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Proving RGM Has Good Posters: "ZBO'S USAGE RATE"
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bobs3304
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9/1/2007  5:59 PM
basically last season he had easily the biggest usuage rate of any post player in the league (30.2).

in fact no post player in history has a career usage rate as high as the one Zach had last season .in fact the post player with the highest usage rate in history karl malone(28th , its really a guard dominated stat) has only exceeded 30.2 2 times in his whole career

basically it leads me to these conclusions,

it wont be nearly that high next season but it should be be pretty high, probably in the low 20's

Zach is a good bit better with the ball than given credit for, if he's not passing then he shouldn't be, no one gets the ball that much if they aren't making good decisions with it....

the knicks probably will be a top 5 team in the league on offense next year as far as efficiency.

the knicks if reasonably healthy , with or without artest will be good enough on offense that it wont matter how bad they are on defense until the playoffs , which they will make with about 45-50 wins...teams dont get players this good at a position of need without a significant move up the standings.

Zeke probably should trade balkman or lee for artest , they are essentially 3/4's (lee maybe shades more to the 4 than a 3) essentially they will be fighting for the same minutes off the bench , there are only so many minutes behind Q and zach, it would seem smarter to trade 1 get value for him rather than let the both waste their talents getting far fewer minutes than they deserve in competition with each other.


- from MadGrinch, RGM.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
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EnySpree
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9/1/2007  7:05 PM
So there IS a stat that can prove zach is a beast. Cool.



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nixluva
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9/1/2007  8:05 PM
I came across that usage stat on Hollinger's Stats at the ESPN Insider section. Just about everywhere you look Zach stands out as a top player. His PER, Usage etc. He's a plus player. Lee is probably a midrange jump shot away from being a similar player in terms of high productivity. That's why I don't want to get rid of him. I think we've got an unusually impactful group of PF/C's on this team. We just need to get the chemistry right with these guys playing together. Zach, Curry and Lee forms a solid foundation in the frontcourt, offensively and on the boards.

I agree that this team looks like it should be a top offensive team. If we can play more efficiently and tighten up the perimeter D just enough we should be able to get to a plus number in terms of Point differential. The presence of Zach should help us to get there. We won't be a good defensive team, but an efficient offense can be our best Defense.
Bonn1997
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9/1/2007  8:58 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

So there IS a stat that can prove zach is a beast. Cool.
This post doesn't say what "usage" is but I'm guessing it has something to do with frequency of shot attempts, which in itself is neither a good nor a bad quality.
bobs3304
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9/1/2007  9:49 PM
Posted by nixluva:

I came across that usage stat on Hollinger's Stats at the ESPN Insider section. Just about everywhere you look Zach stands out as a top player. His PER, Usage etc. He's a plus player. Lee is probably a midrange jump shot away from being a similar player in terms of high productivity. That's why I don't want to get rid of him. I think we've got an unusually impactful group of PF/C's on this team. We just need to get the chemistry right with these guys playing together.

Completely agree. If Zach added just a little more defense, and kept his head out of his ass, I think he can be a shoe-in All-Star in the East.
Zach, Curry and Lee forms a solid foundation in the frontcourt, offensively and on the boards.

Disagree whole-heartedly about Curry. Can't be trusted with the ball in his hands despite his beastly scoring.

He turns the ball over too much, he'll never really have a reliable jumpshot, and I just think his basketball IQ is not something you can improve.

He's like one of those mentally handicapped kids that are incredibly strong. He's a battering ram that should be used sparingly (like 30 minutes a game max).



[Edited by - bobs3304 on 09-01-2007 9:50 PM]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
bobs3304
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9/1/2007  9:52 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by EnySpree:

So there IS a stat that can prove zach is a beast. Cool.
This post doesn't say what "usage" is but I'm guessing it has something to do with frequency of shot attempts, which in itself is neither a good nor a bad quality.


Usg Usage Rate is the number of possessions a player uses per 40 minutes.

Usage Rate = {[FGA + (FT Att. x 0.44) + (Ast x 0.33) + TO] x 40 x League Pace} divided by (Minutes x Team Pace)


Basically the entire offense ran through Zach last year. Switch him with Curry, and I don't see that happening.

Randolph is a better passer (underrated), a great offensive rebounder, has a solid jumpshot, and is arguably every bit as dominant in the post as Curry (youtube him).

He lit Gasol up for 43 and 17 last year.


