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Randy Moss--Zach Randolph
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BRIGGS
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9/17/2007  12:20 AM
Is there a parallel with Randy Moss and Zach Randolph? Randy Moss is looking darn good and has been the MVP of the league so far imho--tremendous impact that they traded a 4th round pick for. He\'s better than any guy in the draft. He\'s kind of forgotten about playing with a God-awful Raiders team that was in disaray kind of like the Trailblazers were. I was just looking at Chris Bosh\'s numbers last year and they are nearly identical to Zach\'s--meaning we may be taking it for granted how much the talent level may ahve changed with his aquisition. Obviopusly all sports are two way--offense and defense--and there are many intangibles and chemistry questions that go into making a good team. But you would think that with many of the players being healthy and together for a period of time and UPGRADING the PF position should have a material effect on this team? I mean if this team plays smart and hard--uses a longer bench throughout the season[because that is one of our key strengths that we can use not to wear down] I mean shouldn\'t we be considerably better?
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93BUICK
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9/17/2007  1:04 AM
YES.
PF has been a weak spot for us for a long time. We didn't lose anyone in the deal to get him that we will miss- so how can it not be a big upgrade?
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metra
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9/17/2007  1:33 AM
Zach Randolph could be like Randy Moss, just not in the Raiders to Pats sense. More like the Vikings to Raiders sense. Zach Randolph getting traded to a team that's one piece away from winning every year (Dallas, Phoenix, even Cavs) might be like Moss to the Pats. But Randolph to the Knicks is just adding to the mess. We need someone with mental toughness, character, and leadership - someone who deserves to be called captain - so that we can finally start building right. That captain can put someone like Randolph to use a la Brady to Moss.

Until that happens Randolph will be more cancerous than productive. We might get into the first round and maybe Knicks fans will be happy. Until they realize that this first round appearance won't translate to a finals berth for at least three (I really could say five) years. That is, until we can get someone who can responsibly lead the team.
EnySpree
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9/17/2007  2:11 AM
Isiah described them as "dogs". Isiah did a terrible job getting them in the begining but through the draft he has successfully brought in a couple of them.

Knicks are still a few short of becoming a full fledged force but they are on the right path.

I just hope as the days go on isiah can continue to add the right type of players.
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Cookdcokehop
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9/17/2007  2:52 AM
We need a Tom Brady first
NYKniCksFan87
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9/17/2007  5:10 AM
we need someone on the opponents side to decipher to play 1st
''We don't have the luxury to take anybody lightly,'' New York's Quentin Richardson said. ''We're not that good.''
Ira
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9/17/2007  5:33 AM
It was a very interesting trade, because we made our two strongest areas of play - inside scoring and rebounding - stronger. It was a no brainer, because Frye wasn't doing much. But anyway, the Knicks will be a team of great strengths and great weakness. Our strengths, as I said are inside scoring and rebounding. We'll be among the leagues best in those areas - and might even be dominant on the boards and inside. Our weaknesses are 3 point shooting, turnovers, shot blocking and perimeter defense. We'll need to make progress in some of these areas before we become a top team.
Mac
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9/17/2007  5:34 AM
Moss quit on the Raiders at times... He would walk lethargically to the line whenever it was a run play, be lazy in practice, and stuff like that. I think Vince Carter is a better parallel than zach.
fishmike
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9/17/2007  8:39 AM
maybe the real question should be

is there a parellel between Tom Brady and Stephon Marbury?

Anything can happen!
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
misterearl
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9/17/2007  8:43 AM
Briggs - thank you for an absolutely brilliant analogy between Moss and Randolph

Unlike Mac, who questions Zach's "work ethic" I don't remember the word "lazy" ever being used to describe Randolph. Ever. Quite the contrary, most depictions describe a "gym rat" who is dedicated to improving his craft.

with regard to metra's statement

"We need someone with mental toughness, character, and leadership - someone who deserves to be called captain - so that we can finally start building right. That captain can put someone like Randolph to use a la Brady to Moss."

That is patently false because the "captain" has nothing to do with "building". The captain, at best, is the enforcer of the coach's directives when said coach is not present. Best recent Knicks example is Larry Johnson, who was NOT captain, but respected because of his blunt demeanor. My co-captains are Renaldo Balkman and David Lee.

Who is to say that Zach himself, who is only 26 years old, cannot evolve into the role of a team leader?

Besides, anyone who pre-judges a player as "cancerous", has NEVER set foot in a professional locker room. Players don't care about labels.



[Edited by - misterearl on 09-17-2007 08:51 AM]
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Nalod
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9/17/2007  8:54 AM
Mister,

Your co-captains as likable as they are, have yet to earn their strips.

They make the effort, but have yet to establish themselves thru the league or with the refs.

Also it up to Snake Isiah to annoint his floor general.

Maybe Its Zachs turn to step up and be the man on and off the court. New surroundings.
Allanfan20
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9/17/2007  9:01 AM
Misterearl, Larry Johnson WAS a captain. He was a tri captain along with Patrick Ewing and Allan Houston.

Maybe down the road, David Lee can be a captain, once he makes his footprints around the league better known, and once the Knicks start winning, but it's too soon. He's still a losing player around the league just remember, as are everyone else on the roster besides Malik and MAYBE Quentin.

