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Let's Put this Cap Nonsense to Rest
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TheSage
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6/29/2007  8:53 AM
Even if the knx were not to have made the trade for Randolph they would not have been significantly under the cap by 2010. Just resigning the young group of Frye, Lee, Balkman, Morris, Nate would have left them at the 50MM mark with Curry, Craw etc. This would not have left sufficiently under the cap to sign a major star in the 12-15 MM range to start.

I don't like Thomas, he's a con man who does know talent but is a poor team architect however give him some credit for this trade. He's added scoring and rebounding without giving up very much.

I've never seen this kid Nichols but from all indications can shoot the lights out. Anyone know if he's quick enough to play outside and guard the 2?
AUTOADVERT
BlueSeats
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6/29/2007  9:32 AM
Sage, when teams want to get under the cap - a proposition Isiah himself floated for the Knicks - they trade longer contracts for shorter ones. If a GM constructs a team with no players he is willing or able to do that with then his plan falls far short of his stated objective.
BasketballJones
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6/29/2007  9:36 AM
https:// It's not so hard.
BlueSeats
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6/29/2007  10:14 AM
Posted by BasketballJones:



Wooo, freakin heavy....

Rich
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6/29/2007  10:18 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:

Sage, when teams want to get under the cap - a proposition Isiah himself floated for the Knicks - they trade longer contracts for shorter ones. If a GM constructs a team with no players he is willing or able to do that with then his plan falls far short of his stated objective.

Exactly. It seems so obvious.
arkrud
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6/29/2007  10:22 AM
Posted by Rich:
Posted by BlueSeats:

Sage, when teams want to get under the cap - a proposition Isiah himself floated for the Knicks - they trade longer contracts for shorter ones. If a GM constructs a team with no players he is willing or able to do that with then his plan falls far short of his stated objective.

Exactly. It seems so obvious.

Math is a big problem in US education.
Not enough teachers and a lot of teachers are damm wrong...

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
nixluva
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6/29/2007  10:28 AM
No matter if it was Isiah looking for JO, KG, Kobe, Pau yadda yadda, that was NEVER off the table, just because he said he could get under the cap in two years. I think it's always a balancing act of wanting to keep your options open and saying something to give the media a bone to run with. If Isiah decides to basically lie to the media to keep his real thoughts close to the vest, so be it. If he couldn't have made the Randolph trade or any of the other less likely big trades then he would have had to go with the Cap space idea. I happen to think he could've done it, but that was always just one of his options.

We all knew that he would be very interested in adding a stud. He said many times that he felt the team was one star away and even if you don't like this move it made sense. Also there could be another move made. It's still very likely that Isiah isn't done.
nyk4ever
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6/29/2007  10:29 AM
Posted by nixluva:



We all knew that he would be very interested in adding a stud. He said many times that he felt the team was one star away and even if you don't like this move it made sense. Also there could be another move made. It's still very likely that Isiah isn't done.

It's always "Isiah may not be done yet" with you. When is Isiah going to be done? I'm still waiting for a real friggen team to take the court.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
arkrud
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6/29/2007  10:35 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by nixluva:



We all knew that he would be very interested in adding a stud. He said many times that he felt the team was one star away and even if you don't like this move it made sense. Also there could be another move made. It's still very likely that Isiah isn't done.

It's always "Isiah may not be done yet" with you. When is Isiah going to be done? I'm still waiting for a real friggen team to take the court.

Dreamon, Dreamon
It's so easy for you...

Nice song by the way



"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
nixluva
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6/29/2007  10:38 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by nixluva:



We all knew that he would be very interested in adding a stud. He said many times that he felt the team was one star away and even if you don't like this move it made sense. Also there could be another move made. It's still very likely that Isiah isn't done.

It's always "Isiah may not be done yet" with you. When is Isiah going to be done? I'm still waiting for a real friggen team to take the court.

Why should any team stop trying to improve? If Kobe is Isiah's target, should he not make an honest attempt to get him? I'm not saying it's realistic, but who knows what Isiah is thinking. Besides I didn't say that he was DEFINITELY gonna make another move, just that it's a strong possibility. I thought the idea was to try and build a Title team.
nyk4ever
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6/29/2007  10:41 AM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by nixluva:



We all knew that he would be very interested in adding a stud. He said many times that he felt the team was one star away and even if you don't like this move it made sense. Also there could be another move made. It's still very likely that Isiah isn't done.

It's always "Isiah may not be done yet" with you. When is Isiah going to be done? I'm still waiting for a real friggen team to take the court.

