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Front-Court defense isn't good - Target: Josh Smith
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nyk4ever
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7/16/2007  11:41 AM
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/hawks/stories/2007/07/15/0716smith.html

Treading water in Smith talks
Agent complains Hawks not pushing to extend young star

By SEKOU SMITH
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Published on: 07/16/07

Salt Lake City — The NBA's free-agent signing period is almost a week old and the Hawks are not close to signing Josh Smith to a long-term contract extension, one of his agents confirmed Sunday.

The Hawks have until Oct. 31 to agree to terms with Smith, and fellow fourth-year swingman Josh Childress, or table the discussion until next summer, when both players would become restricted free agents.Smith, an Atlanta native and the team's second-leading scorer, made clear his desire to stay with the franchise through whatever tumult remains in the ongoing ownership dispute. But it's unclear as to whether the Hawks have reciprocated that feeling.

"With the uncertainty surrounding the organization you would think that they would want to sign a player who has made it clear to them that he wants to be here [in Atlanta] and shown that he wants to improve as a player," said Wallace Prather, one of Smith's agents. "And it's very disappointing that they're not making it a priority."

With Smith entering the fourth-year option of his rookie contract, which will pay him $1.6 million, the Hawks still have several months to get a deal done.

If they can't, they would have to start the process all over again next summer. And if Smith continues to progress the way he has over his first three NBA seasons — his workouts this summer include one-on-one sessions with Hakeem Olajuwon and Hall of Famer Calvin Murphy — the cost of re-signing him could rise considerably.

Hawks general manager Billy Knight said the organization is committed to both players and is having ongoing conversations with representatives for both Smith and Childress.

But he also said that he wasn't anticipating "anything" and would "wait and see how things go" during the negotiation process rather than comment on the details.

"It's the normal situation," Knight said, "players wanting more than the team is willing to pay. So we'll see how things go [over the summer]. But we certainly like both players and we'd like to keep both players."

It'll cost the Hawks.

Smith could command upward of five years and $50 million in a new deal.

With All-Star guard Joe Johnson injured for the final six weeks last season, Smith took over the role of go-to-guy and excelled.

He was one of just two players in the league last year — Phoenix All-Star Shawn Marion was the other — to average better than 16 points (16.4) while also ranking among the top 20 in rebounds (8.6), blocks (2.9) and steals (1.4).

Smith also averaged 3.3 assists and finished second to Marcus Camby for the league lead in blocks. He notched his 500th career block on March 3 against New York, becoming the youngest player in NBA history (21 years, 88 days) to reach that milestone.

He was suspended for two games by the team after a late-season run-in with coach Mike Woodson in Philadelphia.

But even after that Smith reiterated his desire to help lift his hometown team into the playoffs.

"My motivation is to help put my city and the Atlanta Hawks on the map. That's it," the former McEachern High star said. "I'm from Atlanta and I love my city, my family and the people here. And we're at a great point in time, if not this year then next year, when we're going to be a factor. It's going to be our time."



This is the kind of player we need to be playing at SF with Eddy and Zach since neither of them provide defense and Smith is a great very good shotblocker and defensive player. Cost? We'd have to give up Lee I'm sure and maybe probably Crawford as well, but I'd certainly be willing to give up that package for J-Smooth since he brings so many things to the table that we are lacking and he's only getting better.

Am in the minority with this, what do you guys think?
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Silverfuel
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7/16/2007  11:44 AM
I'm with you man. If you are going to trade Lee, trade him for someone like Josh Smith. He has motivation issues but overall, a great player. A frontline of Eddy, Zach and Josh Smith is scary.
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tomverve
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7/16/2007  11:45 AM
Is the cost of acquiring Smith worth the upgrade in defense at SF relative to Balkman? Balk is already a defensive stud there. Blocks shots, steals, and the team is a lot better on D when he's on the floor. Not sure why we would want to pay out the nose for these Josh Smith/Gerald Wallace/AK47/Artest types when Balk is already doing the same things but on a rookie contract. The best solution is to give Balkman more PT and hold on to whatever hefty assets would be needed to get one of those other SFs.
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nyk4ever
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7/16/2007  11:49 AM
Posted by tomverve:

Is the cost of acquiring Smith worth the upgrade in defense at SF relative to Balkman? Balk is already a defensive stud there. Blocks shots, steals, and the team is a lot better on D when he's on the floor. Not sure why we would want to pay out the nose for these Josh Smith/Gerald Wallace/AK47/Artest types when Balk is already doing the same things but on a rookie contract. The best solution is to give Balkman more PT and hold on to whatever hefty assets would be needed to get one of those other SFs.

