Posted by TMS:

it's the owners' fault for not properly training those dogs & for letting them get out to enter someone else's house in the first place... pitbulls are dangerous animals when their owners don't take the time & energy to property train & restrain them.

That can be true to an extent but they even have studies of wild pitbulls that attack other animals and people for no reason. Pitbulls are not only dangerous animals cause of their owners they are dangerous period. In 05 the providence of Ontario banned Pitbulls and in the UK they are under the "Dangerous Dog Act" stating that it is illegal to own a pitbull without permission from the court and with that you still have to put a muzzle on them.

[Edited by - CDB on 08-22-2007 11:41 PM]

CDB, a dog is a dog. Any dog can attack any person at any period. If an owner has a pit bull, it's his/her responsibility to be talking that dog out for walks and runs for at least an hour and a half or so a day. That's at least. If that's not the case, they have no business getting a pit bull. The reason is not b/c they have an instinct to attack. No dog has an instinct to attack for no reason. The reason they attack is 1) they have so much energy build up from a lack of excercise, and 2) because they aren't taught any discipline from their owners. #1 is the biggest reason though.

The reason we just say Pit Bulls have "Instincts to attack" is b/c they are powerful breeds, and when they do attack humans, they are powerful enough to hurt a human. But you gotto realize, rottweilers, boxers (The dog I have), german shepards, mastifs, great danes and all those dogs have killed people on many occasions, and it has absolutely nothing to do with instincts.

If we want to have a powerful breed of dogs live in our homes, it is our responsibility to give them the excercise and discipline all the time, and to also do research and maybe seek help from a pro, BEFORE getting the animal in the first place. They are not "Dangerous at heart." They are animals and nothing more. NOT MONSTERS!

I guarantee you that little chiwawas attack people just as much, but this doesn't get reported, b/c they are little and not strong enough to kill people.

You get a dog, you accept the responsibilities. Otherwise, you're gonna end up with an unbalanced dog, who can potentially become UNNATURALLY dangerous.

Posted by Allanfan20:

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by TMS:

it's the owners' fault for not properly training those dogs & for letting them get out to enter someone else's house in the first place... pitbulls are dangerous animals when their owners don't take the time & energy to property train & restrain them.

So are you suggesting it is not part of a dog's nature to attack without human interference?

Phar, these dogs were bred to fight, by people, to become an even more powerful breed. I believe they are crosses of bulldogs and pit terriors, but I'm not positive. Makes the most sense. But the people trained these dogs to become fighters. However, their nature is to be DOGS, pack animals, who need to migrate with other dogs, just like wolves.

Wolves? Hmmm, I don't think I'd go that far. They can be trained to be killers or tame. A lot of people who train them to be killers, they are fascinated with the fact that the pitbull can lock it's jaws onto something. That's the common excuse I hear for training them that way. Most dogs natually bark, if a stranger is at hand. They act as a distractor first, and possibly an attacker second, if someone is up to no good and a dog can even detect if someone is given off bad vibes. If you show fear, a dog senses that. If you approach a dog with confidence, it is less likely to feel threatened. Once it gets to know you, it can be very friendly. I have had instances, where a dog would come charging after me and the rule is to stop dead in your tracks, let the dog run up and even jump up to you. Don't look it in the eyes or making any kind of moves and I can pretty much guarantee that it will back off. I've even had a dog try to push me, to get me to run so it could attack, but I didn't move and it was forced to back off and then walk away. Works every time. I have never had an experience with a pitbull or a rot (that's been trained to attack), so I don't know if they would be as forgiving. In almost every case, it comes down to fear. I can tell you this. In society, for every dog that attacks a person, you can pretty much see that it was 'trained' to do so, by a human being. Dogs are sociable animals. If brought up right, they can socialize. Some you just have to give them the space to investigate and let them assure themselves of you first. Maybe a little biscuit or some food goes a long way to building a long friendship.

4949, the reason I say Wolves is because dogs have the instincts of wolves. They are pack animals. They are carnivores. They need leadership, otherwise they assume it (Hence, so many bad dog owners, b/c the owners don't know how to assume leadership), and they migrate a lot. Regular house dogs need all that stuff just likes wolves do. If they were stray, they would run around the streets for miles and miles a day if they didn't get caught. And if they had the option, it would be to run around with other dogs, preferably of it's own kind. Those are the dogs instincts. Not to attack a human being viciously for no reason, unless of course, they saw it as food, but if the owner didn't neglect the dog, that wouldn't be a problem either.

Pit Bulls have strong jaws b/c they were bred that way. Pit Bulls are good candidates to fight b/c they were bred that way. But in the natural world, the only dog fights you'd see is to assume leadership of the pact, or to fight for a male. Not to viciously assault eachother.

CDB, I am sorry that you got attacked by that dog, and I understand why you might be hesitant to approach any dog at this point. However, I think you are giving the pit bull a bad rep, when you really should be pointing to your own kind. PEOPLE!

Dogs in general are creation of men.
There are dogs trained and breaded to save people and... kill people.
Dogs are used by police, in jails to guard inmates, by border guards.
Dogs were used by Nazi to mutilate and kill people but this do not make dogs Nazis
Dogs can be used as weapon and owner must follow the low how to keep this weapon safe for others.
In Russia if dog killed person his owner will be responsible for murder.
My neighbor get 10 years in jail when his dog killed the man.
I think it's fair.



