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After thinking about the trade for a few days--there is no doubt in my mind
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BRIGGS
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7/6/2007  9:15 AM
that we got the serious best end of it and that is the bottom line. In almost any other scenario I would be thrilled to get Zach Randolph for that package except the scenario we are in. I wanted the Knicks to concentrate on getting Eddy 16-17 shots a game--take a true 2 guard who can really shoot the ball out of the draft for depth[which killed us last year] and see what we can get for Frye in terms of helping the defensive frontcourt OR just let Frye try to improve from within.

That being said--EVEN if this doesnt work--I do believe that Zach has tremendous trade value and I do believe other teams probably tried to get in on it. The only value Steve had was an ending contract next year and a likely problem this year. If things work out with Zach--great if not I think we have much better goods to help improve the team.
RIP Crushalot😞
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RemBee76
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7/6/2007  9:38 AM
If things work out with Zach--great if not I think we have much better goods to help improve the team.

Its a fair point, but when do we stop collecting assets and start building a team? In no way that I can think of does adding Randolph fit with the team concept we were building last season.

...And I think Curry becomes the asset we look to sell if things with Randolph don't work out. He may not be as well-rounded as Randolph overall (pun not intended) but he is a more dominant post scorer, slightly younger and a lot cheaper.
Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
franco12
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7/6/2007  9:50 AM
I thought the same thing after the Francis trade- other teams tried to get him (denver, supposedly) and I thought we could rehabilitate his trade value.

Granted, Francis had other baggage & was older.

And, I tend to hope the same thing- that if Zach doesn't work out, mid season he can be moved to a team like a dallas or phoenix.
djsunyc
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7/6/2007  10:02 AM
as rem pointed out, when do we start building a team? i feel we are still in asset collect mode.

does isiah truly believe zach is the right piece with eddy? if he does, then all the power to him but it still seems like he's recycling players, upping talent level, so he can finally get THE player.

we still don't have a long term solution at pg, sg, sf. if you want to take the ez pass frontcourt as the future 4/5, fine but the jury is way out on that one. we do have some nice role players off the bench.

in terms of eddy's value - it's really tough to figure out b/c of his contract and health. is his contract insured for his heart? that was the reason the bulls had to trade him b/c they couldn't get insurance. and he's cheaper for the next 2 seasons but after the 08/09 season (when steph expires), he will be exercising his player option and opt out to get a max deal (which the knicks would give him). so if someone is trading for him, it's a risk it can purely be a 2 year rental.

on a side note, rem, i know where all you guys are over at elba. i take a gander from time to time. but when some accuse other posters in other forums as being trolls, d cks, etc, you are basically stooping down to the level of the same people you are criticizing in the way they talk about the knicks. i don't think there's a higher plane of discussion when it comes to basketball. it's alot of nuts and bolts. some just have extreme opinions. and with those opinions, some personalities are open for discussion, some personalities are stubborn, some are argumentative and some are just dumb. but looking for an ideal shangri-la of mixed opinions with the highest level of discussion, well you're not gonna find any place like that...unless you start your own private society and can weed out the membership...maybe elba's that place. besides, i bring the quality down anyway, with my 4th grade comprehension level. those "i" before "e" things are TUFF.

so put that in your "cache" and smoke it

[Edited by - djsunyc on 07-06-2007 10:06 AM]
BigRedDog
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7/6/2007  10:09 AM
I think we needed a 2 or a 3 with a consistent outside shot. I know nichols is a rookie but what about him for some instant offense off the bench? I guess we will get our 1st impression of him in a couple of days. I am excited to see what the team looks like in the summer league.
fishmike 9/27/2024 11:00 PM Ug I hate this. The idea of Towns is great until you see what a pussy he is. Jules is a dog. DD was a flamethrower locked up cheap for 3 more years. First Leon move I hate
BRIGGS
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7/6/2007  10:11 AM
Posted by RemBee76:
If things work out with Zach--great if not I think we have much better goods to help improve the team.

Its a fair point, but when do we stop collecting assets and start building a team? In no way that I can think of does adding Randolph fit with the team concept we were building last season.

...And I think Curry becomes the asset we look to sell if things with Randolph don't work out. He may not be as well-rounded as Randolph overall (pun not intended) but he is a more dominant post scorer, slightly younger and a lot cheaper.

All right--to prove my point--how about this package--David Lee and Zach Randolph to Memphis for Pau Gasol--do you think memphis could find a better one? Im just using it as example but if I inserted Steve Francis there would be 0/100 chance.
RIP Crushalot😞
JohnWallace44
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7/6/2007  10:13 AM
I don't see why Eddy doesn't fit. If Frye was a more consistent scorer and a much better rebounder wouldn't you all be happy?

Well... that's what we got.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
djsunyc
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7/6/2007  10:13 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by RemBee76:
If things work out with Zach--great if not I think we have much better goods to help improve the team.

Its a fair point, but when do we stop collecting assets and start building a team? In no way that I can think of does adding Randolph fit with the team concept we were building last season.

