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Why all players IT brought to the Knicks are one-dimentional?
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arkrud
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6/29/2007  8:50 PM
OK - nobody want this kind of players and IT took what was vailable.
But I also think he is a puppet-master. He is not the man to work with complete players because they can overshadow his personality.
Knick should be Isiah team. Not Lee team, not KG team, not Kobe team.
Can you say Knicks are eddy team, marbs team, Zach team? This not even funny
His ego cannot accept any limitations.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
AUTOADVERT
Rich
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6/29/2007  8:52 PM
Because when you try to rebuild on the fly without cap room and few marketable assets, two way players aren't usally obtainable.
arkrud
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6/29/2007  8:59 PM
Posted by Rich:

Because when you try to rebuild on the fly without cap room and few marketable assets, two way players aren't usally obtainable.

So GM should continue with getting one-dimentional players forever?
How this make sense? This will never do any good.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Ira
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6/29/2007  9:03 PM
Randolph isn't one dimentional. He's one of five 20-10 players in the league.
arkrud
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6/29/2007  9:06 PM
Posted by Ira:

Randolph isn't one dimentional. He's one of five 20-10 players in the league.

So Zack can score and rebound. Actually 10 RPG for his size and position is nothing special.
But OK. I will give you this - he is better that Eddy.


[Edited by - arkrud on 06-29-2007 9:07 PM]

[Edited by - arkrud on 06-29-2007 10:00 PM]
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
franco12
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6/29/2007  9:17 PM
I think its less ego, and more of what is available for what we have had to offer.

If you look at his draft picks with the knicks- Balkman, Lee, Nate, Frye, Ariza & Collins- I'd say those players as a bunch are more well rounded than what he has traded for.
Silverfuel
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6/29/2007  9:18 PM
Posted by arkrud:
Posted by Ira:

Randolph isn't one dimentional. He's one of five 20-10 players in the league.

So Zack can score and rebound. Actually 10 RPG for his size and position is nothing special.
But OK. I will dive you this - he is better that Eddy.


[Edited by - arkrud on 06-29-2007 9:07 PM]
Typical anti-Isiah propaganda which has absolutely nothing to add. Zach, Marbury, Lee, Q and Crawford are all more than just one dimensional. If you mean you are looking for someone that plays offense and defense both, you are looking for an allstar. If you are talking stats, Marbury has pretty damn good stats and so does Lee and Zach.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Pharzeone
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6/29/2007  10:06 PM
Posted by arkrud:
Posted by Ira:

Randolph isn't one dimentional. He's one of five 20-10 players in the league.

So Zack can score and rebound. Actually 10 RPG for his size and position is nothing special.
But OK. I will give you this - he is better that Eddy.


[Edited by - arkrud on 06-29-2007 9:07 PM]

[Edited by - arkrud on 06-29-2007 10:00 PM]

You get a mulligan for 10 RPG thing. You can hate on Randolph's off the court issues, his lack of heart or his contract. But the guy is a legit 20 & 10 guy.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
arkrud
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6/29/2007  10:08 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by arkrud:
Posted by Ira:

Randolph isn't one dimentional. He's one of five 20-10 players in the league.

So Zack can score and rebound. Actually 10 RPG for his size and position is nothing special.
But OK. I will dive you this - he is better that Eddy.


[Edited by - arkrud on 06-29-2007 9:07 PM]
Typical anti-Isiah propaganda which has absolutely nothing to add. Zach, Marbury, Lee, Q and Crawford are all more than just one dimensional. If you mean you are looking for someone that plays offense and defense both, you are looking for an allstar. If you are talking stats, Marbury has pretty damn good stats and so does Lee and Zach.

OK
Zack - is scorer and avarage rebounder - no passing, no blocking shoots, no defense, no leadership, no character
Steph - is scorer and varage passer- no leadership, no character, avarage defense, no steals
Lee - good rebounder, avarage scorer, all the rest in the future may be
Q - good rebounder, stricky shooter, can defend lately - he is proobably the only one multidimensional player. actually was before his back broke
Craf - stricky scorer, good character, avarage passer, no defense, no rebounds.

I am not buying the argument that all multi-dimentional players are stars.
half of the league is multi-dimentional.


"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Bonn1997
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6/29/2007  10:13 PM
If you mean you are looking for someone that plays offense and defense both, you are looking for an allstar.
Only all-stars play both offense and defense?
Rich
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6/29/2007  10:13 PM
Posted by arkrud:
Posted by Rich:

Because when you try to rebuild on the fly without cap room and few marketable assets, two way players aren't usally obtainable.

So GM should continue with getting one-dimentional players forever?
How this make sense? This will never do any good.

I am not excusing it, I don't like it. I'm just offering an explanation.
nixluva
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6/29/2007  10:17 PM
Also there are PLENTY of one way All Star players. Many All Stars are not good defenders so right there is a problem with trying to bash the players Isiah has added. It's a team game and you have to find ways for guys to help the team succeed. Unless you're talking about Detroit and Chi, there aren't a lot of teams that have a LOT of 2 way guys on their roster. You also have to allow for some of our guys who have a chance to be 2 way players to fully develop.
arkrud
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6/29/2007  10:19 PM
Posted by Rich:
Posted by arkrud:
Posted by Rich:

Because when you try to rebuild on the fly without cap room and few marketable assets, two way players aren't usally obtainable.

So GM should continue with getting one-dimentional players forever?
How this make sense? This will never do any good.

