he stepped on when he gave a frighteningly sexist and racist answer during his videotaped deposition in the sexual harassment suit that's making the New York Knicks' frosty split with Larry Brown seem like a mere misunderstanding.

In short, Thomas is now battling Don Imus for who has said the most insulting thing about black women. Thomas was asked if it's true that a white male executive referred to Anucha Browne Sanders -- a black female executive suing the Knicks because she claims she was fired for complaining about Thomas' unwanted sexual advances and inappropriate comments toward her -- as a "bitch."

Thomas denied the incident, adding, "A white man calling a black woman a bitch … that is a problem for me."

As a follow-up, Thomas was asked if he would be bothered if a black man used the same derogatory term -- which is pertinent since Thomas and Knicks point guard Stephon Marbury both have been accused of calling Sanders the b-word. "Not as much," replied Thomas, who has denied Sanders' accusations. "I'm sorry to say. I do make a distinction."

Let's be clear: Scores of black men don't run around calling black women "bitches," and they find the idea just as distasteful as the rest of us. And every self-respecting black woman I know would go Jet Li on anyone who ever called her the b-word.

But you don't get that impression from listening to Thomas -- or, for that matter, from Marbury, who admitted under oath he may have called Browne Sanders a bitch, just not a "black bitch," like she accused.

Nevertheless, Thomas is now on record giving quasi-approval to calling black women "bitches," and that's just as reprehensible and damaging as Imus labeling the Rutgers women's basketball team "nappy-headed hos." At least the Rutgers women got only one dose of Imus. Thomas was Sanders' boss, so she was exposed to his ignorance every day.

Those who really believed Imus picked up his insult from listening to hours of 50 Cent must have gotten a good laugh from Thomas' testimony, because acquitting the aging shock jock now seems legitimate. If one of the NBA's 50 greatest players thinks there is nothing wrong with disrespecting black women, then why should people like Imus have any fear of doing the same?

Black folks should be just as upset with Thomas (and Marbury) as they were with Imus. African-Americans should be canceling season tickets to the Knicks, and if Sanders' case is proven, Thomas should join Imus in the unemployment line.

If we let Thomas off the hook, African-Americans will have fallen into the same old trap: castigating white people for their racist behavior, but then giving a free pass to influential black people who are just as demeaning.

Besides, what Thomas said is far more detrimental to the black community than what Imus said! Thomas, as a high-level executive in charge of one of the most storied franchise in sports, wields considerably more influence over African-Americans than Imus. Black kids aspire to be like Thomas, not Imus.

As it is, black women have a difficult enough time dealing with barriers created by race and gender and the less-than-flattering images of us that have become a fixture in pop culture. Lots of rap songs aren't deemed complete unless a black woman is called a bitch. Black comedians can't complete a routine unless they refer to black women as bitches and hos. Networks like VH1 and BET regularly present black women as being no better than your average, garden-variety chickenhead.

Entertainment certainly can't be blamed for society's ills, much less those in the black community. But we don't need someone like Thomas -- once named one of the 50 Most Powerful Blacks in Sports -- co-signing stereotypes that Americans overdose on every day.

And in case you're wondering, Thomas has a daughter.

Thomas' words make for a much more difficult fight when someone like Imus comes along.

Do as I say, not as I do is a flawed philosophy that African-Americans have clung to for far too long. Instead, we should all embrace the profound words of Martin Luther King Jr.: Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.

Oh my god, finally someone gets it right!!!

Martin Luther King Jr.: Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.

QFT

Posted by nixluva:

This get's back to the underlying problem in the Black community. Self Hate. We've had this issue for years. If you're demeaned and held down long enough for the color of your skin then eventually you get to the point where you almost hate the skin you're in. Then even after some time has come along and Blacks in general have begun to love themselves a bit more, the old thinking is still there from past generations having passed it along to their children. The Slave mentality is going to be with us for a lot longer.

You hear it in the lyrics of rap, which is only a reflection of what has always gone on in the Black community. If you try to excel in school then others will say "who do you think your are?" "You think you're white or something?" IF you speak without a heavy ebonic accent you get the same kind of scorn. If you listen to the way young black men speak to each other when arguing, it's clear that this self hate is heavy. Then you bring women into it and it's even worse. Just watch any video or listen to a group of guys berate a girl that walks by and doesn't give them the time of day and you'll hear the self hate and demeaning of women. The strange thing is that it seems to have gotten worse, which you wouldn't think would happen.

Isiah should know better and strive to be a better example. I can't imagine what he was thinking when he said those things. Maybe it just came out wrong. It's hard for me to imagine that he meant it was OK for a black man to call a black woman a B. From what he actually said you could assume that he meant it was less offensive to him personally. That's not the same as saying it's OK for a black man to do it as is being argued. He never said that. He said he found it less offensive. Now we could get into WHY he feels that way. I wouldn't feel it was any less offensive, but for some reason he did.

do you think Isiah should be held accountable as Imus has been? by losing his job?