...And I think Curry becomes the asset we look to sell if things with Randolph don't work out. He may not be as well-rounded as Randolph overall (pun not intended) but he is a more dominant post scorer, slightly younger and a lot cheaper.

All right--to prove my point--how about this package--David Lee and Zach Randolph to Memphis for Pau Gasol--do you think memphis could find a better one? Im just using it as example but if I inserted Steve Francis there would be 0/100 chance.

it depends, you wait another year and francis $16-18 mil expiring becomes VERY attractive. more attractive than zach...i think it's somewhat debateable.
BRIGGS
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7/6/2007  10:17 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by RemBee76:
If things work out with Zach--great if not I think we have much better goods to help improve the team.

Its a fair point, but when do we stop collecting assets and start building a team? In no way that I can think of does adding Randolph fit with the team concept we were building last season.

...And I think Curry becomes the asset we look to sell if things with Randolph don't work out. He may not be as well-rounded as Randolph overall (pun not intended) but he is a more dominant post scorer, slightly younger and a lot cheaper.

All right--to prove my point--how about this package--David Lee and Zach Randolph to Memphis for Pau Gasol--do you think memphis could find a better one? Im just using it as example but if I inserted Steve Francis there would be 0/100 chance.

it depends, you wait another year and francis $16-18 mil expiring becomes VERY attractive. more attractive than zach...i think it's somewhat debateable.

That depends on what was coming with that ending contract.I don't think many teams can beat thast package from a standpoint of talent and youth. You think an ending contract pick 6 and something else is more meaty than Lee and Randolph for a top tier type player?
RIP Crushalot😞
kam77
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7/6/2007  10:21 AM
Curry is bait. He makes little $$$ and has a couple years on his deal before he can opt out, which he will. I like that Isiah is still collecting assets (you guuys wanna go to war with this group as currently constructed? I don't). What did the Miami Heat do under riley before they drafted Wade? They collected a bunch of assets that allowed them to trade for the biggest difference maker in the game at the time.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
djsunyc
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7/6/2007  10:28 AM
Posted by kam77:

Curry is bait. He makes little $$$ and has a couple years on his deal before he can opt out, which he will. I like that Isiah is still collecting assets (you guuys wanna go to war with this group as currently constructed? I don't). What did the Miami Heat do under riley before they drafted Wade? They collected a bunch of assets that allowed them to trade for the biggest difference maker in the game at the time.

collecting assets is one thing, but building a team is another. you see, as of 2 weeks ago, this team was ALL about eddy. he was our building block and our future. we trade for a guy that could threaten that and now we have posts where he's expendable. it's a byproduct of picking late in 1st rounds and trading for risky players. we would be on a much more reliable and better path if we just kept our own picks and pared payroll but since isiah has taken so many risks, we are not comfortable with more than half the roster as set pieces moving forward.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 07-06-2007 10:29 AM]
RemBee76
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7/6/2007  10:44 AM
But Kam, this team still doesn't have its Wade.

DJ, not to speak for others who may have made comments about UK, but nothing I said is untrue, if controversial.

No one is talking about a "higher plane" of discussion, just some place where opposing opinions aren't shouted down by retorts that add little substance to the discussion and where posters aren't forced into a "homer" or "lover" camp (I don’t like the Randolph trade, am I still a homer?), where personal attacks are kept to a minimum (can’t speak for Chipstern of course), where things aren’t black and white but grey, where off-topic posts aren’t preceded by “O.T.” and simply, where the recent exchange on the thread that Misterearl initiated which had to be locked would never happen. Somewhere the prose and substance of discussion are at a different level. I know you recognize that, it’s why you used to participate in the Times.

And I know you get the “Cache” comment as well. I have yet to hear your “there’s only one way to build a team” concept challenged here as it was on the Times, no doubt because it was an opinion formed here and a consensus reached via the echo chamber of UK. Nothing wrong with that, so long as you know that it is an opinion that should be challenged.

My statements here were an invitation, maybe a clumsy one, but sincere nonetheless.
Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
djsunyc
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7/6/2007  10:49 AM
Posted by RemBee76:

But Kam, this team still doesn't have its Wade.

DJ, not to speak for others who may have made comments about UK, but nothing I said is untrue, if controversial.

No one is talking about a "higher plane" of discussion, just some place where opposing opinions aren't shouted down by retorts that add little substance to the discussion and where posters aren't forced into a "homer" or "lover" camp (I don’t like the Randolph trade, am I still a homer?), where personal attacks are kept to a minimum (can’t speak for Chipstern of course), where things aren’t black and white but grey, where off-topic posts aren’t preceded by “O.T.” and simply, where the recent exchange on the thread that Misterearl initiated which had to be locked would never happen. Somewhere the prose and substance of discussion are at a different level. I know you recognize that, it’s why you used to participate in the Times.

And I know you get the “Cache” comment as well. I have yet to hear your “there’s only one way to build a team” concept challenged here as it was on the Times, no doubt because it was an opinion formed here and a consensus reached via the echo chamber of UK. Nothing wrong with that, so long as you know that it is an opinion that should be challenged.