Renaldo? You kidding? The guy is all hustle and all heart, but he hardly speaks, he hardly CAN speak, he's not even a second year player yet, and barely got off the bench last season. He's done nothing to earn that.
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Silverfuel
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9/17/2007  9:06 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

Is there a parallel with Randy Moss and Zach Randolph? Randy Moss is looking darn good and has been the MVP of the league so far imho--tremendous impact that they traded a 4th round pick for. He\'s better than any guy in the draft. He\'s kind of forgotten about playing with a God-awful Raiders team that was in disaray kind of like the Trailblazers were.
good post. I sure hope it turns out that way BRIGGS.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
EnySpree
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9/17/2007  9:11 AM
But zack susby dog it for Portland. He went 23/10. If that's dogging it then what does his numbers look like when he is trying?

I think the point is more moss playing for a bad team as compared to him playing for a machine like the patriots.

Knicks are far from a machine but I just think about the billions of time channing miss timed rebounds and pushed off his position. The pain watching channing post like he's being guarded by a brick wall. The annoyance of Frye passing up shots, and not even trying to create his own space. Zach destroys those problems. I'm not worrying about what zach is gonna bring to the team. The problem is defending the 3 and turnovers. (which is a team problem not a Crawford problem)
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misterearl
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9/17/2007  9:21 AM
Nalod - Saint Isiah drafted Lee and Balkman while people were looking in other directions. Why NOT make them captains?

Allanfan20 - Forget the "C" sweater for a moment. Houston was window dressing and Patrick Ewing never appeared to be comfortable in a lead role. Larry Johnson was Van Gundy's locker room enforcer.

David Lee is still a losing player around the league? Get real, David Lee has established a great reputation in his first 2 seasons.

allanfan20 - I strongly represent your false interpretation of both Knicks from your Celtic-centric perspective. You have no facts and thus you have no standing other than a biased invalid opionion.

Renaldo Balkman was extremely vocal in LasVegas. And he was vocal in a variety of subtle and outspoken tactics with both players and officials. When Nate tried to go into an in-game tirade, Renaldo was the first to grab him by the collar and get in his face to calm him down.

When a bad went against the Knicks he approached the referee into a timeout and pleaded his case in a subtle manner, without showing up the official. Next time down the floor the Knicks get a "make up" call.

Balkman is EXACTLY the type of player you make captain because it sends a message that "it's not where you start but where you finish". Nobody liked Balkman on draft night. He worked his way into the hearts of Knicks fans. I think some will be pleasantly surprised to watch how he asserts himslf this year.

That's good enough for me.
once a knick always a knick
arkrud
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9/17/2007  9:36 AM
There is NO captain on losing team.
Jagr reject it even when did it all alone to resurrect the Rangers.
And he accepted this only after club makes it clear that they are on the winning ways.
When Knicks start winning the captain will show up... but till now - we have just a bunch of losers.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
EnySpree
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9/17/2007  9:43 AM
Captains are for gays or at least for high school or college.

The knicks had LJ, ewing, and oakley. Still the knicks had men like childs, spree, Houston, camby, and just about every other plater on the roster.

We forget the guys are men. As men you have to know what you have to do to keep the team together. You don't need LJ to swing his dick around intimidating the rest of the players into doing the right thing.

Also, lee and balkman can be captains. They don't need respect around the league. All that matters is what the guys in his own locker room think.

Again its all bull****. Isiah has to continue to shape the chemisty by picking up the right type of MEN to play this game together. This group knows each other and they fight. The ones that didn't fight are gone. Hopefully the knicks can keep taking steps forward. I think these guys trust each other and now with zach they believe in each other even more.
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arkrud
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9/17/2007  9:51 AM
Posted by EnySpree:

Captains are for gays or at least for high school or college.

The knicks had LJ, ewing, and oakley. Still the knicks had men like childs, spree, Houston, camby, and just about every other plater on the roster.

We forget the guys are men. As men you have to know what you have to do to keep the team together. You don't need LJ to swing his dick around intimidating the rest of the players into doing the right thing.

Also, lee and balkman can be captains. They don't need respect around the league. All that matters is what the guys in his own locker room think.

Again its all bull****. Isiah has to continue to shape the chemisty by picking up the right type of MEN to play this game together. This group knows each other and they fight. The ones that didn't fight are gone. Hopefully the knicks can keep taking steps forward. I think these guys trust each other and now with zach they believe in each other even more.

OK. Who are the MAN on Knicks team?
Bunch of youngsters and malcontents.
Steph is a MAN? Zack is a MAN? May be jerom or nate?
Come on... Are you kidding?
We have only one MAN - Isiah and he is more like mofo papa.



"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
MS
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9/17/2007  9:54 AM
Yes Randy Moss was probably the most explosive weapon in the entire league, and then got in a bad situation in oakland and had a bad attitude because the organization was a disgrace, which is the only parellel I see with Zach coming to the knicks.

Zach comes to an organization coming off a career year, which Moss did not have the past two years and there are no questions about his skill. They are both labelled as selfish players.

The Patriots are the most well run organization in sports, the knicks are perhaps the worst. The patriots have a good strong veteran support system, the knicks have the biggest disgrace in the league, supporting vick, doing tv interviews high, cheating on his wife regularly and then going to court and smiling like an ******* after the organization takes another huge hit.

So I see no link between the two. Other than troubled pasts
misterearl
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9/17/2007  11:16 AM
Cheaters

MS - the Patriots cheated. They cheated.

Cheated!

or do you conveniently overlook that fact?
once a knick always a knick
Randy Moss--Zach Randolph

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