Is it just me, and maybe its because Im older, but the starts the 80s into the 90's just seem far superior to the players of today. Like I watch footage of old Knicks games from 1992, 1993 and I watch highlights of the Dream Team. And the players all seem to be at a higher level, higher talent, and just more focused and better.

I think maybe its that whole "players in my day were better" feeling, but I watch the NBA today and San Antonio doesnt strike me as a team that wouldve done all that well against the Knicks, Bulls, Lakers, Pistons of those days. Cleveland made it to the finals, on one player's back. And just overall, I watch the players, the stars, and they lack a certain x-factor. Maybe its because the contracts went from 3 million to 20 million a year. Maybe the young players just expected to be stars, get huge contracts, and dont want to work for what they have. Man I sound old.

Either way there are some highlights on Youtube from my favorite playoff series of all time, the 1992 playoffs vs the Bulls. I still remember Ewing spraining his ankle and playing hurt (which no one ever, ever brings up.) And he would score a bucket and X-Man would pick him up and they would do a chest bump. And the Starks clothesline of Scottie Pipen. Who I hated so much back then. What an amazing playoff.

I remember that summer waiting for a trade, and when the trade with the Clippers happened, I thought it was a mistake. Mark Jackson was a bad defender, and at times had bad turnovers. But imagine we had traded Greg Anthony (who was a hot prospect after his rookie year) and draft picks for someone like a Reggie Miller (who was seen as a sort of bad character and failed potential at the end of 1992), or someone else. Imagine the Bullets hadnt matched the contract for Harvey Grant. And we kept the X-Man.

Pat Ewing/ Herb Williams
C Oakley/ A Mason
H Grant/ X-Man
R Miller/ J Starks
M Jackson/ ?

Ahhh. Memories.

Individually I think players today are just as talented if not more so. Athletically they are more talented. In the 80's 7 footers lumbered up and down the court. Now they play the 4 and initiate the offense. What has changed in my opinion is the team game. In the "old days" when things broke down, the PG on the floor reset the play and ran it again. Today, when things break down the PG on the floor clears it out and goes one on one. The team game has been shattered in this day and age. It's all about the individual.

Posted by K22:

Well, the Spurs (as boring as they are) play the way they did "in the old days" and they've been championship contenders for the last 8 years - taking half of those chips. It may not be COMPLETELY dead but it is getting phased out.

It's not a coincidence

its the new rules that make it frustrating to watch, the NFL is like that too. The defensive 3 second violation is such a technicality that it takes away from the game, so does the bent elbow rule.

In the NFL, I grew up loving the watching the Giants on defense, and seeing Guyton and Jackson bust heads in the secondary. That rarely happens anymore because of the rules. The "in the grasp" stuff is crap too. The Titans game last year with Vince not being called "in the grasp" and running for 40 yards made it even more of a joke.

to be fair, the defenses being played back then was a lot more physical... you can't get away w/half the stuff you used to get away with back then... i agree though, that the Spurs of today wouldn't have stood up to the Jordan Bulls, but i think they would have given the Olajuwon Rockets a good run for their money if not beaten them.

Posted by BlueSeats:

It's league dilution too. In the past it wasn't as hard to obtain and keep a core of guys who could contend for years on end. As an example, the stability of the Spurs plays no small role in their continued success.

I agree with that. There were less teams, which meant more talent per team. If players wanted to be in the league they had to learn how to shoot and pass and dribble and defend because there were less spots. Now with the league diluted there is more room for one trick pony's.

I've had a few guys on my team that were NBA ready(in terms of skills) the moment they came to the first practice. They can handle, jump through the roof and are absolutely unstoppable offensively. Yet as good as they are offensively, that's how bad they are defensively. They have absolutely no understanding of how to play the team game. Anytime you try to explain to them(even in the nicest of tones, which is how Bip normally starts) they think you are trashing their game. You are an adversary as a coach from the get go. It's so frustrating. These kids normally go on to play at some small college, scoring 20+ pts per game and never being heard from again. And they can't figure out why.

The kids are skilled, but noone is teaching them discipline and how to play the team game. When a coach stands up and tries to teach he is called a "disciplinarian". Some guys are lucky enough to be so skilled that someone drafts them because of their ungodly ability. Those guys go on to the NBA to frustrate the hell out fans because their amazing skills never have an effect on their teams record.