Posted by nixluva:

Posted by martin:

Posted by nixluva:

This get's back to the underlying problem in the Black community. Self Hate. We've had this issue for years. If you're demeaned and held down long enough for the color of your skin then eventually you get to the point where you almost hate the skin you're in. Then even after some time has come along and Blacks in general have begun to love themselves a bit more, the old thinking is still there from past generations having passed it along to their children. The Slave mentality is going to be with us for a lot longer.

You hear it in the lyrics of rap, which is only a reflection of what has always gone on in the Black community. If you try to excel in school then others will say "who do you think your are?" "You think you're white or something?" IF you speak without a heavy ebonic accent you get the same kind of scorn. If you listen to the way young black men speak to each other when arguing, it's clear that this self hate is heavy. Then you bring women into it and it's even worse. Just watch any video or listen to a group of guys berate a girl that walks by and doesn't give them the time of day and you'll hear the self hate and demeaning of women. The strange thing is that it seems to have gotten worse, which you wouldn't think would happen.

Isiah should know better and strive to be a better example. I can't imagine what he was thinking when he said those things. Maybe it just came out wrong. It's hard for me to imagine that he meant it was OK for a black man to call a black woman a B. From what he actually said you could assume that he meant it was less offensive to him personally. That's not the same as saying it's OK for a black man to do it as is being argued. He never said that. He said he found it less offensive. Now we could get into WHY he feels that way. I wouldn't feel it was any less offensive, but for some reason he did.

do you think Isiah should be held accountable as Imus has been? by losing his job?

1st it has to be proved that he actually called Anucha a B. If not then his statement in the deposition isn't enough. All he said was that he found it "less" offensive for a black man to call a black woman a B, but he wasn't saying that it was acceptable or right or that he would allow such a thing or do such a thing. Imus was live on air saying the things he did. There's a HUGE difference. Now if Isiah actually did call here a B then I believe he should be fired.

Marbury called Brown a bitch but not a black bitch. Do you want him off the team? Maybe he could just focus on God and giving away sneaks.

Posted by nixluva:

This get's back to the underlying problem in the Black community. Self Hate. We've had this issue for years. If you're demeaned and held down long enough for the color of your skin then eventually you get to the point where you almost hate the skin you're in. Then even after some time has come along and Blacks in general have begun to love themselves a bit more, the old thinking is still there from past generations having passed it along to their children. The Slave mentality is going to be with us for a lot longer.

You hear it in the lyrics of rap, which is only a reflection of what has always gone on in the Black community. If you try to excel in school then others will say "who do you think your are?" "You think you're white or something?" IF you speak without a heavy ebonic accent you get the same kind of scorn. If you listen to the way young black men speak to each other when arguing, it's clear that this self hate is heavy. Then you bring women into it and it's even worse. Just watch any video or listen to a group of guys berate a girl that walks by and doesn't give them the time of day and you'll hear the self hate and demeaning of women. The strange thing is that it seems to have gotten worse, which you wouldn't think would happen.

Isiah should know better and strive to be a better example. I can't imagine what he was thinking when he said those things. Maybe it just came out wrong. It's hard for me to imagine that he meant it was OK for a black man to call a black woman a B. From what he actually said you could assume that he meant it was less offensive to him personally. That's not the same as saying it's OK for a black man to do it as is being argued. He never said that. He said he found it less offensive. Now we could get into WHY he feels that way. I wouldn't feel it was any less offensive, but for some reason he did.

good post, I agree

Isiah should know better to say something dumb like that-
If he has a belief system in his own mind that justifies it that's not going to be enough when you're on TRIAL in NEW YORK for SEXUAL HARASSMENT
One thing Isiah is not- is slick. He acts like a slick guy but instead he's actually very obvious in everything he does. His personality gets him in trouble a lot more than a real slickster would ever allow.

I think if Isiah called her a bitch, that's awful. I don't have a problem with him saying it was "less offensive" for a black to call a black that name. He was giving his honest opinion and he even acknowledged it was an opinion he felt uncomfortable with. (I think he said something along the lines of he was "sorry to say" he felt that way.) It was poor judgment to say this publicly, though. You should deal with your own issues in private. The "less offensive" comment is not criminal by any means though!

Imus is a good dude. I don't care about Abrown because she probably is a bitch.

Posted by martin:

What Isiah said makes him worse than Imus
By Jemele Hill



http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hill/070921&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab4pos2

My favorite commercial growing up was the one Isiah Thomas did for a local electric company in Detroit.

In the commercial, Thomas -- known strictly to me back then as Zeke -- would go around town, giving people helpful reminders about unnecessary electrical use and warning us kids about dangerous wires.

Too bad someone wasn't there to warn Thomas about the electrical wire he stepped on when he gave a frighteningly sexist and racist answer during his videotaped deposition in the sexual harassment suit that's making the New York Knicks' frosty split with Larry Brown seem like a mere misunderstanding.

