I would LOVE to know what people thought about this.

The Reality of Race: Is the Problem That White People Don't Know or Don't Care?
By Robert Jensen, AlterNet
Posted on July 14, 2007, Printed on July 14, 2007
http://www.alternet.org/story/56837/

"Study shows that white people are mean and uncaring"

That would have been my headline for a recent story from Diverse: Issues in Higher Education, which was reprinted on AlterNet, and reported an Ohio State University study of white people's understanding of the black experience (AlterNet's headline was "Whites Just Don't Understand the Black Experience"). Curiously, the psychologists who conducted the research spun the data in exactly the opposite direction, and the conflicting interpretations tell us much about race relations in the United States.

The researchers found that whites more accurately assessed the burden of discrimination borne by a hypothetical minority group in a fictional country than they did in the specific case of black people's experience in the contemporary United States. In the hypothetical, whites estimated that the minority group members (described in the same terms as black Americans) deserved $1 million in compensation, but when presented with the question in the context of black Americans, the median estimate was $10,000.

That result was not surprising, but I was taken aback by the conclusion one of the researchers drew:

"Our data suggest that such resistance is not because White Americans are mean and uncaring, morally bankrupt or ethically flawed. White Americans suffer from a glaring ignorance about what it means to live as a Black American."

I think the data -- along with all my experience both as a white person and someone who writes about white supremacy -- suggests exactly the opposite:

White Americans are mean and uncaring, morally bankrupt and ethically flawed, because white supremacy has taken a huge toll on white people's capacity to be fully human.

My reasoning is simple: Given all the data and stories available to us about the reality of racism in the United States, if at this point white people (myself included) underestimate the costs of being black it's either because (1) we have made a choice not to know, or (2) we know but can't face the consequences of that knowledge.

On #1: To choose not to know about the reality of a situation in which one is privileged in an unjust system is itself a moral failure. When a system is structured to benefit people who look like me, and I choose not to listen to the evidence of how others suffer in that system, I have effectively decided not to act by deciding not to know.

On #2: If I do know these things but am not willing to take meaningful action to undermine that unjust system, then my knowledge doesn't much matter. Again, I have failed in moral terms.

In either case, white people have incentives to underestimate the costs of white supremacy, to avoid facing our moral failing. Rather than suggesting whites "suffer from a glaring ignorance about what it means to live as a Black American," it's more accurate to point out that we whites typically choose to turn away from (1) the information readily available to us, or (2) the consequences of the information we do possess.

Much the same argument could be made about men's assessment of the cost of being female in a patriarchal culture; or the way in which affluent people view the working class and poor; or how U.S. citizens see the rest of the world. In each case, there's a hierarchical system that allows some to live in privileged positions while consigning others to subordinate status. The systems are unjust, and hence the advantages for the privileged are unjust. There's no shortage of data and stories available to those of us in the privileged positions if we want to struggle to understand the lived experience of those without those privileges. If we willing avoid learning about that experience, or we know about it but fail to organize politically to change those systems, then we are responsible for the systems' continued existence.

So, is it too harsh to say that we white folks are mean? Uncaring? Morally bankrupt? Ethically flawed? What about men, the affluent, and U.S citizens?

My point is not to preach from on high. I happen to be a member of all four of those privileged groups: white and male, affluent relative to the vast majority of the world, and a U.S. citizen in a world dominated (for now) by a hyper-militarized United States. Because I have a job as a teacher that allows me to spend a lot of time acquiring information, I know a fair amount about the reality of all four of those systems of power: white supremacy, patriarchy, predatory corporate capitalism, and imperialism. As a result of that study and the privileges of my job, I spend a fair amount of time writing, speaking, and organizing as part of movements trying to undermine these systems.

But this doesn't leaving me feeling particularly upbeat. The more I study and organize, the more I realize that the system of white supremacy is woven more deeply into this society -- and, hence in some sense, into me -- than I ever imagined. That leads me to a little thought experiment, a twist on the researchers' study.

Imagine that you could line white people up in front of a door and get them to really believe that if they walked into a "race-changing room" they would emerge on the other side with black skin and an accent associated with blacks from the South. Then ask whites to set their price -- the amount of money it would take them to agree to enter that room. Imagine there was an attendant there with stacks of cash, ready to hand money to the white folks. Just for fun, let's say the cash award would be tax free. In that setting, when white people really had to face the possibility of being black -- knowing all they know about the reality of life in white-supremacist America -- what would the price be?

My guess is that a significant percentage of whites would not become black for any amount of money. I also am fairly confident that the median price set by the whites who might be willing to go into the room would be considerably more than $1 million.

In that moment of choice, which would get at the truth about white people think about being black, the problem wouldn't be that we whites don't know enough. We know plenty. The issue would be whether or not we had transcended the deeply rooted white supremacy of the culture. In that moment, we would find out about the depth of white people's commitment to a color-blind society.

I applaud the researchers for devising a study that tries to get at these difficult realities. But we must not fall prey to the temptation to interpret data the way we wish the world were. In this world, we struggle to transcend 500 years of white supremacy. The more we struggle, the more we learn about just how difficult that is.

Robert Jensen is a journalism professor at the University of Texas at Austin, and the author of, most recently, The Heart of Whiteness: Confronting Race, Racism and White Privilege (City Lights Books).

