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Benefit of doubt....
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Nalod
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7/23/2007  10:25 AM
When the Duke Lacrosse thing broke out I sat down with my son and spoke to him about "Benefit of doubt". Those boys were having wild parties and were told to knock it off many times. That is one reason the court of public opinion went against them from the start.

Michael Vick and his wonderful brother Marcus have had many problems over the last few years and the higher your star and the face of a franchise, nearly a billion dollar entity bTW, and your paid huge money, the court of approval really has swung against him. Except for Black fans in Atlanta who are still about 75% in favor of letting him play.

I do believe in due process and letting this thing play out but the season is about to start and decisions must be made regarding the team. Vick has paid lip service to his boss, the league and yet the problems mount. If Vick had never had a lick of trouble I think he should be given every benefit of doubt but in a way he has already been given some free passes.

For Marbury, he has 11 years of being very private, hip hop, surley, and self centered and while he is certainly doing nothing wrong, in fact he is a very positive force (off the court), some fans are not buying into his "walking on sunshine" act and prefer remain on the side lines on this one. Certainly the genesis of any "Starbury" begins on the basketball court and while Starbury the civilian might be Peter Pumkinhead, for some the court is where it all counts and he has not been a winner.

Benefit of doubt. When you have a cred that extends beyond the moment it provides a that benefit and your charactor is not questioned. Marburys charactor is questioned even though he is channeling his rescouces to help people. But to do so in such a public light and diss Former MVPs and a current 23 year old who took his team to the finals to some is suspect. Marbury had sneaker deals for many years and other endorsements that catered to the wealthy (the SUV endever).

For Vick, I wish him well but if the charges stick, he don't have much character benefit left.

And that NBA ******* ref should be hung at the allstar game. If for nothing else, he should have been fired for being an Asshole. Does the union allow for such a thing?

[Edited by - nalod on 07-23-2007 12:44 PM]
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kam77
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7/23/2007  11:37 AM
God forbid he be hip-hop. Congrats on outing yourself as an arse.
For Marbury, he has 11 years of being very private, hip hop, surley, and self centered
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
MS
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7/23/2007  11:55 AM
Yes the hip hop community should be applauded for their contributions to society. Are you kidding? I happen to love hip hop and not have a real problem with it, but a good majority of those guys not only make it impossible for youth to see what it takes to succeed in society, but they promote violence, thuggery, exploit women, and are just plain bad people.

You can give your examples of positive role models, but the negatives outweigh the positives

kam77
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7/23/2007  12:00 PM
You're using the term hip-hop as a perjorative. I know how sensitive some can be when you call them out, but that was bordering a very racist comment. I'm sure marbury has more than 11 years of hip-hop in him.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
arkrud
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7/23/2007  12:10 PM
Posted by MS:

Yes the hip hop community should be applauded for their contributions to society. Are you kidding? I happen to love hip hop and not have a real problem with it, but a good majority of those guys not only make it impossible for youth to see what it takes to succeed in society, but they promote violence, thuggery, exploit women, and are just plain bad people.

You can give your examples of positive role models, but the negatives outweigh the positives

Hip hop is a culture and whatever hip hop stars promote is demanded by social groups from where they get paid.
It is not like Hip Hop is shaping the society but all the way around.
A lot of politicians want people to be brain washed to unlimited extend and hip hop helps a lot to do this and create the stereotype for politicians to run with.
They get free pass to run public with promoting violence, sex, drags , crime, etc but Progressive Rock groups are censored out from TV and radio only because they are politically incorrect and are pointing at government and establishment blunders, corruption, and neglect to people they are getting paid from…







"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Nalod
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7/23/2007  12:25 PM
Posted by kam77:

God forbid he be hip-hop. Congrats on outing yourself as an arse.
For Marbury, he has 11 years of being very private, hip hop, surley, and self centered

In retrospect it was a bad choice of words, but I stand by the intent of the rest of it.


kam77
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7/23/2007  12:38 PM
Posted by Nalod:
Posted by kam77:

God forbid he be hip-hop. Congrats on outing yourself as an arse.
For Marbury, he has 11 years of being very private, hip hop, surley, and self centered

In retrospect it was a bad choice of words, but I stand by the intent of the rest of it.



lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
EnySpree
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7/23/2007  12:40 PM
Posted by Nalod:
Posted by kam77:

God forbid he be hip-hop. Congrats on outing yourself as an arse.
For Marbury, he has 11 years of being very private, hip hop, surley, and self centered

In retrospect it was a bad choice of words, but I stand by the intent of the rest of it.


I was thinking the same thing. Hip-hop was the only thing you guys got out of the guys post?

If hip-hop wasn't there what would the opinion be?
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kam77
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7/23/2007  12:49 PM
Posted by EnySpree:
Posted by Nalod:
Posted by kam77:

God forbid he be hip-hop. Congrats on outing yourself as an arse.
For Marbury, he has 11 years of being very private, hip hop, surley, and self centered

In retrospect it was a bad choice of words, but I stand by the intent of the rest of it.


I was thinking the same thing. Hip-hop was the only thing you guys got out of the guys post?

If hip-hop wasn't there what would the opinion be?

The opinion would be that this is another post picking on Marbury's characteristics. Other than being described as 'surly', what was so negative about the description? He has been private (whats wrong with that) hip-hop (please) surly (a negative) and self-centered (common trait among those with a self).

Barry Bonds is surly. Kobe Bryant is self-centered. KRS-One is hip-hop. All of them are private. All of them do pretty well for themselves. So these adjectives are neither instructive nor helpful.