I disagree Tom. Balk played well last year, but he's not doing the same things as Josh Smith. Smith averaged nearly 3 blocks, 1.5 steals along with 17 points a game. To say that Balkman does the same things as Josh Smith isn't true. While I agree that Balk played well last year, I don't think he has anywhere near the same upside that Josh Smith has has and started to show.
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tomverve
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7/16/2007  11:54 AM 

            blk/40   stl/40   defensive +/-
Smith       3.1      1.5      +1.2
Balkman     1.7      2.1      -9.2


Smith blocks more shots per 40 minutes but Balkman gets more steals. Balkman's defensive +/- blows Smith's out of the water. Knicks were 9.2 points per 100 possessions better on D with Balkman last year. Hawks were 1.2 points per 100 possessions *worse* on D with Smith. Since so many things go into +/- like who your sub is and who you play against it's hard to take too much out of them. But that difference in +/- between the two is so big that it makes you think Balkman is having some kind of effect that Smith is not.
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tomverve
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7/16/2007  11:59 AM
And even if you still think Smith is better than Balkman on D, it's clear that the gap isn't huge. Is it worth it to give up one of our best in Lee to get Smith for his defensive presence, when we already have a SF defender whose D is at least close to Smith's, if not the same or better? I think it's clear the answer is no. One piece we definitely do not need is an elite defender at SF because we already have one.
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nyk4ever
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7/16/2007  11:59 AM
I mean its hard to argue against numbers but I just don't see it. But as you said, its hard to decipher since it's who you play against. Smith was playing against starters while Balkman was usually playing against the other teams bench. I'm really not trying to take anything away from Balk because I love the way he plays and I think he has a future with the Knicks. I'm just not so sure its as a starter and I think Josh Smith has bonafide stud written all over him.
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franco12
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7/16/2007  12:03 PM
The question of Josh Smith Vs. Balkman is really do you want to take Balkman and get offense out of his position.

Balkman is pure energy and terrific on defense. His offense is limited to scrap hustle type plays.

Josh Smith might not help as much on the D, but his offense is stronger.

you can only put five players on the court at any one time- we have 17 guys on our roster- all 17 are good to decent- the problem is we need to put five that are better than the opponents five and can play together as a squad.

At some point, we need to move 2-3 good players, for one great player.

I'm not saying Josh Smith is the player- but with the way the Hawks are being managed, it could be an opportunity.
VDesai
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7/16/2007  12:10 PM
Tom posted the good numbers to back me up, but I was gonna say even though Josh can create turnvoers (blocked shots and steals) I don't think he's a better overall defender than Balk, especially one on one. Actually I think people will be surprised how many blocks Balk can get if he played full time.
bigbeast
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7/16/2007  12:11 PM
Posted by franco12:

The question of Josh Smith Vs. Balkman is really do you want to take Balkman and get offense out of his position.

Balkman is pure energy and terrific on defense. His offense is limited to scrap hustle type plays.

Josh Smith might not help as much on the D, but his offense is stronger.

you can only put five players on the court at any one time- we have 17 guys on our roster- all 17 are good to decent- the problem is we need to put five that are better than the opponents five and can play together as a squad.

At some point, we need to move 2-3 good players, for one great player.

I'm not saying Josh Smith is the player- but with the way the Hawks are being managed, it could be an opportunity.


Not only is Josh better on D, but he is much better on the offensive end than Balk. Smith really improved his offensive game last year and is a much more confident shooter.
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tomverve
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7/16/2007  12:13 PM
Smith is more of a volume guy on offense. He puts up pretty good points per 40 but he does it at low efficiency. Is that something this team needs? If we need any added scoring presence it is in the form of highly efficient, low usage guys (like David Lee actually, another reason we can't afford to trade him). We already have guys who use a lot of possessions on offense. Smith is not going to space the floor for Curry and Randolph because he's an awful 3 point shooter. In the end I don't see a big upside there either.

Balk on offense is limited but not completely chopped liver. He's an active body who will cut and fight for offensive boards. He's also uniquely talented at ballhandling / passing / leading the break for the type of player he is. So limited yes, but not a complete liability.

Not to say that we couldn't do better than Balkman. There are better players out there. But are they so much better that they're worth the cost in contract dollars, years, and assets (like Lee or whatever)? Don't think so.

Don't sleep on Balkman. He didn't get a ton of minutes as a rookie but he was highly effective. His rookie season was actually very similar to David Lee's. With a couple more seasons it is not out of the question that he could improve to the degree Lee already has. Balkman is a player.
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Pharzeone
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7/16/2007  1:14 PM
Posted by tomverve:

Smith is more of a volume guy on offense. He puts up pretty good points per 40 but he does it at low efficiency. Is that something this team needs? If we need any added scoring presence it is in the form of highly efficient, low usage guys (like David Lee actually, another reason we can't afford to trade him). We already have guys who use a lot of possessions on offense. Smith is not going to space the floor for Curry and Randolph because he's an awful 3 point shooter. In the end I don't see a big upside there either.

Balk on offense is limited but not completely chopped liver. He's an active body who will cut and fight for offensive boards. He's also uniquely talented at ballhandling / passing / leading the break for the type of player he is. So limited yes, but not a complete liability.

Not to say that we couldn't do better than Balkman. There are better players out there. But are they so much better that they're worth the cost in contract dollars, years, and assets (like Lee or whatever)? Don't think so.

Don't sleep on Balkman. He didn't get a ton of minutes as a rookie but he was highly effective. His rookie season was actually very similar to David Lee's. With a couple more seasons it is not out of the question that he could improve to the degree Lee already has. Balkman is a player.

