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ranking knicks starting shoting guard past/present
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jazz74
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8/16/2007  10:06 AM
again, this is from 92 and if anyone want to rank those before hand i would appreciate it. also it is top 5 so i left some out like gerald wilkens.


1.) latrell sprewell:
scoring- 9
3 pt- 7
drive/layup- 10
awareness- 9
pass- 6
defense- 9
athelticism/ dunk- 9
speed- 9
clutch- 8
shot creation- 10

2.) allan houston:
scoring- 10
3pt- 10
drive/layup- 6
awareness- 8
pass- 8
defense- 7
athleticism/dunk- 7
speed- 7
clutch- 9
shot creation- 7

3.) john starks
scoring- 8
3 pt- 8
drive/ layup- 8
awareness- 7
pass- 7
defense- 9
athleticism/ dunk- 8
speed- 8
clutch- 8
shot creation- 8

4.) jamal crawford:
scoring- 7
3 pt- 7
drive/layup- 7
awareness- 7
pass- 9
defense- 6
athleticism/ dunk- 7
speed- 9
clutch- 10
shot creation- 9

5.) hubert davis ( yes, he did start for us during the nellie era)
scoring- 6
3 pt- 8
drive/layup- 6
awareness- 5
pass- 6
defense- 5
athleticism/ dunk- 5
speed- 6
clutch- 7
shot creation- 5
AUTOADVERT
Allanfan20
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8/16/2007  10:27 AM
Crawford shouldn't be mentioned on the same list as these guys, except Davis, and I like JC.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
NYKBocker
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8/16/2007  10:50 AM
I would put Gerald Wilkins over Jamal and Hubert.

The best SG we ever had that did not get any burn was Rolando Blackman. I use to watch the practices in SUNY Purchase and Blackman would abuse everyone during scrimmages.
Pharzeone
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8/16/2007  11:29 AM
You can't Spree on that list if he wasn't used as a shooting guard. Remember the "flawed team" thing. He was used as a SF. Also, I have an issue with Houston clutch factor. His biggest shot as a Knick was 1999 round one but he is normally not considered clutch. He had a significant amount of turnovers in close games. No way is Crawford only a 7 on athleticism/dunk. http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/jamalcrawford.htm
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
bishop
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8/16/2007  11:39 AM
How does Allan Houston get a score of 8 on passing and Sprewell gets a 6 in the same category? Sprewell was a much better passer. He averaged something like 4 a game. At the same time Houston never managed to average more then 2.7 assists per game in any of his seasons as a player.

I'd say defensively Houston was no better than a 6 on defence. In comparison to Crawford he atleast tried to play D even though he sucked at it. That would make Crawford like a 4 on D.
bishop
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8/16/2007  11:47 AM
No way Crawford is a 10 as nbadraft says on athleticism/dunk. Vince is a 10, Kobe is a 10, Igoudala is a 10. Crawford seems about right at a 7 or max at 8.
Pharzeone
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8/16/2007  11:57 AM
Posted by bishop:

No way Crawford is a 10 as nbadraft says on athleticism/dunk. Vince is a 10, Kobe is a 10, Igoudala is a 10. Crawford seems about right at a 7 or max at 8.

Crawford is still one of the most athletic players in the league. He doesn't rely on his athleticism like other players. There's a difference. He is more in love with shooting but don't be fooled. Coming out of Michigan he was considered a freak. I agree that he doesn't showcase his athleticism enough though. I think part of it with him is that he is a player that shies away from contact while the others you listed do not.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Ira
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8/16/2007  1:35 PM
2.) allan houston:
scoring- 10
3pt- 10
drive/layup- 6
awareness- 8
pass- 8
defense- 7
athleticism/dunk- 7
speed- 7
clutch- 9
shot creation- 7

3.) john starks
scoring- 8
3 pt- 8
drive/ layup- 8
awareness- 7
pass- 7
defense- 9
athleticism/ dunk- 8
speed- 8
clutch- 8
shot creation- 8


I have to take issue with these grades. Houston had a better shot than Starks. But his awareness, passing and athleticism weren't as good as Starks.
Ira
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8/16/2007  1:37 PM
Regarding earlier players, Earl Monroe and Dick Barnett were as good as any guards we ever had. Ray Williams was one of the better ones. It's a long time since I've seen them play, so I won't attempt to give a detailed account.
Pharzeone
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8/16/2007  3:24 PM
Posted by Ira:
2.) allan houston:
scoring- 10
3pt- 10
drive/layup- 6
awareness- 8
pass- 8
defense- 7
athleticism/dunk- 7
speed- 7
clutch- 9
shot creation- 7

3.) john starks
scoring- 8
3 pt- 8
drive/ layup- 8
awareness- 7
pass- 7
defense- 9
athleticism/ dunk- 8
speed- 8
clutch- 8
shot creation- 8


I have to take issue with these grades. Houston had a better shot than Starks. But his awareness, passing and athleticism weren't as good as Starks.

