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Not to much shots left
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arkrud
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7/18/2007  10:22 PM
Z-bo 18,9 sht/game
EC - 12.5 sht/game
Q - 11 sht/game
Craf - 15 sht/game
Steph - 12.9 sht/game
------------------
It's 70 shots per game
Knicks had 80 per last year...
So it is only 10 left for Lee, Balk, Nate, Mardy, 2 rooks, Malik and others

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
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nixluva
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7/19/2007  12:27 AM
Posted by arkrud:

Z-bo 18,9 sht/game
EC - 12.5 sht/game
Q - 11 sht/game
Craf - 15 sht/game
Steph - 12.9 sht/game
------------------
It's 70 shots per game
Knicks had 80 per last year...
So it is only 10 left for Lee, Balk, Nate, Mardy, 2 rooks, Malik and others

You do realize that aside from Nate, most of the other guys on the team aren't big offensive players, so it all works out. I really don't know why you and so many others want to keep trying to look for ways this won't work. You are supposed to be a fan of the team and if anything you'd think that you be at least 50/50 in terms of posts that reflected some optimism for the coming season. You'd think that you'd look at the talent we have and the additions to the team and say "hey, we're really set at a number of positions for the future". What, do you not like the draft picks we've made over the last 3 years? I would think that there is something positive to talk about.

I don't understand you or any of the other guys in NY that think like you. How can you go out of your way to think bad things about your own team? To do that you must not really like the Knicks, but then you're here on a Knicks forum. Like I said it just doesn't add up.

[Edited by - nixluva on 07-19-2007 12:45 AM]
kam77
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7/19/2007  12:39 AM
I think Marbs, Craw, and Zach will all take a combined 10 less shots this year.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
technomaster
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7/19/2007  1:11 AM
I think Marbury will have a bit of a return to form this year. He'll hopefully understand that a pro athlete making 20 million a year should be wearing custom orthotics inside his kicks. :)

I think he'll shoot more this season (13.5+ FGa) and make a higher percentage (along the lines of 45%)... and get to the line a little more (6fta). That should get him to the 18ppg range. Crawford's scoring numbers might drop a little bit as a result of a Marbury resurgence, but his assist totals could increase with the added target of Zach Randolph.

It's amazing that Eddy Curry *only* averaged 12.5 FGa's in scoring nearly 20ppg. That's pretty efficient, considering he's a below average free throw shooter. I think for the Knicks to be successful, Eddy should probably increase his FG attempts by at least 2. He *needs* to be the dominant big man on our team. Zach is a capable scorer, but Eddy Curry's superior size and the mismatches he causes should make him our #1 threat. With 2 more attempts a game, he should average 22+ppg.

The rest of the Knicks really just need to be defensive specialists or 3pt marksmen. One of the reason why the Spurs are so good is that they've surrounded Duncan with shooters. It makes it easy for Duncan to rack up assists when *any* of the players he passes to can hit a 3. It'll be curious to see if Nichols' outside touch takes minutes away from any of his veteran teammates. Heck, Chandler seems to have a nice stroke from outside too.
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arkrud
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7/19/2007  8:19 AM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by arkrud:

Z-bo 18,9 sht/game
EC - 12.5 sht/game
Q - 11 sht/game
Craf - 15 sht/game
Steph - 12.9 sht/game
------------------
It's 70 shots per game
Knicks had 80 per last year...
So it is only 10 left for Lee, Balk, Nate, Mardy, 2 rooks, Malik and others

You do realize that aside from Nate, most of the other guys on the team aren't big offensive players, so it all works out. I really don't know why you and so many others want to keep trying to look for ways this won't work. You are supposed to be a fan of the team and if anything you'd think that you be at least 50/50 in terms of posts that reflected some optimism for the coming season. You'd think that you'd look at the talent we have and the additions to the team and say "hey, we're really set at a number of positions for the future". What, do you not like the draft picks we've made over the last 3 years? I would think that there is something positive to talk about.

I don't understand you or any of the other guys in NY that think like you. How can you go out of your way to think bad things about your own team? To do that you must not really like the Knicks, but then you're here on a Knicks forum. Like I said it just doesn't add up.

[Edited by - nixluva on 07-19-2007 12:45 AM]

Why you spin this like negative?
I just stated that if this 5 will be involved in offense "as usual" they will consume all offense
Obviously it will not be this way and this 5 will not be as involved as last year.
Zack will get the bigger hit and good if he will get 12 shots. So probably his points will also go south to top 11-13 and rebounds to 5-6.
Same should be the case for Steph, Craf and Q. Their shots and points will decrease a bit.
It's not bad or good. It's life.
All in all the perception about players based on previous stats cannot be taken for granted when team is changing so rapidly year-to-year as Knicks
The only concern I see – a lot of guys will never justify the money they are getting.
But this is well known fact which no one is arguing









"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
franco12
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7/19/2007  8:35 AM
Posted by technomaster:



It's amazing that Eddy Curry *only* averaged 12.5 FGa's in scoring nearly 20ppg. That's pretty efficient, considering he's a below average free throw shooter. I think for the Knicks to be successful, Eddy should probably increase his FG attempts by at least 2. He *needs* to be the dominant big man on our team. Zach is a capable scorer, but Eddy Curry's superior size and the mismatches he causes should make him our #1 threat. With 2 more attempts a game, he should average 22+ppg.

this highlights the fact that when a player is fouled and is taking ft's, it doesn't get counted as a shot attempt in this state.