Posted by Panos:

Bip, I think you need to come to one of our games and give us pointers...

You don't want me there. I'm guessing that within 15 minutes of watching all the standing around on defense(judging by the photos), all the balls would be put away and we'd be doing defensive drills until the sun went down. And no one is allowed to do defensive drills with a hamburger or a cigarette in their mouths.

Posted by Panos:

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by Panos:

Bip, I think you need to come to one of our games and give us pointers...

You don't want me there. I'm guessing that within 15 minutes of watching all the standing around on defense(judging by the photos), all the balls would be put away and we'd be doing defensive drills until the sun went down. And no one is allowed to do defensive drills with a hamburger or a cigarette in their mouths.

Not really. Those photos were misleading. But I'd be glad to get pointers on either side of the ball (drills included).

Okay but this is the way things normally went with the people I coached in high school.

Day one: Deathly afraid of me because of the stories they've heard(which are normally exaggerated. Or are they?)
Day two: They want me out of their lives
End of month one: They plan my death.
End of year one: They tune me out and actually start moving forward with their plans of killing me
End of year two: They realize that they have to listen in order to survive, but still hate me
End of year three: They begin to tolerate me and get really good at doing impressions of me
Middle of year four: They listen to every word I say as if it was gospel, but they still hate me. Impressions of me are perfected
End of year four: They love me, and want to spend all their time reminiscing about years one through four. The impressions are hilarious, all the yelling I did turns out to be funny. And the thanks I receive are endless.

Now that I normally only have players for one or two years I have to condense all my yelling into a shorter time frame. That's a lot of yelling in a short amount of time. Most people can't handle it :). Now imagine if I had to condense all that yelling into one day of pickup games. You'd be deaf.



[Edited by - bippity10 on 06-08-2007 4:45 PM]

[Edited by - bippity10 on 06-08-2007 4:54 PM]

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by Panos:

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by Panos:

Bip, I think you need to come to one of our games and give us pointers...

You don't want me there. I'm guessing that within 15 minutes of watching all the standing around on defense(judging by the photos), all the balls would be put away and we'd be doing defensive drills until the sun went down. And no one is allowed to do defensive drills with a hamburger or a cigarette in their mouths.

Not really. Those photos were misleading. But I'd be glad to get pointers on either side of the ball (drills included).

Okay but this is the way things normally go with the people I coached in high school.

Day one: Deathly afraid of me because of the stories they've heard(which are normally exaggerated. Or are they?)
Day two: They want me out of their lives
End of month one: They plan my death.
End of year one: They tune me out and actually start moving forward with their plans of killing me
End of year two: They realize that they have to listen in order to survive, but still hate me
End of year three: They begin to tolerate me and get really good at doing impressions of me
Middle of year four: They listen to every word I say as if it was gospel, but they still hate me. Impressions of me are perfected
End of year four: They love me, and want to spend all their time reminiscing about years one through four. The impressions are hilarious, all the yelling I did turns out to be funny. And the thanks I receive are endless.

Now that I normally only have players for one or two years I have to condense all my yelling into a shorter time frame. That's a lot of yelling in a short amount of time. Most people can't handle it :). Now imagine if I had to condense all that yelling into one day of pickup games. You'd be deaf.



[Edited by - bippity10 on 06-08-2007 4:45 PM]

Yeah, well, not sure either of us had 4 years, but I've survived on the court with raw skills and pure hustle, so any pointers on my game would by extremely appreciated.

Posted by Panos:

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by Panos:

Bip, I think you need to come to one of our games and give us pointers...

You don't want me there. I'm guessing that within 15 minutes of watching all the standing around on defense(judging by the photos), all the balls would be put away and we'd be doing defensive drills until the sun went down. And no one is allowed to do defensive drills with a hamburger or a cigarette in their mouths.

Not really. Those photos were misleading. But I'd be glad to get pointers on either side of the ball (drills included).

yeah man, that was like our last game in the late afternoon after we were all pretty much winded from playing 3 other games prior... plus, i was switching out on ActionJackson, he wasn't even my man on that play.

Posted by Panos:


Yeah, well, not sure either of us had 4 years, but I've survived on the court with raw skills and pure hustle, so any pointers on my game would by extremely appreciated.

You don't want Bip coaching you. He's from the Larry Brown School of coaching. First he breaks you down. Then, well, he breaks you down some more.