I am not excusing it, I don't like it. I'm just offering an explanation.

I am not agaist you point. You defenetly right.
But any idiot can do this kind of GM job. Why people get payed millions for nothing?

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Rich
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6/29/2007  10:21 PM
Posted by nixluva:

Also there are PLENTY of one way All Star players. Many All Stars are not good defenders so right there is a problem with trying to bash the players Isiah has added. It's a team game and you have to find ways for guys to help the team succeed. Unless you're talking about Detroit and Chi, there aren't a lot of teams that have a LOT of 2 way guys on their roster. You also have to allow for some of our guys who have a chance to be 2 way players to fully develop.

I have defended Isiah as much as I reasonably could until now.

But I am tired of his bs. He said he wanted to get under the cap, and would do so in two years. Guess not.

He has no plan. Just a series of moves on the fly.
Bonn1997
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6/29/2007  10:22 PM
Posted by nixluva:

Also there are PLENTY of one way All Star players. Many All Stars are not good defenders so right there is a problem with trying to bash the players Isiah has added. It's a team game and you have to find ways for guys to help the team succeed. Unless you're talking about Detroit and Chi, there aren't a lot of teams that have a LOT of 2 way guys on their roster. You also have to allow for some of our guys who have a chance to be 2 way players to fully develop.
There's a difference between one way and one dimensional. You can be one-way and still good at several dimensions in that one "way" as Nash is outstanding at several things on offense and Ben Wallace is outstanding at several things on defense. Curry is not simply one way. He's one dimensional. (Zach is two-dimensional--scoring and rebounding.) Most "one way" players are not as bad in the other half of the game as Eddy and Zach are too.
Bonn1997
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6/29/2007  10:28 PM
Posted by Rich:
Posted by nixluva:

Also there are PLENTY of one way All Star players. Many All Stars are not good defenders so right there is a problem with trying to bash the players Isiah has added. It's a team game and you have to find ways for guys to help the team succeed. Unless you're talking about Detroit and Chi, there aren't a lot of teams that have a LOT of 2 way guys on their roster. You also have to allow for some of our guys who have a chance to be 2 way players to fully develop.

I have defended Isiah as much as I reasonably could until now.

But I am tired of his bs. He said he wanted to get under the cap, and would do so in two years. Guess not.

He has no plan. Just a series of moves on the fly.
I think it's all about bringing in immediate cash for the corporation running the team. Zach will surely sell more jerseys and get more new ticket purchases in the off season than Francis and Frye would. People were sick of those two. If Zach plays like he did in Portland, he'll at least be a more effective player (and bring in more revenue) than Frye and Francis did last year. True his contract lasts four years, but four years to Cablevision is like four centuries to us. They have stock holders to answer to immediately, which is more pressing than anything four years from now.
Rich
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6/29/2007  10:31 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Rich:
Posted by nixluva:

Also there are PLENTY of one way All Star players. Many All Stars are not good defenders so right there is a problem with trying to bash the players Isiah has added. It's a team game and you have to find ways for guys to help the team succeed. Unless you're talking about Detroit and Chi, there aren't a lot of teams that have a LOT of 2 way guys on their roster. You also have to allow for some of our guys who have a chance to be 2 way players to fully develop.

I have defended Isiah as much as I reasonably could until now.

But I am tired of his bs. He said he wanted to get under the cap, and would do so in two years. Guess not.

He has no plan. Just a series of moves on the fly.
I think it's all about bringing in immediate cash for the corporation running the team. Zach will surely sell more jerseys and get more new ticket purchases in the off season than Francis and Frye would. People were sick of those two. If Zach plays like he did in Portland, he'll at least be a more effective player (and bring in more revenue) than Frye and Francis did last year. True his contract lasts four years, but four years to Cablevision is like four centuries to us. They have stock holders to answer to immediately, which is more pressing than anything four years from now.

Probably, but since I'm a fan rather than a stockholder, my primary interest is in seeing them develop and execute an plan to build a team that will be in a position to win championships.

If some fans don't mind rooting for a pretender, that's their prerogative.
VDesai
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6/29/2007  10:33 PM
Before we go too far, Zach is not an average rebounder. He's an excellent rebounder. He finished 15th in the league in rebound rate. Better than guys like Ben Wallace, Amare Stoudemire, Pau Gasol etc.

http://www.knickerblogger.net/stats/2007/jh_ALL_REB.htm
Rich
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6/29/2007  10:35 PM
Posted by VDesai:

Before we go too far, Zach is not an average rebounder. He's an excellent rebounder. He finished 15th in the league in rebound rate. Better than guys like Ben Wallace, Amare Stoudemire, Pau Gasol etc.

http://www.knickerblogger.net/stats/2007/jh_ALL_REB.htm

The answer is to trade Curry.
nixluva
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6/29/2007  10:35 PM
It is true that Curry and Zach don't do enough in the many facets of the game. I think that what Isiah is looking for is the combination of their both stepping up their effort and getting more help from the other role players we have. That should be enough to make this thing work. This won't be the traditional formula, but it doesn't have to be. As a coach of any team you have to find ways to make the pieces fit and function. We have certain strengths and weaknesses as most teams do and we just have to find a way to win with our strengths. So far that's Scoring and pounding teams on the boards. With ZAch we've actually improved both of our strengths. We still have the same weaknesses, but i'm hopeful that we'll see some improvement this year as our young players from last year grow and the team as a whole improves it's chemistry over last year.
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