[Edited by - arkrud on 08-23-2007 2:15 PM]

[Edited by - arkrud on 08-23-2007 2:15 PM]

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by TMS:

it's the owners' fault for not properly training those dogs & for letting them get out to enter someone else's house in the first place... pitbulls are dangerous animals when their owners don't take the time & energy to property train & restrain them.

So are you suggesting it is not part of a dog's nature to attack without human interference?

So are you suggesting it is ok for humans to interfere and encourage dogs to attack unabated?

i've been attacked more by little ratlike Chihuahua's in my day than i have by large dogs like pitbulls or rottweilers... got attacked by a german shepherd once for no reason whatsoever... he just popped out of the bushes while i was walking in front of the owner's house & he was off his leash... who's fault is that, the dog's or the owners?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/23/dog.fighting/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- Dogs bred for the fighting pit have only one thing in their future: death. Fighting dogs may die in the ring or at the hands of their owners. If they are confiscated in a bust, they are almost always euthanized, experts say.

Thursday is the deadline for owners to retrieve any of the 53 pit bulls seized in April from the Virginia property of suspended Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick, who is accused of using them in vicious dogfights. A federal judge is expected to issue a court order to euthanize the animals.

Officials and animal rights advocates agree that the dogs must lose this last battle for their lives because of their brutal training and risks to people and other animals.

"They're just not in any situation where they can be adopted," said Dr. Lauren Adams, a veterinarian with Emory Animal Hospital in Decatur, Georgia. "They can snap at any point."

Of the 1.4 million dogs euthanized at shelters last year, roughly half were pit bull types, according to the latest data from Merritt Clifton, editor of Animal People. The pit bull is not a breed but a type that includes American Pit Bull Terriers, American Staffordshire Terriers, Staffordshire Bull Terriers, and pit bull mixes, according to the Pit Bull Rescue Central Web site. Clifton and other experts estimate anywhere from 25 to 50 percent of pit bulls euthanized at shelters were fighting dogs.

"Those dogs have been bred for aggression. You can breed for certain physical traits, but you can also breed for behavioral characteristics," said Wayne Pacelle, president of the Humane Society of the United States.

Dogs that lose the fights often are abandoned at shelters, but not all of them make it that far. Owners sometimes kill the dogs that don't win. Court documents from the Vick case say "the losing dog was sometimes put to death by drowning, strangulation, hanging, gun shot, electrocution or some other method." Learn about the dark world of dogfighting »

If the dogs do make it to shelters, they are usually euthanized quickly. Keeping them alive puts a burden on shelters, which can be held legally responsible if anything goes wrong, and puts the other animals at risk. Video Watch why some say euthanasia is the only option for fighting dogs -- viewer discretion advised »

"It's very difficult to deprogram that behavior once it is instilled," Pacelle said. "Even if you can do it to some degree, all it takes is one lapse in the animal's behaviors to kill another animal or exhibit some other type of aggression."

Additionally, shelters face the threat of theft. In the United States, there are an estimated 40,000 people who are considered professional dogfighters and another 100,000 amateur "streetfighters," according to John Goodwin, an expert on animal fighting with HSUS. Those involved compete for prizes as high as $100,000, and confiscated pit bulls are extremely valuable.

Inside the overpopulated shelters, where it's survival of the most adoptable, shelters focus their limited resources on the dogs that stand a better chance of finding a home.

The stigma associated with pit bull types has victimized the "good" pit bulls, Pacelle said. In some shelters, as many as 60 percent of dogs are pit bull mixes. More than 90 percent of pit bulls in shelters -- fighters or not -- end up euthanized, said Clifton, who has been researching animal shelters for more than three decades.

But pit bulls can make great family pets when bought from breeders and raised properly, said Marcy Setter, director of education at the Pit Bull Rescue Center. In fact, in the early 1900s, pit bulls were characterized as "nanny dogs" because they were used by families to baby-sit their children.

"By the end of the century, they were these horrible, aggressive, fighting dog machines, and that's very unfortunate," said Ed Boks, general manager of Los Angeles Animal Services in California.

The secondary fighting market has contributed to over breeding of pit bulls, Clifton said. The market creates a place where people can sell dogs as disposable commodities -- like pigs or chickens -- at much lower prices than would be invested in a pet, he said. These disposable dogs are designed to fight until they can fight no more.

"It was back in the '70s, '80s and '90s when people discovered just how loving these animals are -- so loving that they would fight to the death to please their owners," Boks said.

A dog's loyalty to its owner is what keeps it fighting, according to Setter. Some dogs can be rehabilitated after months of behavior training, she said, but she would never advise a family to rescue a former fighting dog.

"Those dogs literally come out of the ring and want nothing more than a hug," she said, but "it's a dog that will never like other dogs again."

Considering the risk the fighting dogs pose to shelters, potential owners and other animals, "they just don't have a chance," Clifton said.

"You can compare it to what happens with exotic cats and people who keep tigers in their backyard. It's not the tiger's fault, but you are still on the menu. They are victims, but you do have to treat them as animals that belong in maximum security."