Maybe one of the stat guys on the board could illustrate this- and we had a thread about this earlier- but, there are only so many possessions per game- and eddy & zach consume a lot.

I don't understand how adding a player like zach to the mix isn't going to affect everyone- he demands the ball because he is efficient scorer, but he's joining curry who likewise demands the ball.

And then we've got sir chuck a lot- crawford-

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

I hope Isiah can make it work- he must believe he can or he wouldn't have made the trade. or so I hope.
MS
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7/19/2007  9:20 AM
We don't need a 40% shooter taking 15 shots, reduce him by 3, and reduce zack by 3
arkrud
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7/19/2007  9:33 AM
For team assembled with offensive players you need to create more positions.
Look at Suns. If team have close to 100 shots per, this can work pretty well.
But this is not an option with supper slow team like NY now. Eddy, Zack, Steph, Q, JJ, Lee, Mardy - it's all half court game.
They cannot run and cannot make fast decisions.
Pretty dysfunctional group for running game.
Pretty strange group for half-court game too.
We have a genius in IT to figure it out. Will see if he is capable to invents some new brand of bbal
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
EnySpree
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7/19/2007  9:51 AM
I'm not worried about shots. Marbs and craw are not selfish players. They basically take shots when no one else can. They have a guy that's a 3 times better than channing. That alone will change the game. Isiah has tried to get channing involved cuz of how well his game should have meshed with curry. Zach is no puss, so I expect zach to dominate in channings role. I expect marbs and craw to rack up in assists. Especially with Q around as well.

The shots will be there. Individual shots aren't important. The knicks should be a lot more efficient. That was the major problem with the knicks last year. They could score but a lot of times the couldn't and always played catch up. The knicks should have that problem eliminated now.

How quickly these guys adapt to zack and become closer as a unit will determine the outcome of the season.

It starts in training camp and pre-season. Hopefully zach just plugs in and plays the way channing should have and the knicks instill their will for once in a decade.
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Ira
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7/19/2007  10:12 AM
Frye took about 10 shots a game. If Q, Craw and Marbs down to 10 shots a game each, that adds up to 18.9 for Zach. I'd like to see Zach and Eddy total more than 30 shots a game.
Masterplan
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7/19/2007  10:45 AM
Posted by nixluva:


You do realize that aside from Nate, most of the other guys on the team aren't big offensive players, so it all works out.

but these numbers are "shots," not "plays run for a given player." anything from a putback (balk and lee) to an open J off of a post up or drive and dish... any rotation player should average a number of "shots."

i'm not sure what reasonable numbers would be for FGAs for our offensive go-to-guys (i'll check some numbers maybe after work), but 10 split between 3-5 subs per game is definitely NOT reasonable.
arkrud
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7/19/2007  11:10 AM
To make some comparison:
Spurs is classic half-court team:
Tim - 14
Oberto - 3.6
Bowen - 5.7
Manu - 11
Parker - 14
------------
48.3 shots per game with 75 average shots per game
About 30 (35-40%) shots for non-starters look much more balanced

I know I am comparing the "Gift of Gods with scrambled eggs" but the disparity is huge...







"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
nixluva
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7/19/2007  11:19 AM
Posted by Masterplan:
Posted by nixluva:


You do realize that aside from Nate, most of the other guys on the team aren't big offensive players, so it all works out.

but these numbers are "shots," not "plays run for a given player." anything from a putback (balk and lee) to an open J off of a post up or drive and dish... any rotation player should average a number of "shots."

i'm not sure what reasonable numbers would be for FGAs for our offensive go-to-guys (i'll check some numbers maybe after work), but 10 split between 3-5 subs per game is definitely NOT reasonable.

We actually RUN more lays for Curry than he actually turns into shots. In truth since we draw so many fouls, it's naturally gonna cut into the number of actual shots taken quite a bit. You can't simply go by what happened last year, cuz we rely on a lot of young players who aren't confident enough to just take shots whenever they want to. So they defer to the vets. This will happen a little less so as we move along. You'll begin to see a bit more balance in time.

Last year when the guys were lost to injury, it was Steph, Francis and Curry who began to take more shots. The stats are skewed due to that. This is why i'm not worried about this at all. We will most likely end up being one of the most efficient teams in the league this year. We run a very efficient offense with guys who are very efficient players. The TO's should go down, with defenses being spread much thinner now. They won't be able to focus on any one aspect of our team.
BigC
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7/19/2007  11:26 AM
I think there are enough shots to go around. If the Mavs and Suns can find shots for their players so can the Knicks.