I'd rather see someone say... Marbury is not a pure passer and takes too many jumpshots... because at least there's a basketball angle we can discuss. Talking about someone's personality leads to nothing constructive.

I did like how Nalod began his post, talking about explaining Benefit of the Doubt. I applaud that.

[Edited by - kam77 on 07-23-2007 12:51 PM]
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
Nalod
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7/23/2007  1:02 PM

The objective was to discuss when a player or public figure like Paris Hilton or Starbury does a very public image change and on these forums some are not buying it.

The Vick thing looks like the court of public opinion is divided amung racial lines. I wonder if Marburys and Bonds image also might be different amung the lines that divide.

For me, I can understand hip hop to a certain extent, but not not hip hop posers.

Marbury for years lived in LA to get away from the city and enjoyed hanging out and being in some videos. Now he disses Jordan and Lebron for not being among the people. While one can change ones ways, and if this is a positive thing so much the better, but he seems obsessed with his self image. And he does not want to be accountable for being a winner. He like to point how Barkley, Nash and Dirk are the same as he.

Three letters seporate. MVP.
MS
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7/23/2007  1:11 PM
Exactly you can't go from a player that has been selfish his entire career, based himself around the image of "Starbury" and clashed with teammates, coaches, pretty much anyone that ever questioned him and then all of a sudden forget his past.

He is doing great things, giving time and money, but i think there is a motive behind what he is doing. And leaders do by example, they don't do to sing their own praises annoint themsevles to be a life changing force and then call out everyone that doesn't do it his way. So for essentially a 1 year and half he believes the past is not relevant, and that he was acting like a selfish child for 25% of the season and enjoyed a nice pr resurgence and seems more interested in his outside endevours than honoring his commitment to the knicks. I would like to see him come in with an improvement to his game this season go about his business and not hear a word unless it's brought up about the good he is doing......

He is the best pg in the league? Is he the most important? No so do what you need to do on and off the court and garner respect by keeping quiet
kam77
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7/23/2007  1:16 PM
I don't see Marbury doing anything bad. If this is a conscious image-change, you've got to at least applaud that the guy sees there was something that needed changing. He is trying. It doesn't help when there are people there to cut you down at every turn. We all make fun of the guy. Tell me that somehow, he should be immune to it. I feel for the man. I thought coming here would be a NY redemption story, But its turning into a shakespearean tragedy.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
djsunyc
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7/23/2007  1:25 PM
i feel marbury's career here in nyc has been a waste of time, both for him as a player, and for our team. he's been put in a situation where hasn't succeeded (as a franchise player and team leader). now, the page is turning and he's no longer asked to be that (and we don't know who will take that role). he has 2 more years here then he's done...and we have to find another starting pg. so it looks like the marbury "era" on the knicks will come and go and neither he as a player, nor us as a team have anything worthwhile to show for it.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 07-23-2007 1:25 PM]
EnySpree
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7/23/2007  3:26 PM
Marbury is a flawed individual. Nobody is perfect. Nobody can expect him to be quiet like Stockton, porter, Harper, lever, price, etc. Those guys get more respect than marbs yet none of those guys have given anything or even tried to make their stamp on humanity. Where are they? Who knows?

Marbs wanted to me a star. He thinks he is a star. At least now in his older age he sees a purpose bigger than basketball. Good for him. Him taking lebron? Lebron is a guy that said he wanted to be the richest man on earth. Where is that dudes head at? Marbs should bash him. He should bash Jordan. All these guys have done was play sports and get rich. They don't owe anybody anything. Marbs at least figured out that he does. By challenging these guys he is trying to change the world. If guys weren't so selfish things could change for the better. Money, and celebrity is power.

Not everyone has that in them to even try to help out in anyway. Marbs calling out people is bo different than an evangelist on the train preaching to deaf ears. Thing is, those "saved" people aren't feeding babies and curing sicknesses. Instead of trying to scare people into doing good they nerd to open businesses and physically help the community.

I'm talking about life. If we are talking wins and losses then yeah marbs is a loser. If we talking about career? Yeah marbs is a loser. He says he has 2 years left? Yeah he has been a waste to the knicks. If he wins a title within 2 years all will be washed. If he leaves the NBA without it all the tags he has earned will be his legacy.

As far as life legacy. Marbs has realized there is more to life than basketball. At 32, I hope he can make a greater impact on society as he should. God blessing you with millions is gift. Just sitting on it would be the worst thing you can do.
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Nalod
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7/23/2007  3:44 PM

I hope he continues this quest long after he is done playing.

If he can then he will change is legacy and be remembered for all he has done.

Starbury clothes will only have but a certain shelf life and If he is doing this to promote it then the bashing will be worth it.

Time will tell. Good deeds will last, lets hope he continues.

Benefit of the doubt leads me to believe his sudden turnaround is to gains love from fans and improve his image.
BasketballJones
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7/23/2007  5:26 PM
I hope Marbury continues giving those entertaining interviews.
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Nalod
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7/24/2007  8:00 AM
Posted by BasketballJones:

I hope Marbury continues giving those entertaining interviews.


MIked up was like a MAD TV skit!


fishmike
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7/24/2007  8:09 AM
I think its fair to say Marbury's personality (or lack there of) has contributed to his inability to win games in the NBA. Several prominant teammates of his have said so point blank.
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Bippity10
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7/24/2007  9:23 AM
Posted by fishmike:

I think its fair to say Marbury's personality (or lack there of) has contributed to his inability to win games in the NBA. Several prominant teammates of his have said so point blank.

So knowing that my question isn't why doesn't he change his personality? My question is why is the GM still relying on that personality to lead us?
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Nalod
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7/24/2007  10:36 AM
Benefit of doubt....

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