Oh gosh.

So how you been Killah? Haven't seen you on in a while. Read any good articles lately?

I think the article is ridiculous. So what if white people wouldnt walk into a race changing machine to become black for any amount of money - they probably wouldnt change to asian, indian, or any other choice out there. Ask the same question of a black person - think they would want to change skin color? If you are born a certain way you should be happy you were made that way, proud, and no amount of money should change that.

The real problem is that people from all the different backgrounds in the world feel misunderstood by each other. Until we can all figure out how to see each others perspectives and respect each others values we won't make any progress. Articles like this do nothing to move us forward.

Why are all of these OT race posts doing on a Knicks message board? I will say every last American no matter creed or color has the chance to succeed if they want to--you are not born into a society that you cannot ultimately be what you want to be if you work hard to get it. Everything else is half-arse excuse--bottom line.

For a million? No. For 100 million? Yeah, why not.

I hate Whitey.

The great thing about America is not only can people say whatever they like but they can also leave whenever they like. That is not the case in many oppressive countries. If this professor or anyone else feels oppression here they should just move to a country they feel will treat them better. Ive faced my fair share of bigotry over the years but I would not take a penny from anyone. I'm not a charity case.

The thing about the money was just a device to demonstrate an incongruity between how whites perceive some general, imaginary minority vs. how they perceive blacks. The point of the thing is that the two attitudes don't match, not that we should pay black people money.

As for the article itself, it's hard to judge without reading the actual study. Mostly I wonder if they did an adequate job controlling for confounds. For instance maybe there is something about using a real life context as opposed to an imaginary context that leads people to be more conservative about these kinds of monetary compensation judgments, regardless of the specific real life context used. Did they try doing the same sort of thing but using other actual minorities besides blacks? If not then that's a pretty glaring hole. If they did then do they find the disparity is specific to the case where they use blacks? That is crucial information for determining what's really causing the observed effects.

[Edited by - tomverve on 07-20-2007 01:28 AM]

That's the thing about studies like this. They're all based on hypotheticals and theory that often have little application in the real world.

Moreover, they ignore the reality of the human condition which is to preserve and replicate onesself by any means necessary (often at the expense of those outside of that group).
If that means to take what you want and damn the consequences..then so be it (Dog eat Dog world, etc). I can certainly assure you that this was the prevailing thought when this continent was
taken from its native people by the "settler's" of that day.

I have both family members and associates who would by any definition be considered "Intellectuals". These individuals can "theorize" until they are blue in the face.
However, their positions and theories are rarely if ever initiated in a real world setting....because quite frankly they don't have the skills to deliver it in a palpable form to those (white, black and green) who need it.

Did Imus make a racist statement...Absolutely. Is Imus a racist or harbor racist attitudes....the evidence shows that it's highly likely that he is. But here's the part....the reality based part that no one
on either side wants to deal with. There's not a soul present that didn't know that there were going to be marches and protests in the streets fervently calling for his head (once the Pols started talking).

That's fine in and of itself (cause he is an idiot) but quite hypocritical when you go deeper. In NYC alone we have 1.1 Million school children in our public school system with the large large majority being children
of color. Each year over half fail out. Why no fervent protest down 5th Avenue over this issue....a much more relevant issue? Is the Imus circus more pressing to NY citizens than the condition and performance of a
Billion dollar system that annually fails children of color. Why no protest over that? I can assure you it's not because my fellow and related intellectuals are knee deep in it trying to address the problem.

It is the Human Condition.

Imo, to understand and address the issue one need only go as far as viewing the first 10 minutes of Scorsese's recent movie "The Departed" (not one of his best I might add). Jack Nicholson's character talks to a group of kids (and i'm paraphrasing here) about how the blacks are always talking about how they have been wronged and they deserve this and they're owed that, etc. He states that the only solution is that you have to take what you want. You can't ask for it, you have to take it....and that's the human condition.....theory out the window. Or was that a Soprano character that made that statement?

So, in summary the immediate reality of race is that honestly white folk and black folk don't really truly know or care (or don't want to be bothered).

The reality is that humans will be humans.....and that Isles (by his response) hates Isiah and is most definitely White and most likely balding



[Edited by - junkmein on 07-20-2007 05:55 AM]

I did not get the whole article either.

My grandparents came from Russia as children after hundreds of years of getting their (generations) asses kicked by the majority. Czars were not nice people even if they they were wronged by the Reds.

They came, has had many after Slavery was abolished. Many immigrants thet came over after the 1860's had to assimilate into the country and later helped forge it. They were often poor and stuck in ghetto's.

Im not comparing one to the other but many minority groups were quite preoccupied with there own struggles and injustices.

I would say the difference is many immigrated to the north which was industrialized vs. the south which was agricutlture based.

As not being land owners in that kind of economy it would be tough for anyone to advance.

I don't know the answer nor wish to pretend to even have an idea about the black experience. I do know that higher society tends to look down on those with less and when a group of people are ecnomically challanged they would appear inferior.

Maybe Its my opinion that predudice roots are ecnomically based and when one is dependend on the other its not always pretty. Either the black experience in America, or any experience in the world. If you don't have hand, your at a disadvantage.