Zach will get the majority of the shots. Curry only takes 12 shots a game that is not alot. The person who shots will be reduced will be Jamal. I expect his role this year to be the facilitator at setting up the offense. Marbury will most likely be the third scorer. If Jeffries starts we will not have to worry about him shooting.

None of these players really have been known to demand the ball except Marbury . We are not exactly talking about a team filled with ball hogs and big egos. The only person that in the past have been know for having a big ego is Marbury.

[Edited by - BigC on 07-19-2007 11:28 AM]
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arkrud
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7/19/2007  11:36 AM
Posted by BigC:

I think there are enough shots to go around. If the Mavs and Suns can find shots for their players so can the Knicks.

Zach will get the majority of the shots. Curry only takes 12 shots a game that is not alot. The person who shots will be reduced will be Jamal. I expect his role this year to be the facilitator at setting up the offense. Marbury will most likely be the third scorer. If Jeffries starts we will not have to worry about him shooting.

None of these players really have been known to demand the ball except Marbury . We are not exactly talking about a team filled with ball hogs and big egos. The only person that in the past have been know for having a big ego is Marbury.

[Edited by - BigC on 07-19-2007 11:28 AM]

Eddy needs shots to not dissapear at all and Zach is demanding shots much more that Steph
Craf with his pure defense and decision making will be useless without taking more that 10.
He will have no impact on the game at all and can as well sit on the bench.
To balance this team you need players like Lee, balk, and Mardy all the time on the flour.
Othervise it's a trouble.






[Edited by - arkrud on 07-19-2007 11:37 AM]
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
nixluva
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7/19/2007  11:37 AM
Posted by BigC:

I think there are enough shots to go around. If the Mavs and Suns can find shots for their players so can the Knicks.

Zach will get the majority of the shots. Curry only takes 12 shots a game that is not alot. The person who shots will be reduced will be Jamal. I expect his role this year to be the facilitator at setting up the offense. Marbury will most likely be the third scorer. If Jeffries starts we will not have to worry about him shooting.

None of these players really have been known to demand the ball except Marbury . We are not exactly talking about a team filled with ball hogs and big egos. The only person that in the past have been know for having a big ego is Marbury.

[Edited by - BigC on 07-19-2007 11:28 AM]

I agree and Steph has toned it down a lot in recent times. I really don't expect there to be a problem. I think many of our vets have reached the point where they just want to win. They don't really care about the stats anymore. Imagine you were one of these guys and you haven't won anything in years? You would likely get real serious and want to make sure that everyone is thinking TEAM and WINNING! That's the impression I get from Q and I view him as one of the leaders on this team.
misterearl
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7/19/2007  11:42 AM
Not to much shots left

sheesh arkrud.

I understand this is not an educational forum but damn, how about employing the usage of elementary school-level English?

with that said, enyspree has it right

shot attempts will vary from game to game. Some nights Eddy will be the man. On others it may be Zach or even the despised Stephon Marbury. It doesn't really matter who shoots the pill so long as they are GOOD shots in the flow of an unselfish offensive mindset.

The Knicks have upgraded the frontcourt and the problemmatic skill forward position with Nichols (whose shooting percentage only increased every year at 'Cuse) and Chandler (who looked smooth from outside in LasVegas).

Fuggedabout who is taking how many shots. Just win baby.

Hit the open man





[Edited by - misterearl on 07-19-2007 11:43 AM]
once a knick always a knick
Masterplan
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7/19/2007  11:46 AM
Posted by BigC:

I think there are enough shots to go around. If the Mavs and Suns can find shots for their players so can the Knicks.

mavs and suns play uptempo. scouts are already calling us one of the slowest teams in the league with our starting frontcourt.
Zach will get the majority of the shots. Curry only takes 12 shots a game that is not alot. The person who shots will be reduced will be Jamal. I expect his role this year to be the facilitator at setting up the offense. Marbury will most likely be the third scorer. If Jeffries starts we will not have to worry about him shooting.

i don't think it's really the precise number of shots that is important. it's about how we run the offense. steph wants his assists. he won't get them by throwing entry passes to our bigs, who then make their post moves. eddy's scoring numbers will go down when at least 1/3 of his touches go to zach, and that's his sole impact on the game for us. everyone says zach will top his 23-10 now that he's in the east. he cannot while steph and eddy get theirs. and that's before jamal, Q and everyone else gets involved.
None of these players really have been known to demand the ball except Marbury . We are not exactly talking about a team filled with ball hogs and big egos. The only person that in the past have been know for having a big ego is Marbury.

are you still talking about the knicks?
Masterplan
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7/19/2007  11:48 AM
i really wish we'd gone a different direction than ZR. but i'm trying to limit myself to as few of those disappointed posts as i can so bear with me
misterearl
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7/19/2007  11:51 AM
>>scouts are already calling us one of the slowest teams in the league with our starting frontcourt.

masterplan - what scouts have scouted a team that has yet to practice a single session together or play a sinlge preseason game?

Zach is not slow. Lee is not slow. Randolph Morris showed some nifty diversity to his moves in Vegas. Eddy Curry is no ballerina, but he is by no means slow.

what team are you watching?

once a knick always a knick
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