Starks could dunk well for his size but Houston could be the better athlete. Well the one that played for the Pistons anyway.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
NewYorkSoul
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8/16/2007  6:24 PM
are you all forgetting that Houston was in the dunk contest one year?
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COSSUCKS
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8/16/2007  7:46 PM
Ray Williams before he hurt his knee could play with any of those guys. Ray was a legit 20ppg sg for a while
Ira
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8/16/2007  10:37 PM
Ray could (and did) also play the point. He was a very good passer for a sg.
Elite
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8/17/2007  12:18 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by bishop:

No way Crawford is a 10 as nbadraft says on athleticism/dunk. Vince is a 10, Kobe is a 10, Igoudala is a 10. Crawford seems about right at a 7 or max at 8.

Crawford is still one of the most athletic players in the league. He doesn't rely on his athleticism like other players. There's a difference. He is more in love with shooting but don't be fooled. Coming out of Michigan he was considered a freak. I agree that he doesn't showcase his athleticism enough though. I think part of it with him is that he is a player that shies away from contact while the others you listed do not.
bishop
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8/17/2007  8:19 AM
Don't get me wrong, Crawford is very athletic, i'm not denying that. He rarely takes it to the rack/dunks which doesn't help his case. A score of 7 or 8 is good athletically but a score of 10 is for absolute freaks of nature.

While the Crawford picture is nice; these are real 10s.


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jazz74
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8/17/2007  8:54 AM
Posted by Ira:
2.) allan houston:
scoring- 10
3pt- 10
drive/layup- 6
awareness- 8
pass- 8
defense- 7
athleticism/dunk- 7
speed- 7
clutch- 9
shot creation- 7

3.) john starks
scoring- 8
3 pt- 8
drive/ layup- 8
awareness- 7
pass- 7
defense- 9
athleticism/ dunk- 8
speed- 8
clutch- 8
shot creation- 8


I have to take issue with these grades. Houston had a better shot than Starks. But his awareness, passing and athleticism weren't as good as Starks.

as far as awareness, houston was more fundamentally sound than stakrs. i love styarks but he was a loose cannon out there and made planty of mistakes with decisions and passing. that is why it is lower than houston. true, houston passed the ball less because most of the plays were designed with him in mind but he did make smart passes and decisions with the ball. i did rank starks more athletic but houston is only one notch below because he did have hops earlier in his career. and for a sidenote, starks was in the dunk contest too and in the beginning of his career he relied entirely on his athleticism to get by on defense and offense. crawford is athletic but like someone said he doesn't rely on it. remember that only in the past couple of years that we are actually seeing him drive the lane to get shots. that is why his drive is low as well as athleticism. i casn't raise his stats because of that one dunk he did on boston three years ago off the backboard because he rarely dunks.
Silverfuel
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8/17/2007  10:15 AM
Posted by jazz74:

2.) allan houston:
scoring- 10
3pt- 10
drive/layup- 6
awareness- 8
pass- 8
defense- 7
athleticism/dunk- 7
speed- 7
clutch- 9
shot creation- 7

4.) jamal crawford:
scoring- 7
3 pt- 7
drive/layup- 7
awareness- 7
pass- 9
defense- 6
athleticism/ dunk- 7
speed- 9
clutch- 10
shot creation- 9
I don't agree with this at all! Houston gets more for awareness than Crawford? Crawford can actually play the point and knows whats going on around him! Houston was a catch and shoot player. And he is rated higher on defense? Houston tried on defense only in 1999. The rest of the years he let up considerably. Crawford is atleast as bad if not better than Houston on defense. They should both get a 6 in my opinion.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Silverfuel
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8/17/2007  10:17 AM
And how can you give Houston an 8 on passing? His highest ever was 3 a game! Sprewell's highest ever was 6 per game and he was consistently better in assists per game than Houston was as a Knick. Come on....
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Silverfuel
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8/17/2007  10:20 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:

Starks could dunk well for his size but Houston could be the better athlete. Well the one that played for the Pistons anyway.
I don't agree. Houston was very fundamentally sound and perfect for what he did. He was an excellent jump shooter but I don't think he was a better athlete than Starks. I think Houston's injury took a lot away from his general longevity but he was never a great athlete. I cannot put it in words why I think Starks is better so it would be great if we can come up with parameters to compare Starks and Houston in this category.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Silverfuel
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8/17/2007  10:24 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:

You can't Spree on that list if he wasn't used as a shooting guard. Remember the "flawed team" thing. He was used as a SF.
Thats true but Spree had to play out of position. His true position is SG so I don't think its bad to include him in the list. I think Spree was one of the best SG's the Knicks have had in the last decade.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
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