My statements here were an invitation, maybe a clumsy one, but sincere nonetheless.

listen man, once you figure out that i'm right and everybody else is horribly horribly horribly wrong, then the world is a peaceful place.

that whole sh t in the middle east is b/c nobody over there believes me when i say kelly is cuter than beyonce.

back to the matter at hand...

historically speaking, it's tough to find a double post offense that works without defense to fall back on. sampson/hakeem...duncan/robinson...can anybody think of any more? i think eventually, this season will bring that to light and curry may be gone after next year (as zach is infinitely a much better player offensively).
Marv
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7/6/2007  10:50 AM
Posted by RemBee76:

But Kam, this team still doesn't have its Wade.

DJ, not to speak for others who may have made comments about UK, but nothing I said is untrue, if controversial.

No one is talking about a "higher plane" of discussion, just some place where opposing opinions aren't shouted down by retorts that add little substance to the discussion and where posters aren't forced into a "homer" or "lover" camp (I don’t like the Randolph trade, am I still a homer?), where personal attacks are kept to a minimum (can’t speak for Chipstern of course), where things aren’t black and white but grey, where off-topic posts aren’t preceded by “O.T.” and simply, where the recent exchange on the thread that Misterearl initiated which had to be locked would never happen. Somewhere the prose and substance of discussion are at a different level. I know you recognize that, it’s why you used to participate in the Times.

And I know you get the “Cache” comment as well. I have yet to hear your “there’s only one way to build a team” concept challenged here as it was on the Times, no doubt because it was an opinion formed here and a consensus reached via the echo chamber of UK. Nothing wrong with that, so long as you know that it is an opinion that should be challenged.

My statements here were an invitation, maybe a clumsy one, but sincere nonetheless.

that's total bulls**t rembee. you don't recognize that misterearl brings every single bit of heat on himself? you don't recognize that his whole appoach is that of a provocateur who ends up . . . surprise! . . . provoking strong responses back at himself?
TMS
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7/6/2007  10:56 AM
Posted by franco12:

I thought the same thing after the Francis trade

so did I... & so did BRIGGS.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
RemBee76
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7/6/2007  11:00 AM
Posted by Marv:
you don't recognize that misterearl brings every single bit of heat on himself? you don't recognize that his whole appoach is that of a provocateur who ends up . . . surprise! . . . provoking strong responses back at himself?

I have yet to read a misterearl post that was about another poster, andn ot initially about basketball.

This is demonstrative of the problem here at UK...having an overall positive outlook on the Knicks is seen as being a "provocateur."

You guys are walking around with Staples "Easy" buttons just begging someone to pushe them, bring a little dissonance to the echo chamber here. What a provocation...someone is actually trying to make me think!


Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
Marv
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7/6/2007  11:04 AM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by Marv:
you don't recognize that misterearl brings every single bit of heat on himself? you don't recognize that his whole appoach is that of a provocateur who ends up . . . surprise! . . . provoking strong responses back at himself?

I have yet to read a misterearl post that was about another poster, andn ot initially about basketball.

This is demonstrative of the problem here at UK...having an overall positive outlook on the Knicks is seen as being a "provocateur."

You guys are walking around with Staples "Easy" buttons just begging someone to pushe them, bring a little dissonance to the echo chamber here. What a provocation...someone is actually trying to make me think!

you're in denial baby. earl baits and then attacks at anybody who takes it. his approach is to insinuate when anyone disagrees and then hide behind cute phrases or disappear for a few days when called on it.
franco12
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7/6/2007  11:06 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by franco12:

I thought the same thing after the Francis trade

so did I... & so did BRIGGS.

thanks- I thought I was having a deja vu like twilight zone moment. I'm glad I wasn't alone.

I only hope we're not stuck with a player we can't move.
BRIGGS
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7/6/2007  11:08 AM
Posted by franco12:

I thought the same thing after the Francis trade- other teams tried to get him (denver, supposedly) and I thought we could rehabilitate his trade value.

Granted, Francis had other baggage & was older.

And, I tend to hope the same thing- that if Zach doesn't work out, mid season he can be moved to a team like a dallas or phoenix.


Well if you were asking me [on any partiuclar team not just the Knicks] if I would trade Trevor Ariza Steve Francis and Channing frye for Zach Randolph--the answer is of course. The only tidbit is we *already* have a dominant low post scorer who needs to have more emphasis and more FGAs. Still its better to have Zach then the players I mentioned.
RIP Crushalot😞
nyk4ever
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7/6/2007  11:08 AM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by Marv:
you don't recognize that misterearl brings every single bit of heat on himself? you don't recognize that his whole appoach is that of a provocateur who ends up . . . surprise! . . . provoking strong responses back at himself?

I have yet to read a misterearl post that was about another poster, andn ot initially about basketball.

This is demonstrative of the problem here at UK...having an overall positive outlook on the Knicks is seen as being a "provocateur."

You guys are walking around with Staples "Easy" buttons just begging someone to pushe them, bring a little dissonance to the echo chamber here. What a provocation...someone is actually trying to make me think!

Apparently you're not reading any of his posts then.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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After thinking about the trade for a few days--there is no doubt in my mind
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