In short, Thomas is now battling Don Imus for who has said the most insulting thing about black women. Thomas was asked if it's true that a white male executive referred to Anucha Browne Sanders -- a black female executive suing the Knicks because she claims she was fired for complaining about Thomas' unwanted sexual advances and inappropriate comments toward her -- as a "bitch."

Thomas denied the incident, adding, "A white man calling a black woman a bitch … that is a problem for me."

As a follow-up, Thomas was asked if he would be bothered if a black man used the same derogatory term -- which is pertinent since Thomas and Knicks point guard Stephon Marbury both have been accused of calling Sanders the b-word. "Not as much," replied Thomas, who has denied Sanders' accusations. "I'm sorry to say. I do make a distinction."

Let's be clear: Scores of black men don't run around calling black women "bitches," and they find the idea just as distasteful as the rest of us. And every self-respecting black woman I know would go Jet Li on anyone who ever called her the b-word.

But you don't get that impression from listening to Thomas -- or, for that matter, from Marbury, who admitted under oath he may have called Browne Sanders a bitch, just not a "black bitch," like she accused.

Nevertheless, Thomas is now on record giving quasi-approval to calling black women "bitches," and that's just as reprehensible and damaging as Imus labeling the Rutgers women's basketball team "nappy-headed hos." At least the Rutgers women got only one dose of Imus. Thomas was Sanders' boss, so she was exposed to his ignorance every day.

Those who really believed Imus picked up his insult from listening to hours of 50 Cent must have gotten a good laugh from Thomas' testimony, because acquitting the aging shock jock now seems legitimate. If one of the NBA's 50 greatest players thinks there is nothing wrong with disrespecting black women, then why should people like Imus have any fear of doing the same?

Black folks should be just as upset with Thomas (and Marbury) as they were with Imus. African-Americans should be canceling season tickets to the Knicks, and if Sanders' case is proven, Thomas should join Imus in the unemployment line.

If we let Thomas off the hook, African-Americans will have fallen into the same old trap: castigating white people for their racist behavior, but then giving a free pass to influential black people who are just as demeaning.

Besides, what Thomas said is far more detrimental to the black community than what Imus said! Thomas, as a high-level executive in charge of one of the most storied franchise in sports, wields considerably more influence over African-Americans than Imus. Black kids aspire to be like Thomas, not Imus.

As it is, black women have a difficult enough time dealing with barriers created by race and gender and the less-than-flattering images of us that have become a fixture in pop culture. Lots of rap songs aren't deemed complete unless a black woman is called a bitch. Black comedians can't complete a routine unless they refer to black women as bitches and hos. Networks like VH1 and BET regularly present black women as being no better than your average, garden-variety chickenhead.

Entertainment certainly can't be blamed for society's ills, much less those in the black community. But we don't need someone like Thomas -- once named one of the 50 Most Powerful Blacks in Sports -- co-signing stereotypes that Americans overdose on every day.

And in case you're wondering, Thomas has a daughter.

Thomas' words make for a much more difficult fight when someone like Imus comes along.

Do as I say, not as I do is a flawed philosophy that African-Americans have clung to for far too long. Instead, we should all embrace the profound words of Martin Luther King Jr.: Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.

Papabear says

Young lady you need to get a lesson on black history. How dare you compare Zeke to that Imus. For over 20 years he has been making fun of black girls and black folks in general. You must not have seen Zeke;s interview. I've been in the supermarkets or at the mall and I've heard young black woman saying to each other. HEY HOE! WAT UP HOE!! and you know that I'm right. Now if a white woman walked up to them and said Hey Hoe they would be ready to fight. What Zeke said should make everyone think!!
When white folks get together they say things and jokes that they would not say around blacks because they no it's offensive but they'd be laughing thier hearts out around thier people.
WAKE UP BLACK SISTER AND OBSERVE WHAT THEY ARE TRYING TO DO!! AND SAY!!
Hey Hey Stop it Stop it!! Imus had years and years making a living on calling people names like bitches and uncle Tom and other names. Now you are trying to compare Zeke to him??? I don't think so. Hey when I hear a rap song and a brother is calling a girl a bitch I don't like it. The same way if a black man called me a niga. Now if a white man called me a niga it would be more offensive. If a white guy called a black sister a bitch it would bother me more. Zeke said he found the word offensive no matter who said it but all you Zeke hatters continue to leave that out.
And one other thing, Black folk don't own the major record companies. I'll tell you one thing though and this is said not to critize the Jewish people. If one of thier own made rap records calling Jews a name equal to calling someone a niga, he would be history. This is a compliment to the Jewish people they stick together. When black rappers first started using the words nigga and bitch we should have stopped then in thier tracks. Some of us tried but the white folks owned the record companies and they was getting paid big time.
Isiah ain't no Imus and who ever tried to compare him to Imus is a very sick Zeke Hatter and an Imus Lover.

Papabear

Let’s make it clear.
We have 2 men representing the Knicks team and indirectly us - NY fans.
They have no respect for woman, no tact for racial stuff; no clue how to represent themselves and organization in public. On top of this they never achieve anything with the Knicks.
Why they are still around?
And why is anybody still supporting them?