[Edited by - bobs3304 on 09-01-2007 9:53 PM]

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 09-01-2007 9:58 PM]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Bonn1997
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9/1/2007  9:59 PM
Posted by bobs3304:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by EnySpree:

So there IS a stat that can prove zach is a beast. Cool.
This post doesn't say what "usage" is but I'm guessing it has something to do with frequency of shot attempts, which in itself is neither a good nor a bad quality.


Usg Usage Rate is the number of possessions a player uses per 40 minutes.

Usage Rate = {[FGA + (FT Att. x 0.44) + (Ast x 0.33) + TO] x 40 x League Pace} divided by (Minutes x Team Pace)


Basically the entire offense ran through Zach last year. Switch him with Curry, and I don't see that happening.

Randolph is a better passer (underrated), a great offensive rebounder, has a solid jumpshot, and is arguably every bit as dominant in the post as Curry (youtube him).


[Edited by - bobs3304 on 09-01-2007 9:53 PM]
That's basically what I thought. So it's neither good nor bad in itself. It includes turnovers, missed field goals, and missed free throws (in addition to made FGs and FTs). My interpretation is that the 24 PPG he had last year is misleading because he'd never get that many shots on a good team. He's still a good scorer; just not a great one. He'd probably be in the 17 to 19 PPG range on a good team.
bobs3304
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9/1/2007  10:06 PM
^ Yea that sounds about right.


He takes A TON of shots, but hits just below 50% from FG, and he doesnt turn the ball over. He just needs to work in the post more IMO; get fouled more b/c he's 80+% from FT line, and improve his D a bit.


I think on a playoff team he could be a 20 and 10 player. Imagine him and Bron together, or him and T-Mac.



[Edited by - bobs3304 on 09-01-2007 10:06 PM]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Bonn1997
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9/2/2007  12:02 AM
Posted by bobs3304:

^ Yea that sounds about right.


He takes A TON of shots, but hits just below 50% from FG, and he doesnt turn the ball over. He just needs to work in the post more IMO; get fouled more b/c he's 80+% from FT line, and improve his D a bit.


I think on a playoff team he could be a 20 and 10 player. Imagine him and Bron together, or him and T-Mac.



[Edited by - bobs3304 on 09-01-2007 10:06 PM]
That's fair enough. I was thinking more of a well-balanced, championship level team like San Antonio or Dallas.
bobs3304
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9/2/2007  12:37 AM
On a championship WINNING team he'd be the 3rd best player (if he played his role), and would probably get 17 and 9 on 48% shooting, 80% FT, a steal and 3 assists a game (since he'd be relied on more to fascilitate and put up some defense rather than score).

But because of how much mulla he makes, that'll never happen, not even under Mark Cuban.


Best you could hope for is teaming him up with a Lebron or Kobe or somebody, who won't be winning a chip until Duncan and Shaq retire (8 out of 9 last chips)
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Papabear
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9/2/2007  10:59 AM
Papabear says

Curry will improve his game up a notch this season. ZBO will be the beast he is. Something we must remember, We are the New York Knicks and no matter how bad we are or how good we are, every team will step up a notch to play against the Knicks. The New York MSG is the Mecca of basketball which mean we must bring our A game every night.Zach, Curry , Lee, Marbs, and Crawford should start. Let's work Q in very slowly because I've got a funny feeling that his back injury will be tested by teams. He does not need no more than 15 - 20 min on the floor right now.We won't have much defense in our starting line up but lots of offense. Now if Artest comes in everything changes. But I'd wait for Artest because we already know that he is coming next season so whoever gets him will have to accept the fact that he is comming to New York sooner or Later and so will Kobe Bryant I hope.

Papabear
Papabear
bobs3304
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9/2/2007  2:03 PM
Dude, I don't like you.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Anji
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9/3/2007  5:35 AM
Yeah, I couldnt give a damn about Hollering or whatever number he is pushing that is times Pi and divided by how many even days my girl has in her menstrual cycle..... Zach is not going to work on the knicks because he is a total black hole. With all his great "usage", it hasn't helped the players on his team at all playing with Zach, because he is like marbury, he sucks the air/life/ability out of the players around him with his ball hog tendinitises.



[Edited by - Anji on 09-03-2007 05:39 AM]
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
bobs3304
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9/3/2007  7:24 AM
^ Totally agree.

And the reason I said it was a good post was because it actually backed up an arguement instead of that senseless garbage that most posters over there peddle.


DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
nixluva
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9/3/2007  10:29 AM
Posted by Anji:

Yeah, I couldnt give a damn about Hollering or whatever number he is pushing that is times Pi and divided by how many even days my girl has in her menstrual cycle..... Zach is not going to work on the knicks because he is a total black hole. With all his great "usage", it hasn't helped the players on his team at all playing with Zach, because he is like marbury, he sucks the air/life/ability out of the players around him with his ball hog tendinitises.
Zach has some work to do in terms of improving his passing, but he's not that bad. For some reason in his last month of action he avg'd 3.7 assists. If he learned anything from that perhaps he can keep that kind of mentality when he plays for us. He needs to see himself as a player that can have a greater impact on the game with his passing skills. He needs to get a bit more accurate with his passing. Maybe that was beginning to happen last year.

There are certainly better passers than Zach and he does take a lot of shots, but not as many guys as you might think avg an ast or more than he does. Here in NY I would expect that his shots will come down by a couple. But let's not forget that he's a scorer and that's his primary skill. IF he's not scoring or grabbing a rebound you want him making a good pass. You're not expecting him to block shots, cuz that's not his thing. So i'm hoping that he continues to try and improve his passing. I think he has the ability to do it.
bobs3304
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9/3/2007  11:33 AM
Dude you're missing the point.

Zach is like Marbury.

And the only stat that matters is wins.

He's a career loser, just like Steph.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
arkrud
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9/3/2007  12:45 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

Dude you're missing the point.

Zach is like Marbury.

And the only stat that matters is wins.

He's a career loser, just like Steph.

Second it.
Players, even the greatest one, cannot win alone.
Only well organized, properly coached, team of players who decided to sacrifice the personal stats for the win can be successful on NBA level.
It is irrelevant for this matter which stats marbs, Z-bo, Eddy personally have. If the players IT assembled can be the TEAM we will have some great things coming. If not - we will suck more than ever




[Edited by - arkrud on 09-03-2007 12:46 PM]
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
EnySpree
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9/3/2007  1:19 PM
Career loser?
This is a team sport. Good teams win.

Zach, marbs and the knicks will win together this year. Only thing that can stop it is injuries. Even injuries won't really deter the knicks this time. Collins, lee, Nate, balkman? This time the knicks will be better.

Complaining about zachs ability to pass is petty.

The real problems with the knicks have been on defense. Guys aren't doing their jobs. Isiah came out and said exactly what was wrong and that is defending the 3pt line. The knicks can get away with the "matador" defense as long as the stop leaving league leaders open for 3's. Interior defense has to do with stopping the ball. Blocking shots can help but the main thing is stopping the guy from just practicing lay-ups all day.

Again the major thing is defending the 3pt line.

Offensively the knicks needed to find a way to make defenses get off currys back. Zack is there. Both simply can't be guarded one on one. Double teams are hit and miss with either cuz they can still score with the double.

Nobody can stop marbs from driving. Nobody can stop craw off the dribble. Same with Nate and Collins. Nobody on the knicks right now is afraid of the 4th quarter. Isiah got rid of all the pussies. The bench gets up and cheers no matter who is out there.

Enough is enough. Go knicks.
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nixluva
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9/3/2007  1:23 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

Dude you're missing the point.

Zach is like Marbury.

And the only stat that matters is wins.

He's a career loser, just like Steph.
I don't agree with that assessment. You have to look at the situation with the team he was on. Was a team that was built to win? Did he fit in with the new direction the team had been heading in? IMO the answer to both would be NO! That doesn't mean that he can't win here or that he won't fit into our scheme. Good players end up on losing teams all the time in this league. It doesn't mean that they're career losers, in the sense that they're somehow responsible for all the losing. This is a team sport it's not Singles Tennis. The emphasis is on TEAM. When his team sucked and he didn't think he could win with them, Kidd wanted to be traded, as did VC and Kobe. Even the best players need help to win.

I think Zach will be in a better situation here and that should lead to wins. He'll be a key piece but not the only piece. On this team he won't be the only star player and that should balance things out more. It's doubtful that he'll be able to dominate the ball on this team. Not that we want him to change entirely. Just to share the load a bit more than he's had to in the past.
arkrud
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9/3/2007  2:04 PM
Knicks have a lot of players with a lot to prove.
Some failed this task before. Some young and never get a chance yet.
I would say only 2 of the whole team are proven players - Malik and Lee.
And we know what they can do. One can only influence the locker room and another just starting.

Do I believe that all of them will suddenly turn it around? Not really.
But 2-3 guys may be.
Will see soon...
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
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