You are 100% on target with Josh Smith. As a Hawk season ticket holder. I have witness Josh Smith's offense. The guy is an awful three point shooter. He just throws the ball up there. No play is set for him. If you guys think Crawford has a low BB IQ then you should just about love Josh Smith. He still commits the most ridiculous fouls I seen. I am not a huge Smith fan. I never looked at his stats before. Just to make sure I wasn't over criticizing him because of my bias I checked them out.


SEASON AVERAGES

Season Team G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
06-07 ATL 72 72 36.8 0.439 0.250 0.693 2.3 6.3 8.6 3.3 1.4 2.9 3.15 3.30 16.4

.25% from the 3 point line. 44% FG overall last year. And you think he is a stud. If Isiah would allow Balkman to take as many shots, I guarantee that he would put up similar numbers.

[Edited by - pharzeone on 16-07-2007 1:16 PM]
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MS
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7/16/2007  1:26 PM
he is one of the better stat producing all around players in the league and i would love to happen, but i have heard similiar things, braindead players usually don't win in this league and i think we have the smartest, energy filled bench in the nba with balkman, lee and collins bringing defense at a variety of positions
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7/16/2007  1:51 PM
i'd trade D Lee, Balkman & the expirings for Josh Smith right now if i could... the guy's a shotblocking stud & exactly what this team needs... he's more athletic than either D Lee or Balkman & has the size & length to guard 3 positions... Lee & Balk are my favorite Knicks, but to get that kid i would make the deal.

C - Curry / Morris / Turd
PF - Zach / Malik / Jefferies
SF - Josh / Chandler / Nichols
SG - Q Rich / Jamal
PG - Marbury / Mardy / Nate
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7/16/2007  2:01 PM
can we see Balkman play more than 10 minutes of garbage time a night before he's a stud anything?

You have to earn you floor time.. Balkman might be a very good player, but he has yet to prove that. Josh Smith is already a very good player, and he's on the verge of stardom.

Last year I said we should package Nate, Frye and the Chi pick for Josh Smith and I got laughed at. Hows that looking now?

Know what else? Balkman is 2 years OLDER than Josh Smith.
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COSSUCKS
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7/16/2007  2:08 PM
Balk is so much smaller than Smith
Right now Balk looks like he is pushing 200 pounds.
I think Josh Smith probably has around 30-40 pounds on Balk.
TMS
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7/16/2007  2:15 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Last year I said we should package Nate, Frye and the Chi pick for Josh Smith and I got laughed at. Hows that looking now?

i know for sure a few of us would have made that trade in a heartbeat... people probably had doubts that a package of Nate, Frye & the #23 probably would be enough to get him at that time considering how far Frye's value had dropped & the unknown quantity of a late 1st round pick (though Wilson Chandler seems to be a nice value pick for us right now)

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nyk4ever
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7/16/2007  2:25 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by fishmike:

Last year I said we should package Nate, Frye and the Chi pick for Josh Smith and I got laughed at. Hows that looking now?

i know for sure a few of us would have made that trade in a heartbeat... people probably had doubts that a package of Nate, Frye & the #23 probably would be enough to get him at that time considering how far Frye's value had dropped & the unknown quantity of a late 1st round pick (though Wilson Chandler seems to be a nice value pick for us right now)


Yep, I agree 100% I was one of those people that agreed with Fish, I've been on Josh Smith for quite some time. Who cares if the guy can't hit 3's. We don't have a SF whose a good 3point shooter right now anyway. I prefer my SFs to slash and play defense which is exactly what Josh does. If we are ever going to upgrade our shooting, it should come through the SG position, not the SF position. To say you wouldn't make this trade because Josh Smith is a 3point shooter is out of this world.
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MS
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7/16/2007  2:25 PM
How ghetto do you want to make this team? Because if you bring this kid on with Randolf it's bound to get ugly, zach by all acounts is a piece of ****, you don't rape women because you were young. I have heard that smith has a similiar entourage to randolfs.

Eddy dumb player, jamal dumb player, marbury dumb player, nate dumb player, smith dumb player, this is not generalizing. You need a few heads out there from time to time.

I love smith and would have moved jamal and frye for him along with nate but I have a hard time moving lee and balkman. Love his shotblocking abilities but smith is a run and gun player we have the slowest frontcourt going right now and a pgs that aren't in control enough to play uptemp ball.
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7/16/2007  2:28 PM
Posted by MS:

How ghetto do you want to make this team? Because if you bring this kid on with Randolf it's bound to get ugly, zach by all acounts is a piece of ****, you don't rape women because you were young. I have heard that smith has a similiar entourage to randolfs.

Eddy dumb player, jamal dumb player, marbury dumb player, nate dumb player, smith dumb player, this is not generalizing. You need a few heads out there from time to time.

I love smith and would have moved jamal and frye for him along with nate but I have a hard time moving lee and balkman. Love his shotblocking abilities but smith is a run and gun player we have the slowest frontcourt going right now and a pgs that aren't in control enough to play uptemp ball.

Just because our frontcourt are good post up guys doesnt make them slow.
Curry can beat the majority of Centers down court in a foot race.
Zach has shown legit quickness at times playing the 4 as well.
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