Why should any team stop trying to improve? If Kobe is Isiah's target, should he not make an honest attempt to get him? I'm not saying it's realistic, but who knows what Isiah is thinking. Besides I didn't say that he was DEFINITELY gonna make another move, just that it's a strong possibility. I thought the idea was to try and build a Title team.

Of course it's the idea but Isiahs move do not even come close to "building" a "title contender" They couldn't be anything further away from that.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
TheSage
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6/29/2007  12:16 PM
The longer contracts for shorter ones are designed for a teams to reduce the obligation so that they can get under the cap. But 1-any trade has to balance salaries within x% at the time of the trade without looking down the road and 2- if the object is to get under the cap you have to get under by enoiugh to offer a max contract in the initial year.
Andrew
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6/29/2007  12:21 PM
This trade really helped Portland's cap situation. If they play it right, they could build a very strong team.
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BlueSeats
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6/29/2007  12:35 PM
Posted by TheSage:

The longer contracts for shorter ones are designed for a teams to reduce the obligation so that they can get under the cap. But 1-any trade has to balance salaries within x% at the time of the trade without looking down the road and 2- if the object is to get under the cap you have to get under by enoiugh to offer a max contract in the initial year.


I think most people in this conversation are aware of that, and those constraints hold true for the many teams who effectively do get significantly under the cap, so what is your point in raising them?
newyorknewyork
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6/29/2007  1:07 PM
Posted by Andrew:

This trade really helped Portland's cap situation. If they play it right, they could build a very strong team.

They probably buy out Francis. They added Oden, Frye & Mcroberts to there frontcourt.
Oden/Frye
Aldridge/Mcroberts

Oden with 3 skilled big men around him. Frye or Mcroberts probably get moved for a SF though.
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
TMS
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6/29/2007  1:14 PM
Posted by TheSage:

Even if the knx were not to have made the trade for Randolph they would not have been significantly under the cap by 2010. Just resigning the young group of Frye, Lee, Balkman, Morris, Nate would have left them at the 50MM mark with Curry, Craw etc. This would not have left sufficiently under the cap to sign a major star in the 12-15 MM range to start.

I don't like Thomas, he's a con man who does know talent but is a poor team architect however give him some credit for this trade. He's added scoring and rebounding without giving up very much.

I've never seen this kid Nichols but from all indications can shoot the lights out. Anyone know if he's quick enough to play outside and guard the 2?

who's to say the Knicks would be obligated to re-sign guys like Frye, Morris, Nate to begin with? do you think for a second the Knicks would compromise their chances at a guy like Lebron or Kobe so that they could re-sign those guys? well, considering they just forfeited that chance by trading for Zach Randolph, maybe you have a point there.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
sebstar
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6/29/2007  1:15 PM
how many major free agent signings have their been in the last 5 years???...only one I can think of is Nash.

My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
TheSage
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7/1/2007  6:49 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by TheSage:

Even if the knx were not to have made the trade for Randolph they would not have been significantly under the cap by 2010. Just resigning the young group of Frye, Lee, Balkman, Morris, Nate would have left them at the 50MM mark with Curry, Craw etc. This would not have left sufficiently under the cap to sign a major star in the 12-15 MM range to start.

I don't like Thomas, he's a con man who does know talent but is a poor team architect however give him some credit for this trade. He's added scoring and rebounding without giving up very much.

I've never seen this kid Nichols but from all indications can shoot the lights out. Anyone know if he's quick enough to play outside and guard the 2?

who's to say the Knicks would be obligated to re-sign guys like Frye, Morris, Nate to begin with? do you think for a second the Knicks would compromise their chances at a guy like Lebron or Kobe so that they could re-sign those guys? well, considering they just forfeited that chance by trading for Zach Randolph, maybe you have a point there.
If you don't resign anybody you have an expansion team-I am just talking about resigning the players at the mid level exception or less.
raven
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7/1/2007  8:34 AM
Posted by sebstar:

how many major free agent signings have their been in the last 5 years???...only one I can think of is Nash.

I'm with you on this... People alwasy ask for going under the cap, like, hey let's go under the cap to sign lebron. THe same lebron that will use the knicks as a leverage to get more from and cleveland and never move.
misterearl
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7/1/2007  8:49 AM
raven - thank you

Worrying about the salary cap in New York is eqivalent to worrying about Paris Hilton.

It is a waste of time.

once a knick always a knick
Let's Put this Cap Nonsense to Rest

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